Wythnail

Hey guys, I just picked up a frame that I wanted to use for my first build ever. It's a raleigh professional frame made in 78. serial wk8003002, which thanks to kurts serial number guide I take to mean a Worksop (carlton) frame made in july 78. the previous owner got it in the condition it's in now, and had a quill fitted for it.

It's obviously been repainted at some point, looks like someone wanted to make it look like an old TI- Raleigh paintjob.

My concerns are the following:





At some point someone started drilling. the seat tube has two small holes for perhaps a second bottle cage, and the bottomside of the top tube have angles openings drilled in presumably so brake cables and housing could be put through the tube rather than strapped to it.

The more I look at it and think about it the more I think the frame is unusable. am I right?

Here are some more general pics:

WNG

The seat tube holes aren't too bad...but the size of the top tube holes have me personally think it's a goner.
Had the top tube holes been smaller, a frame builder could have brazed on the proper bosses for the seat tube and top tube holes. The bosses would have reinforced the openings...and you'd have a proper internal routed top tube.

I guess one can tig weld a plate over those top tube holes to strengthen the areas. And then add cable stops on them.

JerrySTL

I wouldn't worry about the water bottle holes. The hole on the top tube would be a concern. Probably could get someone to weld a doubler over it.

What about the paint that's messed up on the down tube a few inches from the head tube? Is it scratched, bubbled, or peeling? I can't tell from the photos, but I'd check closely for a stress fracture.

Pars 

The bottle cage holes wouldn't bother me too much, but those in the top tube might. However, many '80s frames used internal top tube routing for the rear brake cable, so this should probably be OK. If you are concerned, maybe have a framebuilder or a shop knowledgeable on vintage steel frames check it over?

rhm

That's not pretty!

But in a collision, tubes fail at the ends. While I'm sure those holes create weak spots on those tubes, those are not likely places for the tubes to fail in any normal circumstances. If it did fail, I believe you'd have plenty of warning --growing cracks, for example. I think I'd be comfortable riding it. But it also depends on rider weight, I suppose.

repechage

A hack job unfortunately. I would have proper water bottle boxes silvered in place for the seat tube and work with a frame builder who does repairs to see if you can locate some cable ports that would coverup and reinforce the top tube mess.
Of course what I just prescribed will toast the paint.

dbakl

There used to be a press in with a tool type boss to add water bottle mounts to a tube. For the top tube, I'd have a frame maker make some covers for the holes with an exit for the cables, like the used in the 50s. I think its repairable. Looks like a nice frame.

lostarchitect 

It's badly done, that's for sure. But I agree with RHM, I'm not sure all is lost. I would look up local framebuilders. Take it to one and see what they thing. They may be able to repair it with the proper braze ons for internal cable routing. You'll need to repaint, but that "ketchup & mustard" scheme isn't really doing much for you anyway.

Wythnail

man y'all jumped all over this thread fast! thanks for the responses!

I have to run to school but you've already made it clear that I should have a framebuilder look at it. Im not worried about the paint as if it's good enough to ride I was already flirting around with the idea of redoing it in the light blue/grey colours that ive seen around the web for this model.

Edit: I know of about 5 framebuilders here in town, so hopefully some phonecalls can clear up where to take it

JohnDThompson 

You could conceivably have Riv-Nuts put in the seat tube holes to mount a second bottle cage, but something needs to be done about that top tube! I'm not a fan of internal cable routing, so my personal choice would be to replace the top tube, in which case you may as well skip the Riv-Nuts and get proper bosses brazed in the seat tube.

Alternatively, there are reinforced braze-ons for internal cable routing that might cover enough of the damage and allow proper internal cable routing:



Again, as long as you're doing some brazing, you may as well do the bottle bosses at the same time.

Kactus

I agree with John. That is a quality frame and well worth the cost to do it right IMO. I like my '78 Professional alot, it's a great ride.

JohnDThompson 

I suspect that's just paint damage from clamp-on shifters.

JerrySTL

All my years of using down-tube shifters, and I never thought of that!

Ex Pres 

Take it to Dave @ SWFrameworks.

Cyclart added braze-ons and internal TT routing to my '78 back around '87 or so (for the first owner)

busdriver1959

That frame is definately worth saving and repainting. Here's a list of framebuilders by state. You have plenty to choose from. https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=113817. Good luck and post pictures when it's done..