powell

e biker,
he wants you to measure total battery voltage on main batt terminals attached to bottom board. .
You cannot just measure batt voltage on power wires coming out off hub, there are pair of discharge MOSFETs between 30 cells in series and power wires coming out off hub.
Do you have cells for rebuild?

e_biker

I live in Los Angeles. This is my E+. I would never want to sell it. I really want to fix it. I have read this thread thoroughly. Wrandy, you are obviously a wealth of knowledge. Powell, I am amazed at what you did with your E+. You know way more about electronics than I will ever understand. I am quick to learn, and any assistance either of you might be in my attempt to get my beloved E+ running again would be greatly appreciated. By the way, it says 750w, but is the 1000w. I bought a floor demo model from them, and it was sold to me at a discount.

e_biker

No cells for rebuild. I would have to hack something together, if possible...or I could buy from you, if you would sell them to me.

powell

e biker ,
you are not only one calling EPLUS beloved, that's the second time I hear it from owner.
before discussing your repair farther....

Hell, there must be hundreds of EPLUSes especially in wealthy California with dead hub batteries, how to find one???
Nobody will advertise non-working ebike on Craglist?

powell

e biker
can you tell me what the numbers on your motor sticker?

e_biker

The sticker says 750w, but it is 1000w. This bike was used in Rick's shop at Electric Motion Systems. I called them looking for a deal in the summer of 2010. They put me in touch with Rick, and I ended with this bike. Before I modified it with downhill mountain bike rims, it went 35mph on the stock rims. The stock rims were thrashed within months, and after that I opted to go with durability over speed.

Is it possible to replace the cells inside the 5 pack modules? Has anyone attempted this?

powell

no,
sticker between spokes, no on the side of motor

e_biker

It's not there. It fell off.

powell

I don't believe any 1000W E+ will go on its own 35mph, with crazy pedalling maybe.
You must remember that that due to faulty software alogarytm Eplus displays accurate speed up to maybe 15mph, behond that is displays 2,3,4,5 mph faster than it goes.
I verified it 3 times with GPS.
On two different Eplus 1000W drives.

e_biker

Sorry just reread your post. I did get the readings from the E+ console. I did not know they were inaccurate.

I did 35mph, and routinely hit 30mph. 35mph was hard pedaling into a steep decline.

powell

How did you measure speed?
I measured by HOLUX brand GPS on two different 1000W drives.
Anyway max speed here is so subjective depends on so many factors like wind, weight of rider, tires,etc.,etc.
But the fact ebike drive on JUST 36V can reach 28mph on its own/no pedalling/ is remarkable!!
You see we don 't know what software is loaded on your motor controller, dash 1, or dash 2.
You say it was 2010 ,only 5 years ago , you might have dash 3 software which allows for it.
Again, how did you measure speed?

powell

inside 5 cell subpacks, replace cells?
if you have access to cold welder and know how to do it - yes it is possible.
EPLUS uses the highest quality NMH cells - SAFT brand.
But there are still Nickel cells with low terminal voltage and high internal resistance.

e_biker

I would not cold weld the jumpers back in place. I would find an alternate method of adhering them while still maintaining excellent contact.

Sound like it is possible. I am going to try to do this. I will attack the rear side of the hub and try and free the string soon. For now, I have other things to do. I'll update my progress soon.

powell

remember my offer , you can have 30, or 60 cells for free if you find me 1000W EPLUS /complete, not complete, dead batteries/ and I buy from him.
I don't need those cells for anything.
We in Canada cannot really advertise on US Craglist?

e_biker

Thanks for the offer , but I'm going to fix this thing if I can. My plan is to salvage what cells I can from the original build. then I will supplement with how ever many new cells I need. Had a little more free time, so I removed the battery compartment.

wrandyr

@powell-
Are you saying craigslist won't let you post an ad in the USA because you are in Canada? If so, I would be happy to post one for you if I can.

I know of 3 other E+ systems in my town, none of the owners want to sell. There were four, but one was stolen, without the controller or charger. It is probably in a dump now. Pity.

The speed calculations are never going to be really good because E+ didn't allow a means of specifying the actual wheel+tire circumference. I am using 29 inch wheels, so mine is always off since they assumed 26 inch wheels. That said, I'm not sure it's such a good idea to go 30+ mph on a bike. The E+ system is heavy and introduces loads on the bike components that are going to be beyond the usual design expectations. I was going about 32mph (downhill, -1 regen) last week and had to stop suddenly. The brakes worked fine, but the back tire couldn't hold it's grip and started to skid. It took a lot longer to stop than I would have liked.

This is total conjecture on my part, but I suspect that all of the E+ motors are 1000W. I think the ones sold as 750W have a governor circuit enabled in the controller that cuts the power at 20mph. Moot point, because there doesn't seem to be a way to get around it.

@ e_biker-
I know how to sound like I know more than I really do. Powell has a much better understanding, and I have learned a lot from him. I have a recollection of seeing somewhere that the battery cells or modules were matched sets. I don't know what that means, or how much difference it really makes. I think if you look around, you should be able to find a specialty battery company that could fabricate the modules for you. It won't be cheap. I wouldn't give up on your existing cells just yet, but if they turn out to be beyond salvage, I think I would try Powell's conversion to LiFePo batteries before trying to replicate the original NiMH setup.

awm72

the craigslist in Vermont shows stuff from Canada. I wonder if there is a Craigslist version for Canadians? their ads even get right down to physical street addresses(with a detailed google-ish map).

e_biker

I'm going to stick with the original configuration because of cost. It will be interesting to see what condition individual cells are. Breaking down the battery module is simple.

wrandyr

I looked into craigslist, and it seems that they want to function as a localized service. There is no free way of posting over multiple areas, although there are services that will do it for you. Craigslist uses your IP address to determine your location, so if you spoof your IP, you could post in another region. Still, it would be a lot of work to do a lot of cities. I'll try some tests to see how far away I can post. I might be able to get something into the Los Angeles area. We should consider what would happen next if someone were to respond. A lot of people are not going to be able to pack a bike for shipping, or even strip off the parts you want. The less convenient it is to get it to you, the more you are going to have to pay. How much is it going to be worth to you?

wrandyr

You might have to loan me some batteries to get my bike to go 100 miles

Here is another possibility: Backpage.com seems to allow listings from anywhere. It is obvious that they don't get as much traffic as craigslist, but that means your ad would stay visible longer.

Also, I saved a copy of the E+ website, which has a list of dealers. I would think those cities would be the ones to target.

Firedog91902

E Biker

A few day ago a dealer in Encinitas, CA had a Tidal Force front wheel (battery), rear wheel (1000w hub) and the controller module on CL for $300. No mention of charger. He said the battery is bad, but the rest is good. The listing is gone, so it may have sold. I don't know if a Tidal Force would help you anyway.

My 1000w E+ had a dead, un-chargeable battery when I got it. Even though most of the cell were 0 volt, individually, they all took a charge current. I charged them individually until they reached 1.2v (it didn't take long) and then connected the E+ charger to the whole battery. It's worked ever since although self discharge always a problem with NiMH. After a month, most of the capacity is gone. When freshly charged, my NiMH battery no longer has the rated 10AH but if the load is kept in the 300/400w range or less it will deliver 8AH. I use Lithium NMC tool batteries in parallel with the E+ battery, so even at 1000w (full power), the E+ battery is reporting less than 300 watts. The rest come from the tool batteries which are capable an amazing 60A at 36V = 2000w+!! Normal cruising (20mph, flat, me pedal) it draws less than 200 watts from the E+ battery so I get over 30 miles; more if I slow down a bit.

If you can't get your E+ battery to charge, I would suggest scraping it and converting to Li power. Powell has done all the hard work and documented it well. I'm sure he would help with any questions. Eventually, I too will get rid of the NiMH hub on my E+. It is sooo heavy.

One word of caution if you decide to purchase replacement NiMH D cells. I bought a "new" 10AH D cell on Ebay. I wanted to test, before buying 30. It came 0 volts and it wouldn't take a charge regardless of the voltage applied. The seller immediately issued a refund and didn't want the cell returned. I did an autopsy. The only thing new, was the shrink wrap and the thin nickel top and bottom. Underneath, the actual cell ends still had the spot weld marks from being ripped out of and old battery. Inside, the cell was bone dry. It is interesting that once a refund is issued on Ebay, the case is closed. You can't review the item or give feed back about the seller. He is still selling them and probably most work marginally. Usually, the buyer has no way to test that they are old.

powell

Firedog,
I want to buIld another EPLUS as my winter ride - are we not tired to switch tires every year ???
Thank you for telling me about Tidal Force , but I need 1000W EPLUS.
It might take year if not more than year for me to come accross one.
Firedog,

can you have a look at your motor and read sticker between spokes on the motor?
what does it says?

Firedog91902

Powell,
No switching tires in SoCal. I have to trim the palm trees once in a while. First pic is my E+ set up for the street. 100psi 26x1.5 tires. 50/11 top gear. The 2p2s Makita tool batteries add 9ah @ 36v to the NiMH front hub battery. With that gearing, I can pedal assist at 25 to 30mph and I get a very decent range.

What do the numbers mean on the rear hub label?

I've read much of your posts on removing the NiMH hub and moving the hub electronics to a box; using only Lithium power. Have you sorted that out completely using only the E+'s electronics? I'd like to get rid of the NiMH weight as well, but don't want to mess up the great controls and reliability of the bike as it sits now.

Another approach would be to use a different controller with the E+ motor hub. It looks to me that the E+ motor has 3 power wires in and 5 or 6 wires connected to the Hall effect sensors. I read somewhere the motor was 5 phase, but I don't understand how that is possible. Is there a power controller board inside the hub motor?

I use a 36V 800w Chinese kit on tandems with great success. Not as quite and smooth as the E+ and the only control is the throttle but it is very usable. The controller limits the amps to 30, so if you have decent batteries the hub actually delivers over 1000 watts. Great power. After 2 or 3k miles, no issues so far. The Chinese hub also has 3 power wires in with 5 Hall effect control wires. It runs even with out the hall effect sensors connected but not as smoothly. The chinese hub is 3 phase. Other than quality, how is the Chinese hub different from the E+?

Would the controller from the Chinese kit, possible work with the E+ hub? The whole kit (26" tire, wheel, hub. controller, throttle, brake levers, and nice bag) is $167 (no tax or shipping). Connecting the E+ hub to the Chinese controller, and throttle, would be a snap. The left over Chinese hub motor/wheel would be a nice backup for my tandem. Any thoughts?

powell

at:
tires pumped 38-40PSI /absolutely max, even 50PSI would have been crazy/,me 66kg, zero wind , no areo bars but , wearing slick jacket, temperature above 10C /summer morning-warm morning/. Once temperature drops speed drops almost linear, the lower I lean on handelbars -speed increase. But after hammering it on Lithium for like 10 minutes on streets early weekend morning motor gets warm.
It is so many varables here
so if somebody post :
" can reach 30mph " with NO condition it is useless to me.

powell

[QUOTE=Firedog91902;19127887]E Biker


" My 1000w E+ had a dead, un-chargeable battery when I got it. Even though most of the cell were 0 volt, individually, they all took a charge current. I charged them individually until they reached 1.2v (it didn't take long) and then connected the E+ charger to the whole battery ""

you see, there are plenty of non-technical owners all over USA who would never do it and even opening front hub would be challenge to them. one false gesture/movement and short destroys battery electronics.
How do I know it? I destroyed DC/DC converter on upper board which steps down from 36V to 5V to supply chips and it was PaininTHE a...to repair it.
Once cell or two get reversed polarity no amount of charging will recover 30 cells.