barkersoldbean

We have just got back after 10 days touring around Valbonne in the South of France.

Whilst it was great with some superb rides, my wife (the stoker) kept complaining about a sore bum!

Pretty frequent requests to stand out of the saddle (which wasn't popular going up Col De Vence).

Currently she is on a Fizik Vesta saddle (has the cut out channel) with Asos shorts and has been properly fitted to the bike by an ex TDF bike specialist (Adrian Timis) = it doesn't seem to be a shorts or geometry issue?

It would appear (after some delicate questioning) that it isn't chaffing pain but just soreness around the sit bones.

She is light (50kg) so probably not a lot of padding in the bottom area!

Any suggestions for saddles to look at?

(I was thinking i might try her on something a bit less "racy" - more "touring" like a Brookes?)

twocicle

If a person has trained a lot on a particular saddle, sit bone soreness is not usually a padding issue, but rather due to the width of the saddle where those bones rest. Many mfr offer only one width/size per model, while some like Specialized offer multiple sizes of the same model. Although we have tried measuring sit bone width, our fit success came from trying out various models out on the road.

My stoker gave a fail to various models of Terry FLX, Specialized and Selle SMP, finally settling on a Terry Butterfly Carbon (not only lightweight but also firmer padding than her old worn out Butterflys). Although she is petite w/small hips and a featherweight, narrower saddles just did not work for her sit & privates, plus a key problem was upper hamstring soreness (just at the bottom of the butt cheeks) due to typically widely flared rear saddle sections (typical of "womens" saddles).

It's a bit of a crap shoot

JanisXenith

Try Rivet Cycle Works : Diablo Model.

rivetcycleworks

My stoker/SO is only 45 kg - close to yours. Diablo is a leather touring saddle with a split, with a small size perfect for small riders. I myself have purchased the larger Rivet Pearl model for bigger butts. I also own a Sella Anotomica and was first trying to find their smallest saddle, however I was pointed to the Rivet which has some better features like having the leather connect underneath so that the flanges don't run the leg. The leather on the Rivet seems thicker and more robust.

At the moment my stoker/SO also puts a gel padding layer from Target over the Rivet - but she says the Rivet-gel padding is the combo for her - much better that previous saddle with same gel padding layer from Target on top. We have gone on a few 100 miles rides and she is smiling so I guess I have to respect her judgement, even though I find it difficult to accept that a gel pad is helpful in the long run.

The leather saddle concept is basically a hammock, which is entirely different from saddles which are solid with some degree of cushioning.

DubT

John Cobb has done extensive research on the subject of saddles for women. Cobb Cycling | Saddle | Comfort | Speed

He and his wife are very helpful and knowledgeable about the subject of saddles for women and he will work with you/her, he also has a 90 day satisfaction guarantee. We both ride his saddles. You might consider sending him an email.

Machka 

If you ever want to find out whether a saddle is good or not, put it on the back of a tandem and ride as stoker. That's the test!

I can ride thousands of kilometres on my single bicycle and not even notice my saddle, but I have yet to be truly comfortable over long distances on the tandem.

One of the key factors is this ... when we ride our single bicycles, we move. We can stand whenever we want, we can shift slightly to the left or right or back or forth. We don't necessarily think about it, or even particularly notice it, it is just something we do.

But when we ride as stoker, we can't move. Even subtle movements can affect the other person and the handling of the bicycle. So we freeze to the spot until it gets so painful we just have to stand or something.

IMO it has less to do with the saddle (although getting a good saddle definitely helps) and has more to do with incorporating movement into the ride.

One of the things Rowan and I do is to coast and stand about every 10 min. We also get off the tandem about once every 45 min or so, and I stretch out my back and hamstrings. That helps ... doing that has allowed me to ride a 300 km randonnee on a tandem. We're also working on ways I can shift my position ever-so-slightly without affecting the handling too much, and without having to stand.

2frmMI

Same here. In fact, I gave her (ca. 68 kg, 178 cm) a new one last Christmas since the one she had been riding for many years was getting old - cover started cracking, foam was getting hard, etc.
We both tried the Cobb saddles (I believe the model is the "Plus") on our new Paketa. OK but not great for me, totally unusable for stoker despite every imaginable adjustment/tweak. I ended up going back to my B-17, she to her Terry ButterFly Carbon. I snoozed on returning the Cobbs in the 90 day so now have 2 barely used that I'd part with at a reasonable price, so PM if interested. Mine has perhaps 150 miles, hers less than 25.

Machka 

And yet ... for me ... the Terry Butterfly is the second worst saddle I've ever ridden. I couldn't manage 20 km on that saddle as stoker. We had to ride the last few km of that test ride standing up about once a minute. So agonisingly painful.

It is worth experimenting with saddles and selecting one you can live with. We're all different. For me the men's standard Brooks B17 with Thudbuster seatpost works best.

But as I mentioned above, incorporating movement into the ride is also crucial.

barkersoldbean, you mentioned "pretty frequent requests to stand out of the saddle", especially while climbing ...

I find two situations to be particularly painful.

1) Ghost pedalling, such as when approaching lights to avoid stopping, for some reason the lack of resistance on the pedals means my full weight is on the saddle and that is pure torture. It just highlights how much weight I have on the pedals most times.

2) Climbing. When I climb by myself, I shift around quite a bit and lift myself just slightly off the saddle quite frequently. When we climb with the tandem, we sit all the way up, and I don't shift around or lift myself off the saddle, and by the time we're just cresting the climb, I'm about ready to leap off the bicycle. I suppose the solution might be to learn to climb while standing, but we haven't got there yet.

B. Carfree

My wife, who rides captain, was also having a tough time with saddles a couple of years ago. She eventually wrapped her saddle in a thin layer of packaging material (it's a couple of millimeters thick with closed cells) and put a seat cover over it. That mostly solved her discomfort. Then we went to wide tires and she's one very happy camper with those bumps smoothed out by the wider, lower pressure tires.

Dean V

Definitely this.

stevoo

ISM Adamo saddles have proven great for us. Of course everyone is different. When adjusted properly it takes the weight and any discomfort off of the soft bits. Fore and aft adjustment as well as angle do make a huge difference so it takes some tweaking.

We use the "Breakaway" model. Every ISM model is different even though they may look alike. For example: Tried the Prologue and even though it looks almost the same as the Breakaway it did not work for us.

twocicle

Terry Butterfly != Terry Butterfly Carbon. Same shape but very different padding.

Acknowledge that everyone is different. We have no issue moving around, standing, etc. However, even though my stoker is only 5'2", her reach on the standard tandem cockpit is much less than on her single. This position does put more weight on the saddle vs the arms and hence does tend to reveal more saddle or chamois issues.

You never say what hurts and what works for you. Can you elaborate on the actual saddle fit?

mje

My stoker is on her third saddle in her search, and so far the Terry Butterfly Gel is her favorite. It was suggested by a friend who also stokes on it after an very long saddle search.

Team Fab

Could try shorts with thicker padding. Sugoi RS are my wife's favorite.

Any reason she may be rocking forward and back or side to side. Was the fit right before the ride? Did you add a suspended seat post after fit?

Machka 

Whatever Butterfly I had was like trying to ride on a pair of knives. It has a cut-out ... the creation of a devil. I couldn't actually sit on my sitbones, instead my whole weight was supported right down the middle, on a part of me that was never intended to support weight, by the two raised edges of this cut-out.

The worst saddle I ever used beat this one out by a narrow margin. It was too narrow. I could plant one sitbone on the saddle, but the other slipped off the side causing much too much weight to be supported by the soft bits in the middle. It also made my hips feel like they were being torn apart.


And I did say what works for me. As I said above, I ride mens standard Brooks B17s on all my bicycles. On my single bicycles, those saddles disappear underneath me and I can ride long, long distances and not even notice my sitting area.

On the tandem, however, it's not quite as good. The B17 is one of the best saddles, but if I go more than about 15 min without standing, I start experiencing a burning sensation throughout the whole sitting area, but mainly the sitbones because that's what I'm sitting on. That's about the best description I can come up with. It starts to feel like the saddle is hot and it gets hotter and hotter and hotter until I absolutely need to stand up right now.

Also, for some reason, both ghost pedalling and climbing causes me to shift my weight forward so that part of my weight is supported by the front area of the soft bits ... not comfortable at all. I haven't figured out why those two activities do that. But I end up having to push back with my arms to try to sit back on my sitbones, which isn't particularly comfortable or efficient. Fortunately, the ghost pedalling is quite short-lived ... climbing, however, can sometimes go on for a while.

And, as mentioned earlier, I find stretching my lower back and hamstrings off the bicycle eases things as well. We stop about every 45 min or so, and I stretch each time.

I also suspect that, as with any cycling, a stronger core would help.


My setup on the tandem is about the same as any other bicycle, but that is a good point. If the stoker is sitting more upright than on a single bicycle, there will be more pressure on the sitbones.

sculbertson

I found the right saddle for me years ago...Selle Anatomica. My wife and stoker went through a series of about 6 different saddles on the tandem searching for a good fit. Each time she would want to switch to a new saddle, I would suggest she try the SA. She would take one look at it and was sure that slab of leather couldn't be as comfortable as a traditional padded saddle. Finally she gave it a try and loved it. Between the 2 of us, we now own 5 SA saddles.

cajoe

Similar to sculbertson my stoker has gone through a few saddles before trying my Rivet Pearl which she has now requested to keep. I've ridden both the Rivet and a Selle Anatomica. Both are very comfortable. The Rivet is a bit firmer to start, but breaks in nicely and has the riveted flap that will prevent splay. Time for me to order another one!

akexpress 

+1 the best tandem saddle period the only downside is the weight

twocicle

This article is quite good at discussing saddle fit (though we never found any SMP saddle to work for us).

see: ALL ABOUT SMP?S » Bike Fit » Pelvic » Steve Hogg's Bike Fitting Website

chojn1

We are big fans of the Terry saddles (Fly & Butterfly). In fact, I had my now 12 year old Fly on 5 different singles & tandems. I used it so much, it has developed a hole in the leather. Since then I decided to experiment with a few different newer saddles. For now we are settled on these from Ergon:



Mine is the road version; my wife's is the enduro version with a little extra padding. We love the clean design. And, at ~220gm each, they are about 100gm lighter than the Terrys. According to my wife, there is no difference in her comfort level. I don't like recommending saddles as everyone's body and preferences are different. But, these may be alternate options on the "to try" list for anyone still experimenting with their saddle choice.

CJ

twocicle

FWIW, Butterfly Carbon = 218g. Bought wisely it can be had for ~$130. Also, only the Carbon or Ti have leather covers, the heavier CroMo has Vinyl.

I use Specialized Romin Evo Pro saddles on my road bikes (also carbon railed and only 160gm), at 130mm wide (a size not advertised but available by special order). It's the only saddle that has ever given me perfect support and comfortable on rides of any length I've tackled. Having tried various models and sizes, it is amazing how a simple error like selecting the next width up (ie: 143mm) results in horrible agony.

Know thyself

ReedCycle

We are sold on Brooks saddles. My wife has the Brooks Finesse (titanium rails) on a Thudbuster ST seat post. It took a while to get it tilted just right, but since then it has been perfectly comfortable on both long and short rides, including 14 centuries over the past 12 years. I have a Brooks B-17 with titanium rails, and we have ridden our Brooks saddles over 30,000 miles on our original Co-Motion Speedster and current Calfee. We are on our second set of the saddles, having replaced our originals 6 years ago. The most comfortable saddles that we have ridden.

Machka 

I've never ridden a women's specific Brooks ... and they aren't that much different in size from the men's ...

Women's B17 - LxW: 245 x 177mm

Men's B17 - LxW: 280 x 170mm


But I am toying with the idea of going to a women's specific Brooks on our tandem. I'm thinking perhaps the ever-so-slight increase in width and the more significant decrease in length might me somewhat more comfortable.


(That said, the I see that although the Finesse is shorter than the men's, it is the same width as a men's)

PMK

FWIW, the Ventana MTB tandem runs Terry Fly in front and Butterfly in the rear. Both Ti railed. The Co-Motion previously ran this same setup with good success. We have changed over to the Sella Anatomicas. While boat anchor heavy, they certainly allow for a ride that can be fast or casual, longer or shorter distance. They do however need to be adjusted for tension which we did without stopping. Brought the wrench and adjusted on the go. Once set the Sella Anatomicas have worked well for us on road. After my pains earlier this year that needed to be sorted out, I did find the Sella Anatomica would "self adjust" with use. Once the cause was sorted out, I modded both saddles to prevent this.

We did try the non slotted Sella Anatomica on the back of the mountain tandem. That did not work well so the Butterfly was reinstalled.

I have learned with Ti Butterflys, it is best to run them and replace them often. The used saddles can be sold for a fair price and it is best to keep a consistent saddle under the stoker. Someone mentioned the foam aged and hardened, our experience is the opposite. With use the foam softened and the saddle became vague and painful.

All the best with it, a difficult topic with many possible answers, but one best answer, from the person it matters to most.

PK

bikecob

Brooks fans here also. I have tried several models and have settled on the B17 as the most comfortable. We have a brooks on every bike we have. (2 full and 5 half).

chojn1

Don't get me wrong, I am still a big fan of the Terrys. I currently have a carbon set on my carbon tandem. My challenge with the touring tandem is the beautiful set of titanium seatposts that Eriksen built specifically for my bike which only take round seat rails. For these, the titanium Ergons work perfectly. Ergon also make carbon rail saddles which are even lighter. The Selle Anatomicas belongs to my mountain bike tandem which is sitting in Hawaii. They will be reunited on our new year trip.

CJ