Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

"This is for your safety..."

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

"This is for your safety..."

Old 07-10-19, 12:25 PM
  #1  
livedarklions
Je suis Snap Motomag
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 4,218

Bikes: Trek FX 3; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; "Motobecane" Fantom CX

Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2125 Post(s)
Liked 578 Times in 350 Posts
"This is for your safety..."

https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/07...kless-cyclist/


As the cop explains, the people on the street laugh at him.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 07-10-19, 01:06 PM
  #2  
rumrunn6
Senior Member
 
rumrunn6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Posts: 22,978

Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r

Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3083 Post(s)
Liked 141 Times in 113 Posts
good report. interesting to read that NYC cycling deaths increased 50% in 2019 (over 2018) & it's only July!
rumrunn6 is offline  
Old 07-10-19, 01:48 PM
  #3  
Rick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 362
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 155 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 33 Times in 28 Posts
To bad they didn't have video of the collision. I would have liked to see if the cop used his siren. That is the way you should pull someone over, instead of curbing them.
Rick is offline  
Old 07-10-19, 01:59 PM
  #4  
Notso_fastLane
Senior Member
 
Notso_fastLane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Layton, UT
Posts: 901

Bikes: 2011 Bent TW Elegance 2014 Carbon Strada Velomobile

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
Liked 29 Times in 22 Posts
Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
good report. interesting to read that NYC cycling deaths increased 50% in 2019 (over 2018) & it's only July!
Can't say for sure, but I suspect it might have to do with the proliferation of bike share programs. Lots more people riding, with a lot less experience.
Notso_fastLane is offline  
Old 07-10-19, 02:12 PM
  #5  
Chinghis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Southern California
Posts: 118

Bikes: Historical: Schwinn Speedster; Schwinn Collegiate; 1981 Ross Gran Tour; 1981 Dawes Atlantis. Current: 1992 Specialized Stumpjumper FS

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Fantastic. I used to live right there, back when you couldn't have paid someone to ride a bike through there.

I'm assuming the cop did one of those maneuvers where they hit the car's back bumper while turning the wheel to get them to spin out. I'm not sure that's the best approach on a 40-pound bike.
Chinghis is offline  
Old 07-10-19, 02:33 PM
  #6  
Daniel4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,140

Bikes: Sekini 1979 ten speed racer

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 762 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 50 Times in 36 Posts
I'm sure there are a few people here on bike forums who can tell the cop or the cyclist how to properly run red lights.

Secondly, since my joining BF and doing internet searches, I have found only two stories where cyclists cause a direct pedestrian death. Compare that to the annual rate of deaths of all types of road users by motor vehicles, pedestrian deaths due to cyclists are practically a non-issue. Annoyance is another matter.

Thirdly, using a car to stop someone would normally be called assault with a deadly weapon. Even though cops are licenced to use deadly weapons, deadly force against someone who poses no threat to the police or the public would be questionable.
Daniel4 is offline  
Old 07-10-19, 06:39 PM
  #7  
FiftySix
where's the gas tank?
 
FiftySix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: S.E. Texas
Posts: 619

Bikes: Norco CityGlide, Schwinn Willy

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 282 Post(s)
Liked 138 Times in 108 Posts
For the sake of discussion, what should police in a vehicle do when trying to pull over a cyclist that won't stop?

It's not like the cop can hop out of the vehicle and pursue on foot to make an arrest.
FiftySix is online now  
Likes For FiftySix:
Old 07-10-19, 07:55 PM
  #8  
SnowJob
Dirt junkie.
 
SnowJob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 400

Bikes: Surly Ice Cream Truck, Traitor Ruben, Redline Monocog 29er

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by FiftySix View Post
For the sake of discussion, what should police in a vehicle do when trying to pull over a cyclist that won't stop?

It's not like the cop can hop out of the vehicle and pursue on foot to make an arrest.
Howabaout start with the simple premise that if someone isn't being violent, not to use violence against them?
SnowJob is offline  
Likes For SnowJob:
Old 07-10-19, 08:01 PM
  #9  
CrankyOne
Senior Member
 
CrankyOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,323
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 303 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by FiftySix View Post
For the sake of discussion, what should police in a vehicle do when trying to pull over a cyclist that won't stop?

It's not like the cop can hop out of the vehicle and pursue on foot to make an arrest.
Get far enough ahead of the bicycle rider that the passenger cop can step out and flag the bicycle rider down?
CrankyOne is offline  
Old 07-10-19, 09:18 PM
  #10  
Daniel4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,140

Bikes: Sekini 1979 ten speed racer

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 762 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 50 Times in 36 Posts
Originally Posted by FiftySix View Post
For the sake of discussion, what should police in a vehicle do when trying to pull over a cyclist that won't stop?

It's not like the cop can hop out of the vehicle and pursue on foot to make an arrest.
That's why you also need bike cops.
Daniel4 is offline  
Likes For Daniel4:
Old 07-11-19, 01:10 AM
  #11  
Rick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 362
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 155 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 33 Times in 28 Posts
Listening to the video, the officer talks about making eye contact. Did he use his siren before the patrol vehicle made contact with the bicycle. Did he yell out the patrol vehicle window to pullover. If the officer did these things then by any means necessary he needs to stop him. But instead of denting up an expensive SUV get the officer a net gun like the one used on Arnold in The Running Man.

The only time I have been pulled over by the police the officer attempted to squeeze me against the curb. No lights, no siren no voice command. I had not broken any law.
Rick is offline  
Old 07-11-19, 02:14 AM
  #12  
rseeker
Senior Member
 
rseeker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Southeast US
Posts: 614
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 206 Post(s)
Liked 30 Times in 23 Posts
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
The only time I have been pulled over by the police the officer attempted to squeeze me against the curb. No lights, no siren no voice command. I had not broken any law.
Are you gonna tell the rest of that story? Sounds interesting to me. Were you on a bike? Why did he feel he needed to pull you over? What did he say and what happened?
rseeker is offline  
Old 07-11-19, 03:13 AM
  #13  
livedarklions
Je suis Snap Motomag
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 4,218

Bikes: Trek FX 3; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; "Motobecane" Fantom CX

Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2125 Post(s)
Liked 578 Times in 350 Posts
Originally Posted by FiftySix View Post
For the sake of discussion, what should police in a vehicle do when trying to pull over a cyclist that won't stop?

It's not like the cop can hop out of the vehicle and pursue on foot to make an arrest.
This is a problem with chases generally. The cops get so fixated on making the stop that safety considerations get ignored. The correct answer is if you cannot safely make the stop, let him go. This isn't just a risk to the cyclist, it's a risk to the general public. Bystanders get hurt in these car chases quite often.

i know it's very common among le agencies to set out rules drastically limiting high speed chases because of the risk to the public and to officers. This happened after a rash of fatalities nationwide. If this Vision Zero nonsense is now being used as a reason to chase down bicyclists with SUVs, it's time to end it.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 07-11-19, 03:55 AM
  #14  
Rick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 362
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 155 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 33 Times in 28 Posts
Are you gonna tell the rest of that story? Sounds interesting to me. Were you on a bike? Why did he feel he needed to pull you over? What did he say and what happened?
I was riding my tandem home from a once a week appointment and another bicyclist who had no intention of stopping at a light got really mad at me. I did not know he was drafting and we had words. Coming back home from the appointment a week later he hit me in the back on his way by and called me a fat looser. The following week I saw him approaching in my take a look mirror and swerved so he was forced to stay away. This did not detour him and he kept making passes at me.I then sprayed some Halt dog spray at him. He then pronounced that he was calling the police. I encouraged him to do so. I told him he was a loon. I had to listen to him calling me names for several more miles. An officer pulled up next to me and swerved to the curb. I was going up hill at around 10mph so I stopped dismounted and put me and the tandem on the sidewalk. The officer gets out of the patrol car and tells me he did not tell me I could get off of my bicycle. I laughed at him and said you attempted to make me crash my bicycle. The officer decided to talk to the clown who caused the problem then pronounced that he was going to have the clown make a citizens arrest. I asked for a super visor and told the officer that I will take this to court. At this point they conversed and said they were letting me go. The officer told me to stop leering at him.

So here ends the most complete version of my encounter with officer antisocial and his partner the wannabe bicycle racer/wannabe fireman. Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints.
Rick is offline  
Old 07-12-19, 07:52 AM
  #15  
Daniel4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,140

Bikes: Sekini 1979 ten speed racer

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 762 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 50 Times in 36 Posts
I'm guessing your pulling out the dog spray would considered assault (as what the driver did) but if you had pulled out a gun, then you could plead it was for defence.
Daniel4 is offline  
Old 07-12-19, 10:13 AM
  #16  
Leisesturm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,996
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1273 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 27 Posts
As a born and lifelong NY'er presently living away from the city, I keep up with current events via podcasts of shows originating there. This episode caught my attention: https://www.wnyc.org/story/the-brian...how-2019-07-08. The second segment is obviously the relevant one. Listen to that caller claiming to be a cyclist but quoting chapter and verse from the motorists creed regarding vulnerable road users. This is nothing new. Motorists have long felt that the majority of vehicular cyclists are out of control and need to be taught a lesson. Now I don't believe for a minute that drivers are out for a cyclist genocide but in this present social climate of intolerance of all kinds the knee jerk reaction these days is anger. When the sight of a cyclist angers you you will be that beat late in applying the brake when you see they are in trouble. That's all it takes. A microseconds delay in taking the action that would have saved their life.
Leisesturm is offline  
Old 07-12-19, 10:51 AM
  #17  
base2 
Senior Member
 
base2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 980

Bikes: N+1

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 515 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 68 Times in 47 Posts
There is a stoplight at the bottom of a hill by my house. One day at 04:00 am for my commute, I approached the light as it turned red.

I stopped & waited for the cross path to cycle green, then to red.

A car approached the on coming turn lane. It cycled for them. They made their left. Then the cross path cycled back to green.

The whole time I'm standing there. So I decide to utilize RCW 46.61.184, mount my bike & proceed through the lighted intersection. A few seconds later one of the town's finest pulls along side me & flips on his lights as I cruise at 25mph. He flips on his loud speaker/public address and says: "Do not run red lights. Do you understand?"
I reply: "Yes."
"This is for YOUR safety. Do YOU understand?"
I reply: "YES!" He then shuts everything down and speeds away.

What an effin' jerk. The bike lane is slightly down hill, then slightly up so that it fills with gravel, debris, and the garbage of a city block that collects there. Me & my 70 pounds of bike/panniers loaded with my lunch box, rain gear and assorted items, needed to be in the traffic lane his police SUV was occupying for my own actual safety needs to avoid debris and broken pavement!

I'm sure the apartment dwellers immediatly adjacent appreciate his concern for my safety at 4am.

smh
base2 is offline  
Old 07-12-19, 01:25 PM
  #18  
Rick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 362
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 155 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 33 Times in 28 Posts
I'm guessing your pulling out the dog spray would considered assault (as what the driver did) but if you had pulled out a gun, then you could plead it was for defence.
Not assault
Rick is offline  
Old 07-12-19, 11:49 PM
  #19  
livedarklions
Je suis Snap Motomag
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 4,218

Bikes: Trek FX 3; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; "Motobecane" Fantom CX

Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2125 Post(s)
Liked 578 Times in 350 Posts
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
Not assault
Legally, it's definitely an assault. You had a plausible self-defense justification, but if you had just sprayed a random person for no reason, you would definitely have assaulted them.

Actually, self-defense justification requires that you admit you committed the otherwise illegal act, but that you prove it was reasonable and necessary under the circumstances.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 07-13-19, 04:07 AM
  #20  
Rick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 362
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 155 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 33 Times in 28 Posts
Legally, it's definitely an assault. You had a plausible self-defense justification, but if you had just sprayed a random person for no reason, you would definitely have assaulted them.
The Weight weenie on the road bike had already assaulted me once. He attempted to strike me again. I defended myself from a second attack. His attempt to claim I assaulted him held no water. Ill just have to chalk it up to another basement dwelling unhappy person crying out for more attention. I never saw him again. I'm guessing he figured out that starting a fight and then calling home to mama doesn't always work.

NO ASSAULT Just an angry basement dweller.
Rick is offline  
Old 07-14-19, 05:12 AM
  #21  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 22,555
Mentioned: 173 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8759 Post(s)
Liked 109 Times in 97 Posts
Hmmm..

Glad nobody was actually hurt. This could have ended badly... for the cyclist.

I have to wonder if CitiBikes has the tracking info that the NYPD could serve them with a warrant and get the name and identity of the cyclist.

So, let the cyclist continue on their merry way, but snag the person later at home/work/mail/etc.
CliffordK is offline  
Old 07-14-19, 04:48 PM
  #22  
Rollfast
What happened?
 
Rollfast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Around here somewhere
Posts: 7,591

Bikes: 3 Rollfasts, 3 Schwinns, a Shelby and a Higgins Flightliner in a pear tree!

Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1586 Post(s)
Liked 84 Times in 78 Posts
Wow, that when downhill faster than I thought.
__________________

Marcia Brady rode a ROLLFAST!
Rollfast is offline  
Old 07-14-19, 04:50 PM
  #23  
Rollfast
What happened?
 
Rollfast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Around here somewhere
Posts: 7,591

Bikes: 3 Rollfasts, 3 Schwinns, a Shelby and a Higgins Flightliner in a pear tree!

Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1586 Post(s)
Liked 84 Times in 78 Posts
This was about an incident in NYC it appears. When it turns into a gee, I was wronged and how discussion it loses it point and way.
__________________

Marcia Brady rode a ROLLFAST!
Rollfast is offline  
Old 07-15-19, 09:01 AM
  #24  
livedarklions
Je suis Snap Motomag
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 4,218

Bikes: Trek FX 3; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; "Motobecane" Fantom CX

Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2125 Post(s)
Liked 578 Times in 350 Posts
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
The Weight weenie on the road bike had already assaulted me once. He attempted to strike me again. I defended myself from a second attack. His attempt to claim I assaulted him held no water. Ill just have to chalk it up to another basement dwelling unhappy person crying out for more attention. I never saw him again. I'm guessing he figured out that starting a fight and then calling home to mama doesn't always work.

NO ASSAULT Just an angry basement dweller.


You're missing the point of what I wrote--essentially, when you claim self-defense, you are saying you committed a justified assault. We're not disagreeing, you're just using terminology incorrectly.

If he had only called you a name and you sprayed him in the face, that would have been an unjustified assault. It's the fact that he had struck you before and appeared to be preparing to do it again that makes it self-defense.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 07-15-19, 12:45 PM
  #25  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 22,555
Mentioned: 173 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8759 Post(s)
Liked 109 Times in 97 Posts
https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2019/07/...ing-red-light/



It would be interesting to see the entire low-speed chase, not just the aftermath.

There likely are damages to the police car, the bicycle, and the parked car. Who pays?

The police car was obviously moving at the point of impact, wedging the bike in tight. And, the seat is now wedged under the rear fender. If the cyclist hadn't been somehow ejected from the bike, he could have lost a leg.

This is like shooting a person to prevent them from entering a situation where they could potentially get shot.

Everyone is lucky there weren't severe injuries.
CliffordK is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.