Spoke tension meter recommedations
#1
Steel is real
Thread Starter
Spoke tension meter recommedations
I went and bought myself a spoke tension meter to take the guess work out, but i'm at a loss at what the tensions should be front and rear, drive side or non drive side of the rear
I mainly build aluminum 700c double walled or 27.1/4" alloy standard wheels.. 36 hole.. 2.0mm stainless steel spokes
The meter i got is a Deckas 0-50
Thanks
I mainly build aluminum 700c double walled or 27.1/4" alloy standard wheels.. 36 hole.. 2.0mm stainless steel spokes
The meter i got is a Deckas 0-50
Thanks
Last edited by le mans; 09-09-19 at 05:58 AM.
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Down Under
Posts: 1,936
Bikes: A steel framed 26" off road tourer from a manufacturer who thinks they are cool. Giant Anthem. Trek 720 Multiroad pub bike. 10 kids bikes all under 20". Assorted waifs and unfinished projects.
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1188 Post(s)
Liked 1,154 Times
in
640 Posts
Google your rims, find out the maximum tension, use that for everything except the NDS, that'll be determined by the amount of dish.
#3
Steel is real
Thread Starter
I'm talking good second hand wheels or rims that are unmarked, Trev.
I got given a Novotec front wheel - that's marked on the hub! (double walled, 36 round stainless spokes)
trued it up and now with the meter tool it reads anywhere from 20-25, thinking i may have tightened it a bit much, dunno
I got given a Novotec front wheel - that's marked on the hub! (double walled, 36 round stainless spokes)
trued it up and now with the meter tool it reads anywhere from 20-25, thinking i may have tightened it a bit much, dunno
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 3,061
Bikes: Homebuilt steel
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2201 Post(s)
Liked 426 Times
in
338 Posts
That Decka gauge looks to be a knockoff of the Park. Can't bank on the numbering system being the same since we don't know the spring tension or what have you. Not sure what to suggest other than to use the gauge to judge consistency of tension around the wheel instead of absolute tension numbers. That's where a tension gauge really comes in handy anyway.
#5
Generally bewildered
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Eastern PA, USA
Posts: 3,037
Bikes: 2014 Trek Domane 6.9, 1999 LeMond Zurich, 1978 Schwinn Superior
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1152 Post(s)
Liked 341 Times
in
251 Posts
I'm talking good second hand wheels or rims that are unmarked, Trev.
I got given a Novotec front wheel - that's marked on the hub! (double walled, 36 round stainless spokes)
trued it up and now with the meter tool it reads anywhere from 20-25, thinking i may have tightened it a bit much, dunno
I got given a Novotec front wheel - that's marked on the hub! (double walled, 36 round stainless spokes)
trued it up and now with the meter tool it reads anywhere from 20-25, thinking i may have tightened it a bit much, dunno
I should point out that some rim mfrs recommend pretty low high limits on spoke tension (these ZTR rims state a 95kgf maximum). If your Deckas chart is like my Park chart, that 25 reading is more like 120kgf for 2mm spokes, right?
Here's a proposed paradigm for re-doing wheels where you don't have rim max spoke tension data. See if you can find similar designs in current offerings, look for the distribution of spoke tension limits on those designs (easier said than found for some rims) and perhaps back off a bit from the mean of those values (or use the minimum value). Then build the rim and tighten and true to that value (letting the NDS float to whatever value you need to get dish). Of course if the rim tacos at that level, back off. Other's may have experience enough to state tension targets. In any case, I'm going to rebuild my Paramount wheels (I sold the frame - I guess I need to find a frame for those wheels!) using new rims so I'll hopefully have the max tension spec to start out with.
I realize that this is squishy and non-specific, but you have to make a choice based upon something and if you don't have any data (say, for old rims) using other designs as a guideline gives you some info. Criticism from the experts welcome.
Last edited by WizardOfBoz; 09-09-19 at 07:50 AM.
#6
Steel is real
Thread Starter
That Decka gauge looks to be a knockoff of the Park. Can't bank on the numbering system being the same since we don't know the spring tension or what have you. Not sure what to suggest other than to use the gauge to judge consistency of tension around the wheel instead of absolute tension numbers. That's where a tension gauge really comes in handy anyway.
#7
Steel is real
Thread Starter
Wiz, I'll post a pic of the Conventible table i received with it, probably a typo "Convertible". Can't make head or tail out of it.
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 20,437
Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones
Mentioned: 178 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5890 Post(s)
Liked 3,475 Times
in
2,080 Posts
This is a good thread as I run more than a few older wheels and lately I've had spokes break on 2 different wheels. I've used the tighten until they taco and then back off idea for building new wheels (I think Jobst Brandt used that in his book on wheel building) but I'm hesitant to do that on old wheels. I think (and maybe I'm wrong) that old wheels tend to lose some tension over time so I nearly always tighten them up a bit before riding. I guess I need to break down and buy a spoke tension meter. It will take some of the guess work out of fixing up old wheelsets and obviously help in building new ones.
Likes For bikemig:
#9
Steel is real
Thread Starter
#10
Generally bewildered
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Eastern PA, USA
Posts: 3,037
Bikes: 2014 Trek Domane 6.9, 1999 LeMond Zurich, 1978 Schwinn Superior
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1152 Post(s)
Liked 341 Times
in
251 Posts
Am I reading that right? Is a "25" on the meter 49kgf for a 2.0mm spoke? That would be pretty low.
#11
Steel is real
Thread Starter
#12
Generally bewildered
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Eastern PA, USA
Posts: 3,037
Bikes: 2014 Trek Domane 6.9, 1999 LeMond Zurich, 1978 Schwinn Superior
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1152 Post(s)
Liked 341 Times
in
251 Posts
On the Park meter, a 25 for a 2mm spoke is the value I quoted: 120kgf. Which seems to be a LOT higher than most wheel builds from back in the day. Possibly too high for older rims.
#13
Generally bewildered
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Eastern PA, USA
Posts: 3,037
Bikes: 2014 Trek Domane 6.9, 1999 LeMond Zurich, 1978 Schwinn Superior
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1152 Post(s)
Liked 341 Times
in
251 Posts
*I am using hyperbole that I hope will amuse, and not offend anyone. By "St. Gino", I am refering to Gino Bartali, a Tour and Giro winner who during WWII smuggled forged documents past the Nazis in Italy in the seat tube of his bike. The documents allowed Jews to escape the death camps. He was a devout Roman Catholic. I hold him in the highest regard.
Likes For WizardOfBoz:
#14
aged to perfection
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: PacNW
Posts: 1,823
Bikes: Dinucci Allez 2.0, Richard Sachs, Alex Singer, Serotta, Masi GC, Raleigh Pro Mk.1, Hetchins, etc
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 840 Post(s)
Liked 1,271 Times
in
669 Posts
I'm not a big fan of increasing spoke tension till "the wheel starts to taco" then backing off.
think about plastic vs. elastic deformation.
my opinion, for most conventional, tangentially spoked, 32 or 36 spoke wheels with double butted spokes, an average of 75-80 kgf on the drive side is fine. Off side and front will be a little less. The wheel will be long lived and resilient.
remember that clincher tires, when fully inflated, will decrease the spoke tension "a little bit"
how that number converts to your tension guage, and / or if it is accurately calibrated, is a question that we cannot answer here.
Mark Petry
Bainbridge Island, WA USA
think about plastic vs. elastic deformation.
my opinion, for most conventional, tangentially spoked, 32 or 36 spoke wheels with double butted spokes, an average of 75-80 kgf on the drive side is fine. Off side and front will be a little less. The wheel will be long lived and resilient.
remember that clincher tires, when fully inflated, will decrease the spoke tension "a little bit"
how that number converts to your tension guage, and / or if it is accurately calibrated, is a question that we cannot answer here.
Mark Petry
Bainbridge Island, WA USA
Likes For mpetry912:
#15
Steel is real
Thread Starter
Yep, i believe so. bringing them all down to 22 & re-truing i feel more comfortable with the wheel now (& thanks for your figures). so i think this meter tool wasn't a wasted 39 aussie dollars after all.
#16
working on my sandal tan
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,630
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)
Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3871 Post(s)
Liked 2,571 Times
in
1,579 Posts
#17
Generally bewildered
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Eastern PA, USA
Posts: 3,037
Bikes: 2014 Trek Domane 6.9, 1999 LeMond Zurich, 1978 Schwinn Superior
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1152 Post(s)
Liked 341 Times
in
251 Posts
This is exactly what I did with the 1978 Weinmann rims, to the same number (22). I agree, getting the fairly accurate number is reassuring. Good luck in riding. Happy to share numbers - numbers are kind of my job.
Likes For WizardOfBoz:
#18
Steel is real
Thread Starter
**Erm, No i trued this wheel weeks ago, before i decided the get a meter tool. i posted the documentation that came with it.. maybe you can decipher it for us, smart ass?
#19
Disco Infiltrator
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Folsom CA
Posts: 13,457
Bikes: Stormchaser, Paramount, Tilt, Samba tandem
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3130 Post(s)
Liked 2,111 Times
in
1,374 Posts
You can calculate the note the spoke should be making at a given tension, measure the note with a guitar tuning app or something on your phone, and compare it to the value from your meter.
__________________
Genesis 49:16-17
Genesis 49:16-17
#20
working on my sandal tan
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,630
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)
Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3871 Post(s)
Liked 2,571 Times
in
1,579 Posts
Anyways, don't look at a Park TM-1 table while using your tool. The scales are way different.
With 2.0mm straight gauge spokes, I'd be shooting for 26-27 (56-63 kgf) on the left side of the rear wheel, 31-32 (100-120 kgf) on the right. 30 (90 kgf) in front. Assuming the table is correct and the tool is accurate, that's the tensions I shoot for in a wheel.
#21
Steel is real
Thread Starter
Yeah.. I'm starting to think that chart reads true, 2.0 spokes - 49kgf =25 for this tool
My first attempt must have been too loose, it was very loose to start with.
Thanks for your recommendations, Scott, these figures helps heaps.
My first attempt must have been too loose, it was very loose to start with.
Thanks for your recommendations, Scott, these figures helps heaps.
#22
working on my sandal tan
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,630
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)
Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3871 Post(s)
Liked 2,571 Times
in
1,579 Posts
Properly-tensioned wheels can feel pretty tight if your experience is with loosey-goosey wheels. Good luck.
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: West Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,112
Bikes: '84 Peugeot PH10LE
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 397 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 55 Times
in
39 Posts
This is a good thread as I run more than a few older wheels and lately I've had spokes break on 2 different wheels. I've used the tighten until they taco and then back off idea for building new wheels (I think Jobst Brandt used that in his book on wheel building) but I'm hesitant to do that on old wheels. I think (and maybe I'm wrong) that old wheels tend to lose some tension over time so I nearly always tighten them up a bit before riding. I guess I need to break down and buy a spoke tension meter. It will take some of the guess work out of fixing up old wheelsets and obviously help in building new ones.
Jon
#24
Senior Member
On my Wheelsmith 50 on the scale equals 49Kg. I don't think you can compare different meter manufacturers for the tension. If you can find other new wheels to try you can get an idea of weather or not your meter is close.
I tend go for 100 Kg front and drive side. I let the NDS fall where it may.
I tend go for 100 Kg front and drive side. I let the NDS fall where it may.
Likes For davidad:
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 20,437
Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones
Mentioned: 178 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5890 Post(s)
Liked 3,475 Times
in
2,080 Posts
I'm curious, do you specialize in being a jerk? You're doing a fine job so far. There are a lot of ways you could have made your point without stating that I looked at the pictures rather than read the book . . . .
Last edited by bikemig; 09-09-19 at 02:17 PM.