Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Utility Cycling
Reload this Page >

Big Dummy 2011: my build :)

Utility Cycling Want to haul groceries, beer, maybe even your kids? You don't have to live car free to put your bike to use as a workhorse. Here's the place to share and learn about the bicycle as a utility vehicle.

Big Dummy 2011: my build :)

Old 05-01-11, 06:25 PM
  #151  
skijor
on by
 
skijor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 938

Bikes: Waterford RS-33, Salsa Vaya, Bacchetta Giro 20 ATT

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 593 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Wow that's a shocker. I still enjoyed reading about your BD build. You apparently weren't big or dumb enough
skijor is offline  
Old 05-01-11, 06:28 PM
  #152  
AdamDZ
Bike addict, dreamer
Thread Starter
 
AdamDZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Queens, New York
Posts: 5,165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by skijor View Post
Wow that's a shocker. I still enjoyed reading about your BD build. You apparently weren't big or dumb enough
And I enjoyed building it!
AdamDZ is offline  
Old 05-01-11, 06:38 PM
  #153  
dwnptrl_777
Señor Member
 
dwnptrl_777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 547

Bikes: Ti Fatback

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by AdamDZ View Post
And I enjoyed building it!
Funny how things turn out. When I built the Goat in '08 I thought I'd found the perfect bike. And believe me, it was hard to let go of that bike a few months ago. But it helped me get back on my feet, literally, and it became part of a process of a few bicycles (Goat > Trucker > Pugsley) which, ultimately, helped me know what I wanted as The One. My heart is deep in the woods. Has been since birth. And so the process of bikes helped me understand that I needed something built for offroad, with a second wheelset that still let me play on the road or race when I wanted to.

Anyway, point is, sometimes we need to work through this stuff to know what we really want/need, so no harm done in selling your BD, Adam. Someone else will enjoy it.
__________________
......_ .
O/---\/O
dwnptrl_777 is offline  
Old 05-01-11, 07:05 PM
  #154  
AdamDZ
Bike addict, dreamer
Thread Starter
 
AdamDZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Queens, New York
Posts: 5,165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by dwnptrl_777 View Post
Funny how things turn out. When I built the Goat in '08 I thought I'd found the perfect bike. And believe me, it was hard to let go of that bike a few months ago. But it helped me get back on my feet, literally, and it became part of a process of a few bicycles (Goat > Trucker > Pugsley) which, ultimately, helped me know what I wanted as The One. My heart is deep in the woods. Has been since birth. And so the process of bikes helped me understand that I needed something built for offroad, with a second wheelset that still let me play on the road or race when I wanted to.

Anyway, point is, sometimes we need to work through this stuff to know what we really want/need, so no harm done in selling your BD, Adam. Someone else will enjoy it.
Yeah, I think the part of this process/problem is that I am not really sure what I want (that doesn't apply only to bikes either) and I don't have the room to keep all the bikes (and some other things too...) that I'd like to keep. It was definitely a learning process though. I was also hoping that the BD would become my universal bike but I guess I was wrong. It's a cargo bike. It can't replace a touring bike or a mountain bike and it turned out to be too big to be a commuter bike as well.

But I can't have "The One". When it comes to bikes I don't think I can have one bike that will do it all.

I think the idea is beginning to surface that I want three relatively simple bikes:

1) a commuter/hauler, I already have one and it works well alone or with the trailer
2) a weekend/touring bike, probably a rigid MTB with narrow tires and touring bar that would fit on trains or be easily packed for flying/shipping
3) a front suspension MTB, I still would like to go hit some trails, I miss not having a pure MTB

I was thinking about having one bike with a couple of wheelsets (road and off-road) that would satisfy #2 and #3. However, for touring a suspension fork is less than optimal and all the racks would be just an extra weight and bulk for a mountain bike.

I was overhauling my commuter bike this week (new cables, adjusted brakes and gears, etc) and I realized that I really like that Nashbar frame. I think the key here is here to realize that just because it's a $99 aluminum frame it doesn't mean it's a bad frame. There is a lot of attention to detail there and it can be build up with a susp fork as a mountain bike or a rigid fork, thin tires and racks to be a commuter, tourer or whatever bike. So it occured to me that, considering the price, this frame is likely the way to go.

I think I fell into that mindset for a while that I need a fancy steel frame to be happy. Maybe not? With the Nashbar frame and Deore level parts I can build up a nice bike for under $1k. Does it really need to be fancy to be fun? I remember the most fun I had on a bike was when I had a $200 dept store MTB and I was oblivious to all the "requirements" for a decent bike and I was riding every weekend having a blast. I think I got to the point that I was spending too much time and mental energy (and money too) on over-thinking rather than riding.

As I said before, I will stop trying to reinvent the wheel. I will built two simple, purposeful bikes and just start riding them.
AdamDZ is offline  
Old 05-01-11, 07:09 PM
  #155  
FunkyStickman
On a Mission from God
 
FunkyStickman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Thibodaux, LA
Posts: 2,010

Bikes: '10 Surly LHT, Rat-rod Klunker, '82 Peugeot PH12 Centennial

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rock on, man. I wish I could take it off your hands, but the truth is, I couldn't ditch the car either, and I wound up building a touring/commuter bike instead of a cargo. It kinda sucks, but on the other hand, it's a killer bike, I'm sure somebody will enjoy it and need it.
FunkyStickman is offline  
Old 05-01-11, 07:13 PM
  #156  
AdamDZ
Bike addict, dreamer
Thread Starter
 
AdamDZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Queens, New York
Posts: 5,165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by FunkyStickman View Post
Rock on, man. I wish I could take it off your hands, but the truth is, I couldn't ditch the car either, and I wound up building a touring/commuter bike instead of a cargo. It kinda sucks, but on the other hand, it's a killer bike, I'm sure somebody will enjoy it and need it.
And if not, all the parts can be used to build another bike I don't want to wait too long or I'll miss some good ridin'... I want to build a touring bike by the end of May and then the MTB by some time in Summer. So I will wait a week and if no takers I'll strip it down and reuse the parts. I'm sure the frame and the xtracycle accessories will be easier to sell alone than the whole bike.
AdamDZ is offline  
Old 05-01-11, 07:24 PM
  #157  
AdamDZ
Bike addict, dreamer
Thread Starter
 
AdamDZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Queens, New York
Posts: 5,165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by dwnptrl_777 View Post
My heart is deep in the woods. Has been since birth.
Speaking of which, I am working towards moving out of NYC no later that the end of the next year so I can be closer to the woods too! The urban jungle is killing me. I wasted a large chunk of my life trying to adjust to the life in the big city, it was a mistake.
AdamDZ is offline  
Old 05-02-11, 04:14 AM
  #158  
vXhanz
I'm Rad.
 
vXhanz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 366

Bikes: 2008 Allez (Sold), 2009 Surly LHT (Sold), 2014 Motobecane Fantom Cross Pro

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Well I was surprised to read that when it came across, but all the points you indicate are valid and stuff I never would have considered. Thanks for posting the build as well as your trial and error with it.

It's funny you mention the simplicity of riding a cheaper bike... my friend and I were out riding the trail yesterday talking about the riding we did as kids. Hard plastic seats, single speed, coaster brakes, etc. and we didn't care and just rode the crap out of them. Now? Gears, special seats, special gear for riding, etc, etc. The list goes on and on. The bike starts to get so expensive that you don't want to ride it for fear of scratching it up, or locking it outside of the store without worrynig about it getting stolen, etc. At least that's where I'm at with my biking experience.

V
vXhanz is offline  
Old 05-02-11, 04:38 AM
  #159  
Dan Burkhart 
Senior member
 
Dan Burkhart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Posts: 7,277
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 537 Post(s)
Liked 19 Times in 16 Posts
Sorry to hear it didn't work out for you Adam.You did a great build. Too bad you couldn't find a way to hang onto it if you're planning to move out of the city. It may fit into your life better in your next locale.
Dan Burkhart is offline  
Old 05-02-11, 06:16 AM
  #160  
skijor
on by
 
skijor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 938

Bikes: Waterford RS-33, Salsa Vaya, Bacchetta Giro 20 ATT

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 593 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times in 9 Posts
The folding CF BD with self-retracting wide loaders will be out in 2012...complete with the most awesome titanium kickstand which doubles as a bottle opener, U-lock, and ninja star. Interested?
skijor is offline  
Old 05-02-11, 10:11 AM
  #161  
vik 
cyclopath
 
vik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 5,264

Bikes: Surly Krampus, Surly Straggler, Pivot Mach 6, Bike Friday Tikit, Bike Friday Tandem, Santa Cruz Nomad

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I couldn't live with my BD if the wideloaders were on 24/7 either - it's too wide to be useful unless you are hauling stuff constantly. With the wideloaders stuffed in the freeloader bags I can deploy then quickly as needed, but that means the kickback centrestand is a no go. Funny thing is I got my BD when I lived in a small downtown apartment and was surprised how easy it was to get in and out of the building. Way easier than my touring bike + Bob trailer.

I've bought bikes in the past that I thought were going to be great and they didn't last. Some things you have to try to see what happens. Good luck on your future projects.
__________________
safe riding - Vik
VikApproved
vik is offline  
Old 05-02-11, 10:22 AM
  #162  
AdamDZ
Bike addict, dreamer
Thread Starter
 
AdamDZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Queens, New York
Posts: 5,165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by vik View Post
I couldn't live with my BD if the wideloaders were on 24/7 either - it's too wide to be useful unless you are hauling stuff constantly. With the wideloaders stuffed in the freeloader bags I can deploy then quickly as needed, but that means the kickback centrestand is a no go. Funny thing is I got my BD when I lived in a small downtown apartment and was surprised how easy it was to get in and out of the building. Way easier than my touring bike + Bob trailer.

I've bought bikes in the past that I thought were going to be great and they didn't last. Some things you have to try to see what happens. Good luck on your future projects.
Oh, I ended up removing the wideloaders eventually. For the kind of weight I was carrying the bags themselves were holding up well. And I was wrong: they didn't interfere with the brake and RD after all.

The problem is that when I roll the BD in head first into the apartment I can't easily turn it around (that's where the carnage starts: hitting furniture, walls, door frames). A straight narrow hallway leads to my doorway so backing out is difficult. Backing in with loaded bags is even harder.

With the trailer, I can roll into the hallway, detach the trailer, roll the bike into the apartment, turn it around, park it aside and then pull the trailer in, unload it and store it in a different room. To get out I would do the reverse: roll the bike into the hallway, attach the trailer and roll both straight out. In my particular case BD is really hard to maneuver.

On a nice day I could unload it and carry the cargo in but that doesn't solve the problem entirely plus, we've had lots of cold, rainy days that I'd just rather get inside quickly.
AdamDZ is offline  
Old 05-02-11, 12:46 PM
  #163  
vXhanz
I'm Rad.
 
vXhanz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 366

Bikes: 2008 Allez (Sold), 2009 Surly LHT (Sold), 2014 Motobecane Fantom Cross Pro

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Adam, is there nothing you can do to save the beast or is your significant other dead set against it?
vXhanz is offline  
Old 05-02-11, 01:42 PM
  #164  
qmsdc15
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Maryland
Posts: 5,155

Bikes: rockhopper, delta V, cannondale H300, Marin Mill Valley

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Can you leave it at your girlfriend's place and tell your wife you sold it?

Haha

I never drank the koolaid. Giving your wife (and/or girlfriend) a ride on it is the only thing you can do with a long bike that you can't do with with a trailer. If's she's not into it, what's the point?

I totally agree about the advantages of trailer vs. long bike. Concerning handling, I can easily do no-handed track stands with three hundred pounds on my trailer. I can carry much bigger loads than a Dummy bike. Bike and trailer fit in the space under the stairs. Etc.

Don't quit getting groceries with your trailer. Driving is totally bogus dude and you know it. Haha.
qmsdc15 is offline  
Old 05-02-11, 01:56 PM
  #165  
AdamDZ
Bike addict, dreamer
Thread Starter
 
AdamDZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Queens, New York
Posts: 5,165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by vXhanz View Post
Adam, is there nothing you can do to save the beast or is your significant other dead set against it?
It does take up a lot of space in the hallway. I can keep one bike and a trailer in my room but I can't keep a BD in here, so it sits in the hallway and it is indeed an obstruction. She also sees no advantage over my trailer.

Originally Posted by qmsdc15 View Post
Can you leave it at your girlfriend's place and tell your wife you sold it?

Haha

I never drank the koolaid. Giving your wife (and/or girlfriend) a ride on it is the only thing you can do with a long bike that you can't do with with a trailer. If's she's not into it, what's the point?

I totally agree about the advantages of trailer vs. long bike. Concerning handling, I can easily do no-handed track stands with three hundred pounds on my trailer. I can carry much bigger loads than a Dummy bike. Bike and trailer fit in the space under the stairs. Etc.

Don't quit getting groceries with your trailer. Driving is totally bogus dude and you know it. Haha.
Wife has her own hardtail MTB with panniers and she likes riding that. When we go shopping she rides that and I ride my commuter with a trailer attached. Maybe we're too old but neither of us thinks much about giving her a ride on the BD So yeah, there ya go!

Oh, yeah, and that too: with a loaded BD I have to come to a dead stop with feet down; and with a trailer I can stand often briefly enough to wait for a light or whatever it is that is stopping me. Also, the trailer is much easier and quicker to load and unload (it's a large plastic bin/tote with a lid).
AdamDZ is offline  
Old 05-02-11, 02:19 PM
  #166  
jdswitters
Senior Member
 
jdswitters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Fort Collins CO
Posts: 831

Bikes: Torker Graduate, Framed Minnesota1.0, Salsa Fargo, 2014 &2013 Felt NBBcruiser, '59 magneet path racer,

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Bummer, I enjoyed reading about the build, even fantasized about getting a cargo bike, but in the end I know I wont carry more than what I do right now in my baskets on the commuter. I even had stem cap envy and ordered my own stem captain. I hope you find the bike(s) that work for you.
jdswitters is offline  
Old 05-02-11, 02:35 PM
  #167  
AdamDZ
Bike addict, dreamer
Thread Starter
 
AdamDZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Queens, New York
Posts: 5,165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by jdswitters View Post
Bummer, I enjoyed reading about the build, even fantasized about getting a cargo bike, but in the end I know I wont carry more than what I do right now in my baskets on the commuter. I even had stem cap envy and ordered my own stem captain. I hope you find the bike(s) that work for you.
Don't feel bad, I'm not that bummed The longtails do have something about them that makes them desirable, just check out the threads around here, but a lot of people probably don't really need them, such as um...me I'm glad you discovered the Stem Captain because of my post!

If I had the space I'd have kept it and perhaps eventually put it to good use. But right now space is at premium and I need a light touring/weekend bike so yeah, the BD has to go.
AdamDZ is offline  
Old 05-02-11, 02:46 PM
  #168  
qmsdc15
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Maryland
Posts: 5,155

Bikes: rockhopper, delta V, cannondale H300, Marin Mill Valley

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Trick to no handed track stands with trailer. Left foot on hitch to put some weight on the wider base of support a two wheel trailer provides. Don't put too much weight on the tow bar though. You can flip the trailer onto it's side! You don't have to ask me how I know.

Welcome back from the dark side.

(Just kidding, I know many find long bikes to be very useful.)

If you had small kids or a woman who doesn't prefer to ride her own bike, it would make more sense.

Congrats on giving it a try though. I haven't followed your thread closely because I'm not interested in this type of bike. I have checked in occasionally and thought your bike was coming along nicely. Sorry it didn't work out for you.
qmsdc15 is offline  
Old 05-02-11, 10:08 PM
  #169  
owenfinn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Yokohama, Japan
Posts: 495

Bikes: Marin Muirwoods 29er, Yuba Mundo, Dahon Boardwalk D7

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
My longtail cargo bike has made car-free living in the city so much easier for me and my family, but I couldn`t imagine having one if I still lived in Queens (or anywhere in NYC). Looking back, there just wasn`t anyplace I could possibly store the thing. Bringing it inside might have been OK, in some places - if I was single, but no matter how useful my wife thinks the Mundo is, there is no way she`d ever let me keep it in our apartment. Here, most apartments have bicycle parking areas for residents so I keep the bike locked outside under a shelter(I cover it with a big motorcycle rain cover).



It would be interesting to know more about the demographics of longtail cargo bike owners. I`d imagine most longtail owners living in the city are single, and most longtail owners are people with families living in the suburbs.
owenfinn is offline  
Old 05-06-11, 11:53 PM
  #170  
colinmcnamara
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: San Ramon
Posts: 112

Bikes: Trek Road Bike, Weyless MTB

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by owenfinn View Post
It would be interesting to know more about the demographics of longtail cargo bike owners. I`d imagine most longtail owners living in the city are single, and most longtail owners are people with families living in the suburbs.
I'd imagine that most people living in the city are single, and that most people living in the suburbs have families

(Wife + 2 kids + Longtail big dummy living in the burbs)
colinmcnamara is offline  
Old 05-07-11, 03:19 PM
  #171  
Schwinnrider
Mirror slap survivor
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sunny Florida
Posts: 1,297

Bikes: Gunnar Sport, Surly Pacer, Access MTB, Ibex Corrida, one day a Simple City

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
It does seem that a longtail would be much easier for someone who had a garage or storage building. I have three bikes inside my apartment, but a Big Dummy would be difficult to deal with. That being said, when I buy my house, a Big Dummy is on the list.
Schwinnrider is offline  
Old 05-07-11, 08:10 PM
  #172  
megalowmatt
Senior Member
 
megalowmatt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: North County San Diego
Posts: 1,664
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Adam - sorry to see the Big Dummy go. You did a great job on that build and I really enjoyed following the thread.
megalowmatt is offline  
Old 05-14-11, 10:43 AM
  #173  
bugly64
Share the road.
 
bugly64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Marysville, CA
Posts: 1,238

Bikes: 2012 Salsa Fargo, Rocky Mountain Fusion, 2013 Santa Cruz Tallboy LTc, 2015 Teammachine SLR03, Yuba Mundo, 2008 Brompton M3L

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I really enjoyed your build; it reminded me of my experience last year. I thought a mtb was the end of bike for me in 08.

My Big Dummy resides in the garage beside my '75 240d Mercedes. I would have liked commuting but it's more than dangerous here and it takes me 1.25 hours one way. In Montana I endured -30F, snow, and really bad winds, but it was only 3 miles each way. I use the Dummy for family rides, recycling, and small grocery/Walmart hauls. Besides, we have a little one and I can't wait to get a peepod.

Last edited by bugly64; 05-14-11 at 10:44 AM. Reason: left out somethin
bugly64 is offline  
Old 05-25-11, 08:59 AM
  #174  
AdamDZ
Bike addict, dreamer
Thread Starter
 
AdamDZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Queens, New York
Posts: 5,165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
OK, so it's done: I disassembled it and sold the frame and the xtracycle parts a couple of days ago.
AdamDZ is offline  
Old 06-08-11, 11:08 PM
  #175  
KDC1956
Senior Member
 
KDC1956's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 671

Bikes: Surly LHT 52cm Nice Bicycle I think.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Big Dummy

Well at least I know what mine will look like in a way.My hat off to you.You really did do a great job on the BD.I am getting the BD frame soon here to in a 18".But I want cantilever breaks on my setup.I want to just ride it and have fun with it.Its a bicycle that you can do so much with.Even tho I have a great Surly LHT setup that I love and the money I have in that ride lol.The BD will be the same way I will lots of money in it too.
KDC1956 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.