So many SunTour derailleurs
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So many SunTour derailleurs
Here's a SunTour derailleur I'd not heard of before:
https://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/bop/d/richmond-suntour-hero-shifter/7019369725.html
It's amazing how many variations on a theme SunTour produced considering how small the company was.
https://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/bop/d/richmond-suntour-hero-shifter/7019369725.html
It's amazing how many variations on a theme SunTour produced considering how small the company was.
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It wasn't that small: SunTour
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So true. Certainly fun to browse the Disraeli gear site.
These days its become an obsession to acquire and sample the older offerings from Suntour. Once you have them dialed in and or mildly improve (pulleys, cables, etc ) they all get the job done fairly well.
I've been tossing most of the older Shimano for older Suntour. The Viscount with Vx and Comp V is neato. Honor on another.
I still grin when shifting the lowly 4050 Edge group with oval rings on the Zunow. Flawless and never needs tweak adjustments. All the ballyhooey about Accushift just doesn't add up.
These days its become an obsession to acquire and sample the older offerings from Suntour. Once you have them dialed in and or mildly improve (pulleys, cables, etc ) they all get the job done fairly well.
I've been tossing most of the older Shimano for older Suntour. The Viscount with Vx and Comp V is neato. Honor on another.
I still grin when shifting the lowly 4050 Edge group with oval rings on the Zunow. Flawless and never needs tweak adjustments. All the ballyhooey about Accushift just doesn't add up.
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It wasn't that small: SunTour
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The wife's Fuji uses a Fuji branded Spirt up front and something in the rear, I'd have to look it up.
When I rebuilt my Kona Cinder Cone, I restored the complete XCD drivetrain, since a previous owner pitched the rear hub and cassette for an available Shimano FH-HG50 and 7 speed cassette. The rear shifting with the powercontrol thumbies was pretty sloppy. I agree, Accushift (with the right housing) works as well as I expect.
When I rebuilt my Kona Cinder Cone, I restored the complete XCD drivetrain, since a previous owner pitched the rear hub and cassette for an available Shimano FH-HG50 and 7 speed cassette. The rear shifting with the powercontrol thumbies was pretty sloppy. I agree, Accushift (with the right housing) works as well as I expect.
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Here we go. From Frank Berto's Sunset for SunTour:
The common feature of the problems was SunTour's small size. Their small development staff could not completely check out the outpouring of new models. Mountech and Superbe Tech were rushed to market with inadequate testing. In the early 1980s, when SunTour had 20 people working on research and development, Shimano had more than 200. By this time, Shimano had about 2000 employees compared to SunTour's 350.
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Try not to think about how many different models and versions of RD Shimano must have in production RIGHT NOW. I wouldn't be surprised if it were a hundred
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Have a Suntour Cyclone 7000 RD with new Sunrace 7 speed freewheel and Suntour Accushift Barcons on my 80's Schwinn Premis and it shifts like butta !
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I have Spirts on two bikes. And a couple more in reserve. I also have a collection of Symmetric shifters, both clamp on and braze on. The Spirt is my all time favorite fd.
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The amazing thing to me, having worked on dozens of different model Suntour RDs, is how very similar many of them are, yet how few parts they actually share in common. Mounting bolts and return springs in particular. They are so close, but no cigar between models like Vx, BL, Cyclone, VGT-Luxe, etc. Even between different years of the same model. Kind of nuts.
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Here we go. From Frank Berto's Sunset for SunTour:
The common feature of the problems was SunTour's small size. Their small development staff could not completely check out the outpouring of new models. Mountech and Superbe Tech were rushed to market with inadequate testing. In the early 1980s, when SunTour had 20 people working on research and development, Shimano had more than 200. By this time, Shimano had about 2000 employees compared to SunTour's 350.
That being said, I have Suntour Cyclone II derailleurs, crankset, pedals and brake levers on my Red Bianchi and I love them.
I also like Suntour's reverse-pull front derailleurs that pulled the chain onto the smaller chainring. Those are fantastic for those sudden hill or for when you run out of steam on a hill and want to shift to a smaller chainring.
Cheers
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The Hero is scarce for several reasons. First, it is a bottom of the barrel derailleur, even below the Honor. Second, it was introduced just when SunTour's fortunes were falling. Third, and most importantly, it was a friction derailleur in the era of indexing.
By 1986, which is the earliest year that I have seen Hero, Shimano had trickled down indexed shifting to the $250.00 price range, via their Light Action series. People who normally might not spend this much were enticed to spend a little more, just to get indexing. However, even friction equipped models in the lower ranges were more likely be outfitted with Shimano derailleurs, as the manufacturers wanted the leverage of higher volumes to get slightly better pricing on Shimano's trending indexed derailleurs.
By 1986, which is the earliest year that I have seen Hero, Shimano had trickled down indexed shifting to the $250.00 price range, via their Light Action series. People who normally might not spend this much were enticed to spend a little more, just to get indexing. However, even friction equipped models in the lower ranges were more likely be outfitted with Shimano derailleurs, as the manufacturers wanted the leverage of higher volumes to get slightly better pricing on Shimano's trending indexed derailleurs.
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The Hero is scarce for several reasons. First, it is a bottom of the barrel derailleur, even below the Honor. Second, it was introduced just when SunTour's fortunes were falling. Third, and most importantly, it was a friction derailleur in the era of indexing.
By 1986, which is the earliest year that I have seen Hero, Shimano had trickled down indexed shifting to the $250.00 price range, via their Light Action series. People who normally might not spend this much were enticed to spend a little more, just to get indexing. However, even friction equipped models in the lower ranges were more likely be outfitted with Shimano derailleurs, as the manufacturers wanted the leverage of higher volumes to get slightly better pricing on Shimano's trending indexed derailleurs.
By 1986, which is the earliest year that I have seen Hero, Shimano had trickled down indexed shifting to the $250.00 price range, via their Light Action series. People who normally might not spend this much were enticed to spend a little more, just to get indexing. However, even friction equipped models in the lower ranges were more likely be outfitted with Shimano derailleurs, as the manufacturers wanted the leverage of higher volumes to get slightly better pricing on Shimano's trending indexed derailleurs.
Cheers
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You need to find the steel SunTour rear derailleur that is normal large, meaning you pull the cable to move it from the larger cogs to the smaller ones, the reverse of normal RD action. The name escapes me now and I've only seen a couple in the metal. Skitter?
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Let me add that there's a plethora of anecdotes about successfully mixing 7 speed shifters but I don't think they were designed to be compatible. @pcb perhaps?
Last edited by clubman; 11-15-19 at 03:14 PM.
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Shimano re-introduced low normal rear derailleurs in 1999 and called the technology Rapid Rise. It was first introduced as an option on XTR but eventually spread to other ATB groups. It was not employed on road derailleurs as it was of considered to be beneficial primarily on wider range cassettes.
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They shared cable pull for the standard 6 speed indexing but not the 7's (or 8's?).
Let me add that there's a plethora of anecdotes about successfully mixing 7 speed shifters but I don't think they were designed to be compatible. @pcb perhaps?
Let me add that there's a plethora of anecdotes about successfully mixing 7 speed shifters but I don't think they were designed to be compatible. @pcb perhaps?
Cheers
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Sprocket spacing was always the same between 6s Suntour Accushift and 6s Shimano Accushift, but the derailer's actuation ratios and thus cable-pull were different, with Shimano SIS having the greater cable travel for each shift.
One exception is Shimano's pre-1997 (pre-9s) Dura-Ace derailers, whose actuation ratio was extremely similar (was considered compatible) to Suntour's 6s Accushift mech's.
Yet another exception would be Suntour's 6s, 3040 series shifters/derailers, which featured greater cable travel for each shift than other Accushift derailers (thus being more similar to Shimano's non-Dura-Ace derailers).
Perhaps Suntour's 3040 series parts are fully compatible with Shimano's 6s parts, I haven't actually tried this however!
Greater cable travel reduces the movement error (hysteresis) that is caused by the combined friction and elasticity along any given length of cable and housing.
So the trend toward derailers having lower cage-to-cable actuation ratio's was led initially around 1985 by the first Shimano 600 SIS gruppo, and later (and further) by various off-road component groups/derailers (beginning around 1998 with SRAM's so-called "1:1" or "ESP" derailers), where dirtier operating conditions had made the change toward narrower sprocket spacing problematic in terms of indexing accuracy.
The road gruppos have more recently followed suit with derailers having lower actuation ratios, beginning with SRAM's 10s "Exact Actuation" models, later followed by Shimano's 11s (and also 10s Tiagra) gruppos.
One exception is Shimano's pre-1997 (pre-9s) Dura-Ace derailers, whose actuation ratio was extremely similar (was considered compatible) to Suntour's 6s Accushift mech's.
Yet another exception would be Suntour's 6s, 3040 series shifters/derailers, which featured greater cable travel for each shift than other Accushift derailers (thus being more similar to Shimano's non-Dura-Ace derailers).
Perhaps Suntour's 3040 series parts are fully compatible with Shimano's 6s parts, I haven't actually tried this however!
Greater cable travel reduces the movement error (hysteresis) that is caused by the combined friction and elasticity along any given length of cable and housing.
So the trend toward derailers having lower cage-to-cable actuation ratio's was led initially around 1985 by the first Shimano 600 SIS gruppo, and later (and further) by various off-road component groups/derailers (beginning around 1998 with SRAM's so-called "1:1" or "ESP" derailers), where dirtier operating conditions had made the change toward narrower sprocket spacing problematic in terms of indexing accuracy.
The road gruppos have more recently followed suit with derailers having lower actuation ratios, beginning with SRAM's 10s "Exact Actuation" models, later followed by Shimano's 11s (and also 10s Tiagra) gruppos.
Last edited by dddd; 11-17-19 at 12:37 PM.