vins0010

I'm looking to build another wheelset, having previously built a three sets with Shimano Ultegra hubs. I like the hubs but am tired of repacking them with new grease and bearings. I'm wondering what the cartridge-equivalent of the ultegra hubs would be. Thanks.

mrrabbit 

1. Why is packing grease such a biggy? Shouldn't have to do it more than once a year. Some folks will go two.

2. Loose ball bearing hubs are a tolerant of droputs that are slightly off. Cartridge bearings hub based on M10 axle dimensions are intolerant - bearing destruction within a few rides is possible.

3. Formula, Novatech (Joytech), Chosen A1126 and A5127s, plus many more. Pick 'em.

=8-)

Eric S.

I don't *need* any new wheels, but I'd love to have a set of wheels built with Velo Orange cartridge bearing hubs, or their complete wheels with those shiny rims.

Hub selection:
https://store.velo-orange.com/index.p...hubs/hubs.html

Ease-of-service freehub video:
https://vimeo.com/33367169

fietsbob

C King, & Phil all use their own axles..and freehubs,
but, all service parts are available.

shelbyfv

I am interested in this as well. My experience is that one rainy century ride will necessitate having to re-grease and readjust Ultegra hubs. I like the idea of hubs that can be easily broken down, freehub removed etc. Also would like readily available standard sized cartridge bearings, well machined flanges and Ultegra prices as opposed to PW and CK.

HillRider

This seems very odd. I have used 105, Ultegra, Dura Ace and Campy hubs on my bikes over the years and all are loose bearing, cup-and-cone types. Once a year overhauls are all they need, even on the "rain bike" that is routinely used in bad weather. The Dura Ace hubs have over 50,000 miles on them with all original parts and have been ridden in many, many rainy rides and not needed extra maintenence after any of them. Several of the other hubs have 20,000 to over 30,000 miles in all kinds of weather with no damage or wear using the same maintenance schedule.

I would offer one suggestion; use PLENTY of grease. I use Phil grease but there are many other good, suitable brands. I pack the bearings with what many consider a large excess of grease when I overhaul them. The excess oozes out for the first couple of rides and I have to wipe it off but it forms a good seal between the hub internals and the dust caps and does a good job of keeping water and dirt out.

reddog3

I'm with Hillrider on this. One thing I suggest- if you are building wheels with a new aftermarket Shimano hub service it before being put into use.

fietsbob

With water intrusion as the worry..
How about use Mountain free-Hubs, they seem to put rubber boots
over the ends of the hubs , even at the lower price point
boat trailer wheel bearing grease

ThermionicScott 

Repacking hubs is therapeutic.

Kimmo

Shimano hubs are the best you can buy as far as I'm concerned. At least, their rear hubs are fundamentally superior to anyone else's. Theirs is the only true freehub; there is no equivalent.

Way better value than anyone else too - if you get a good price on a s/h set of Ultegra or DA hubs, they'll make anything else look like a bad joke, for the money.

Loose balls FTW.

shelbyfv

The hub I had the problem with was straight from the factory and probably did not have enough grease to begin with. When I serviced the hub I used lots of the green Park grease and wiped off the excess for several rides. Thanks for the info.

vins0010

Hmmm...so I guess I should just buck up, keep getting the Shimanos, and just re-pack once a year. Yeah, it isn't a big deal, I guess, but, for some reason, I really hate repacking hubs. I think I even prefer removing a cassette and cleaning it with a toothbrush and solvent. Those Velo hubs look tempting. If you go cartridge, it looks like getting ones with easily obtainable and replaceable cartridges is also a consideration.

mrrabbit 

If you hate dealing with the grease....

1. Get a dental syringe used for rinsing from your dentist.
2. Cut off half of the tip for a 1/8" bead.
3. Fill 3/4 with Park Tool grease...pack it in using your finger.
4. Use it as a grease gun - be sure to retract plunger a tad when done so it doesn't run a little out.

Good for 8-10 top offs or about 3-4 complete overhauls...

All you are using a rag or towel for is wiping out old grease, and wiping off the new that leaks when spinning the hub after an overhaul.

=8-)

Drew Eckhardt 

Or trade up to Campagnolo Record hubs and their Shimano compatible freehub that's sold separately.

Record hubs come with grease ports where the official recommendation (c 2006) is to lubricate (with a grease gun) every 1200-3000 miles and only disassemble for service every 6000-12000 miles.

Campagnolo is one of very few companies other than Shimano which coins their spoke holes.

Freehub pawls and springs are also sold separately so if you some how manage to wear them out you don't need to buy a whole new freehub.

Both cones and cups are available as replacement parts so worn out cups don't require a new hub and wheel rebuild.

Kimmo

No such thing as a non-Shimano freehub, though.

The rest are pretend. They're cassette hubs, no more.

Just watch everyone worth a damn rush to the Shimano design when their patent expires.

HillRider

A larger commercial version of the same "tool" is the Dualco grease gun available from several places like Bike Tools Etc. and, I believe, Harbor Freight sells a knockoff. It holds 4 oz of any grease and meters it neatly and without waste where ever you need it. It also keeps your hands out of the tub of bulk grease so you don't contaminate it. It also lets you buy grease in large tubes or tubs which is much cheaper per ounce than the small bike shop tubes.

https://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cg...item_id=DU-LG1

cyccommute 

Lots of people...including me...use cartridge on lots of different bikes. I seldom hear of 'bearing destruction within a few rides'. In fact I've never heard of it.

Over 30 years of riding, I've had 10 or 15 cartridge bearing hubs and I've had a single bearing failure which was quickly remedied with a new cartridge. That failure was also after thousands of miles of riding with zero maintenance. I've had many loose ball bearings and I've lost count of the number of failures I've experienced with them. Some of those...the ones where the hub cup was pitted...lead to complete failure of the wheel.

vins0010: Pricey cartridge bearing hubs are Phil Wood, Chris King, White Industries, DT Swiss, etc. Velo Orange hubs are moderately priced. The Formula and Novatech are less pricey. In terms of quality, the Wood, King and similar are lovely jewels that are tough as nails and heirloom quality. The others descend in quality but are serviceable and will last as long as a set of Shimano hubs will...which is a long time.

mrrabbit 

Note that I specified cartridge bearing hubs built around an M10 axle spec...

Most manufacturers of quality sealed cartridge bearing have come up with various ways to enlarge the axle diameter between the dropout in an attempt to stave off the non-linear pressure applied by quality dropouts when the quick releases are closed. It does work to an extent.

When I first bought my wife's Diamondback Apex in 2002, supposedly a bike that retailed for about $900.00, I put in a brand spanking new set of Chosen A5027 / A1026 sealed cartridge bearing hubs. Think old Ringles or Bullseyes built around an M9/M10 spec. Immediately after her first ride of about 20 miles - the rear wheel became sticky. Took the wheel off - non-drive bearing literally destroyed.

Took the bike down to the LBS for a dropout check - the left dropout on a brand new factory bike was off by a good 7-10 degrees at least. If you had see it yourself - you would have been shaking your head like me. Shop owner was shocked - pissed actually. So was I. We went ahead and straightened it out - fingers crossed that the rather beefy alloy dropout wouldn't break.

I also had to replace both bearings. Since then, the hubs which get about 200-300 miles per year have been functioning perfectly smooth.

On Sutherland's 5th Edition, page 10-7, Sutherland's lays out an entire "cartridge bearing" page with a caution regarding cartridge bearing alignment and how flex and loading aggravate things for M8 through M10 axles. Of particular interest is the exception made for Phil Wood axles - which of course are of a whole different material level and design.

=8-)

fietsbob

The driver under the cassette, getting that mech to roll on cartridge bearings.
that is over half the design chore , since it's both axle
and carrying the torque to drive the bike forward...

Phil freewheel hubs have been good for me, the rigid axle, never bends.
bent axles was one of the things putting the bearings further out
on the end of the freehub driver was meant to solve.

DCB0

I rode for one summer on Novatec road hubs w four cartridge bearings and they were, IMO, crap. Perhaps it is because I am heavier and/or stronger than most, but they creaked and popped and skipped from day one. I assume it was because of the faux-freehub system that relied on the axle to hold the whole thing together and aligned.

Shimano hubs are the bees knees. You should not have to repack after one long rainy ride… I certainly don’t.

IF you want something as good quality as Shimano Ultegra but don’t want Shimano, you are going to pay for it. If you want a basic inexpensive training wheelset, then get whatever you can find for cheap. But Shimano hubs are superior to all but the best cartridge bearing hubs.

Kimmo

Yes. Someone else sees the light.

They're arguably superior to all other hubs from a design perspective, if not in practice.

mrrabbit 

Spot on...

Chosen A1126 and Chosen 5127

About 18.00 and 35.00 by the time they reach US. Distributor to retailer becomes about 30.00 and 50.00. Retailer is gonna charge about 50.00 and 85.00 for a whopping 135.00 before tax. And course, the distributor and retailer may not have a freehub replacement option for you 3 years out. (Unlike myself...)

=8-)

You want non-Shimano BUT quality - you're gonna pay no matter what.

=8-)

Drew Eckhardt 

Utility patents filed before June 1995 were good for 17 years. Those filed after last 20 years from the date of filing to harmonize US patent lifetimes with Europe, Japan, and other places. The Shimano outboard bearing design dates to around 1980 which makes the patent expired and people aren't copying it en masse.

With high-quality steels and 10mm axles the inferior inboard axle design is sufficient. Plenty of riders growing through middle age have proved that with thirty trouble free years on Campagnolo 8-speed C-Record hubs. It doesn't work so well with cheap pot metal.

With larger diameter axles it's overkill - at a given weight and length a hollow object's stiffness (where the number of fatigue cycles survived is a function of the stress cycle magnitude resulting from deflection) is roughly proportional to the square of its diameter making a similar weight 15mm axle 2.25 times the stiffness. Keeping the same wall thickness and allowing weight to increase nets a cubic relation for 3.375 times the stiffness.

That's enough that you can get away with aluminum (which does not like being flexed) and bad steel not an issue.

For over a decade quality hubs have been built with axles larger than 10mm rear / 9mm front with the ends turned down to standard drop-out dimensions.

Dave Mayer

I don't get this. Repacking a Shimano hub takes 15 minutes and is required about once per year. Unless you are using your bike to play underwater polo.. Driving in a rainstorm with your bike on a rack is another surefire way to blast all the grease out of the bearings. As is giving a newbie mechanic a can of WD-40, or a pressure washer.

Going beyond the fact that Shimano cassette hubs have the best design in the business, Shimano hubs are quite well sealed; their better mountain hubs likely have the best water/dirt protection - period. If you think that cartridge bearing hubs are better sealed, think again. Most non-Shimano hubs (including Campagnolo cassette hubs) have freehubs that let a lot of contaminants past the ratchet seal.

If your plan is to run a hub until the cartridges fail, then it will actually take you more time and more cost to extract out of the hub, and then track down some obscure 1-RS50XY bearings from every shop in town, than spending the 15 minutes per year to replace a little grease.

davidad

The seals in radial and cup-and-cone bike bearings are dust seals and are not able to keep out water. The shimano and old Suntour freehubs were and still are the best on the market. According to Park tool even radial (cartridge) bearings should be serviced at aabout the same interval.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/free-k7.html