antokelly

why was he banned

Happy Feet

Short answer: He was crazy.

Long answer: He had a very aggressive and insulting posting style. I think he knew his e motor stuff and would have probably done well enough in that sub forum but he argued a lot here and then carried those arguments all over the board.
His e bike was interesting but his perspective on gear because of it was crackers. In one thread he boasted of taking 4 sleeping systems just because he could. That was ok I guess but he couldn't seem to understand that that option wasn't really available to people who manually pedaled so it would lead to a lot of disputes.

Plus.. he really hated helicopters.

M69thunder

One of my bikes is Trek 520, another is Trek E-bike Crossrip. When I'm doing a self supported ride, I pull a "Bob" with my 520. I'm 59, 240 pounds.​​... the trailer halls my camping gear without overloading my bike. I haven't done a credit card tour, but if I do, I will consider the e-bike. Mainly, I use the crossrip to commute. Twenty-eight miles and over two thousand feet of climbing. Also, the e-bike allows me to join group rides, fifty miles, 5000 feet of climbing, where the majority of riders are three or four decades younger. No one is offended, otherwise they wouldn't invite me. (There is a few e-bikes in the group) It isn't a competition, just people that like doing the same thing, enjoying it together.

Bike's have been evolving from the very beginning. Technology has only made them better over time, allowing more people to ride, helps all riders. I remember when there wasn't dedicated bike trails or laws to protect bikers. I've seen pictures of people on bikes before they were peddle driven.... maybe the purist should go back to that!!!
​​​​

1-track-mind

Check out Giant Road-E. A cyclist used this on his 530 mile tour along the Pacific coast,after doing the same trip several times unassisted. He liked it !

veganbikes

Yamaha makes a great motor for E-MTB but their road stuff just isn't as good. We had a few Giants for a while but they didn't sell well. Not great support and the motor itself was just not great. Not sure why they (Yamaha) couldn't translate to road. It also could be part Giant as well.

tcs

There's a movement afoot in America to classify legal ebikes (and a few states in the United States have done so) thusly:

• Class 1: eBikes that are pedal-assist only, with no throttle, and have a maximum assisted speed of 20 mph.
• Class 2: eBikes that also have a maximum speed of 20 mph, but are throttle-assisted.
• Class 3: eBikes that are pedal-assist only, with no throttle, and a maximum assisted speed of 28 mph.

A few posters have intimated that class 1 ebikes make up the preponderance of the market. Anyone have any actual sales figures?

CAT7RDR

All I can say is E-Bikes have made me a more fit and skilled cyclist.

I go out of my way to ride in the hills/canyons/mtns just to avoid E-Bike on the local MUPS!

MN Bike Tourer

I do about 3000 miles a year, with a couple of multi-week tours in there. I never really felt like I had any problems climbing hills with a fully loaded bike (about 100 to 120 pounds). However, about every couple of years I have to get stents - I am now up to 7. Doing a lot of research for why, I came across a book on training for endurance, and the recommendations is not to exceed 180 minus your age. I do not know about others, but with wind or hills, my heart rate shoots up to the 140's, and at 67, I need to be keeping it at 113 bpm. My trip averages are always below 115 bpm, even when I did a 143 mile leg once. So when asking by cardiologist about it, he said that he did a bike trip in Europe and there's pedal assist all over the place. What that means is that I am still do most of the work, just using enough power to keep the heart rate down. Finished a 583 mile trip in late September in the Minnesota Iron range, with lots of steep grades, and a couple days of strong winds (+25mph). Longest days were around 80 miles, with most targeted for 60 miles. Never ran out of power on any day, since I would fully charge the battery each night, so you can tour with an e-bike, if you use pedal assist. I wanted to keep my "retirement" bike - Comotion Americana with Rholoff and decouplers. Also, I was concerned about durability and maintenance on a tour, which is why I popped for the Rholoff and Gates belt drive there is basic nothing to worry about on a trip; no chain to lube, or wear out. A Gates belt gives you about 10,000 miles and the Rholoff hub needs an oil change once a year. After a lot of searching, and saw a lot of comments about gears wearing out, I went with a 1000 watt direct drive front hub (no gears) from e-Bikes Canada. It does weigh about 15 pounds, but I have been touring with front panniers, so I am used to that. Added a 11.8 amp hour 52 volt battery. I figured I need the wattage for the touring load, now at 120 lb. Turns out I never used more than 300 watts on 8 to 10 per cent grades. So, if you want to take the wind and hills out of the picture, and still travel, you can do it with an pedal assist e-Bike. Also, if I want to go local with out the motor, I just swap out the front wheels, and I am back to the original setup.

tcs

One of the interesting things about ebikes for touring (in the USA) is the patchwork of laws governing their use. You can be etouring along perfectly legally, say, in Pennsylvania, cross the state line into New York and be breaking the law operating an illegal vehicle. Riding Georgia's Silver Comet Trail - great, but understand you'll violate Alabama law if you continue on the Chief Ladiga Trail. !

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws

Conversely, I'm told that any country that is signature to the 1968 International Convention on Road Traffic has to accept (pedal) bicycles as legal vehicles (although local laws & ordinances can specify where they can and can't be ridden).

jefnvk

Hmm, that actually is an interesting consideration I don't think has been discussed here, and probably wouldn't come up in the ebike forum (how many there are ever riding that bike out of their imminent jurisdiction). It could make planning a tour more involved than a simple pedal bike, if you needed to avoid certain areas because of local prohibitions.

3speed

tcs

And I bet you're correct...unless (in the highly unlikely event) you were involved in an accident and a sharp eyed insurance company/lawyer noted you were operating a locally illegal vehicle.

The answer isn't to not tour the USA on ebikes (if that's your bag, baby) but to work for uniform national laws - or at least reciprocity among states - for those useful vehicles that aren't part of the Uniform Vehicle Code: ebikes, motorized bicycles, mopeds & etc.

1-track-mind

Ghostbusters.

Leebo

That would be a fair amount of my time, in the woods, no electricity. Keep looking for a tree to plug into though. May be better suited for an e bike forum.

Leebo

Bikes don't have motors, start there.

PedalingWalrus

and end right there as it is a dead end.

If you have to pedal it to move it forward then it is a bike.

jefnvk

I don't see any motorcycles with ~250w motors that cut out at ~20mph and no throttle, either. Thinking the presence of a tiny motor makes them akin to my 450#, 650cc motorcycle with three times the luggage space of my bike (with heated handgrips that would have been awesome in Iceland) is silly.

Show me the ebike that can cruise down the highway at 60MPH all day long, and I'll agree its more akin to a motorcycle. Until then, the fact remains that the motor allows a weaker rider to do nothing more than a strong rider could. Outside of some very specific use cases, they aren't going faster or further than me or you, all while still pedaling

And no, I'm not telling the eighty-something year old guy on my last group tour he wasn't really on a bike tour because the use case of a big hill he kicked up the assist and beat me on his recumbant etrike.

tcs

A Swedish study reported higher average speeds for e-bikes (Dozza, Werneke & Mackenzie, 2013).

PedalingWalrus

That looks about right. When I'm on ebike I find I have slightly better avg speed but I'm still below the avg speed of the studs who in our area average 17-20mph. I know that on ebike I'm definitely slower than they are on the downhills, they marginally beat me on straight aways and I'm slightly better then they are on the uphills.

jefnvk

I think that more or less validates my point. A 14mph average puts them a bit slower than my unladen leg only pace (as I doubt those numbers were in any sort of touring environment).

From a purely selfish standpoint, I'd rather have my regular MUP traffic pretty much mirroring my speed than doing 9mph.

BobG

After 50 years of traditional acoustic bike touring I had to go electric at age 68 (now 70) due to femoral nerve damage. My display indicates an average speed of 15.2 mph for the past two years. I'll climb a hill up to 12% at 15-20 mph. Steeper than that the speed drops off considerably. On the flats my motor tops out at 20 mph and a fast conventional rider will pull ahead. That's unloaded riding in and around my town in the White Mountains of NH.

The assist, suggested by my doctor, is the only reason I've been able to continue my lifelong hobby at a restricted local level. Not something I wanted to do as it makes extended overnight camping tours difficult if not impossible to pull off. Disability happens. When Bob Dylan went electric the fans complained. They got used to it.

@AlanK, I could still tour on my retro-fit ebike but it would require careful planning with electricity at every overnight. Motel touring is not my style or budget and many campgrounds are without power. Carrying a second battery I might have a range of 40-80 miles between charges depending upon terrain.

Bruce Gordon Rock'n'Road with assist...

Rob_E

I don't have an e-bike, but I do have a dream of building an electric, Big Fat Dummy, so I can carry the dogs around town, travel the greenways during our few days of snow, and way overpack for some local overnight camping trips. The set-up I most envy and would want to emulate is @Robert C (https://www.bikeforums.net/members/robert-c-67840.html), who has solar panels that keep his bike charged enough that he seems to easily get a whole day's riding out of it. It's the perpetual motion e-bike. No outlets needed.

Leebo

Not going to debate semantics with you. MA rider here. The point is that there are a variety of definitions, be it state federal or local, MUP and DOT regs as to what defines a " bike" You going look at every area you pedal in to see if its legal on the mup, forest road or wherever you a motoring? ( pedaling) Sticking to only paved roads? Great. Most of my touring tends to be off road. Getting away from it all, for me does not include a motorized vehicle. If I wanted a motor, I would buy a touring motorcycle. Yes I get they are different. But it's more of a principle thing here for some. YRMV.

Leebo

Whatever lets you sleep at night. I tend to do lots of my touring( bikepacking) off road. Local conservation, state parks, and lots of federal land define anything with a motor( wait for it) as motorized and are restricted in many places. 250 watts? Tiny 160 mm cranks and 3K watts is still a bike? Whatev.

M69thunder

It's not a real bike if it has pedals, a Purist wouldn't use them. Anyone pedaling shouldn't be on the road!!!