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Old 03-02-15, 08:34 AM
  #2026  
queerpunk
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Baranoski's dad was the one telling me about DA rings warping under his son (the 0.1%).
Yeah if you can medal in a Track World Cup keirin, you're allowed to warp chainrings and not have that be a reflection on the quality of the chainring.
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Old 03-02-15, 08:56 AM
  #2027  
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Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
I have a full set of both FSA and DA rings. Some observations:

DA ring teeth are hobbed. FSA's teeth are machined. This gives the DA teeth a more accurate profile for better chain meshing (there is a lot of backlash with FSA rings; very little with DA) and makes the rings rounder. They are also nickel plated which seems to make them last longer. Because less attention is paid to the tooth profile with FSA rings, they take a bit of time to break in. There is no such break-in period necessary with DA rings.

DA rings are made from beefy aluminum stock. I've never heard of anyone warping one.

The machined out bits are really helpful for weight. DA rings are easily half the weight (for, say, a 50 tooth) of the FSA.

The FSA rings work well. The DA rings are really nice. I'd go DA (or Campy or Sugino) if you can afford them. The FSAs are yeoman rings. I don't know why anyone would go to any great lengths to find them. I got them because in the States, they are the cheapest option amongst legit track racing chainrings and freely available from many sources. They worked really well for me for a number of years, but they aren't anything special.
It's an experience thing. I also bought the FSAs while in the US and was happy with them for the price and saw lots of people on the track using them. I've only had FSAs and Zen rings so far which are on the opposite end of a quality chainring. I haven't ridden a FSA for quite a while (replaced my 49T with a Zen and the 51T doesn't get much use) but I do now recall that they were a bit harsher.

Thanks for the input, will probably go for Zens in the end since I won't get anything good for $55 around here.
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Old 03-02-15, 11:13 AM
  #2028  
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Originally Posted by taras0000 View Post
I would be weary of ordering from velodromeshop.net. Have heard many horror stories about parts ordered not arriving, small items from same order being shipped separately and being charged twice for the shipping, as well as non-notification of backordered items. A friend had ordered a Casco Warp helmet and they didn't have it in stock. Was charged for the order, waited a month, called them and was told that they didn't have it in stock and were waiting for it to ship from the warehouse. I haven't personally ordered from there, but have friends that have had problematic dealings. No-one got ripped off, just really bad customer experience from all the things I have heard.
+1 on this exactly- right down to the Casco! Taras maybe we have a friend? Or velodrome shop does that all the time! (More likely)
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Old 03-02-15, 03:49 PM
  #2029  
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Ive used velodromeshop about 4 times now and its free shipping and the only time they screwed my order was gave me CS EVO instead of CS Elite tires (I needed a spare set of both so wasn't the worst thing for me).

Shipping takes a while but everything does to Canada. No duty and free shipping is worth any wait here.
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Old 03-02-15, 10:15 PM
  #2030  
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Originally Posted by Quinn8it View Post
+1 on this exactly- right down to the Casco! Taras maybe we have a friend? Or velodrome shop does that all the time! (More likely)
This has everything to do with how they've set up their business. They're just a drop shipper that uses DMS drop shipping service. So when they say they're waiting on a shipment to come in, or that they are out of stock on that item because it hasn't shown up yet, they are full of it. There are whole threads of their crappy service and lies to customers when things don't ship out on time.
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Old 03-03-15, 07:40 AM
  #2031  
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I also have used Velodromeshop twice now, and both times it was great communication, and fast (and FREE) shipping. Once i ordered crankset, cogs, chain and such. But the other time I only ordered a single chainring. All free shipping.

Compared the prices around, and actually their prices came out to be better than most. Plus they sent it by Royal Mail / Canada Post (and marked lower price), so no duties as well.

So far, so good...
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Old 03-03-15, 09:53 AM
  #2032  
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Originally Posted by myth001 View Post
I also have used Velodromeshop twice now, and both times it was great communication, and fast (and FREE) shipping. Once i ordered crankset, cogs, chain and such. But the other time I only ordered a single chainring. All free shipping.

Compared the prices around, and actually their prices came out to be better than most. Plus they sent it by Royal Mail / Canada Post (and marked lower price), so no duties as well.

So far, so good...
This is good to know. I need to order some stuff shortly. I have 2 orders from Wiggle I am waiting on. First time I've ordered from them. Will be interesting to see if I get hit with duties. I split my order into 2 shipments to keep total value lower in hopes of increased chances that it flies under the radar. I have a 50-60% success rate of no extra $$ when ordering from UK.
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Old 03-03-15, 10:32 AM
  #2033  
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Originally Posted by nspace View Post
This is good to know. I need to order some stuff shortly. I have 2 orders from Wiggle I am waiting on. First time I've ordered from them. Will be interesting to see if I get hit with duties. I split my order into 2 shipments to keep total value lower in hopes of increased chances that it flies under the radar. I have a 50-60% success rate of no extra $$ when ordering from UK.
My regular go-to online stores are Pro Bike Kit, Wiggle, Merlin, Evans and Chain reaction. Bike-discount.de has good prices generally, and has a set of wheels at the lowest price that I'm interested in. I may give them a shot.
And my first 2 orders from Velodromeshop also have been satisfying.

Other stores I usually keep in mind, or have shopped at once or twice are: Euro-Bike, Ribble, Planet Cyclery, Shiny Bikes and BikeBlingKit (under maintenance through the winter).
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Old 03-03-15, 01:25 PM
  #2034  
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if there are other riders training, what's the etiquette for practicing track stands?
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Old 03-03-15, 01:48 PM
  #2035  
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Originally Posted by WhatsYoCadence View Post
if there are other riders training, what's the etiquette for practicing track stands?
do it on the infield.
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Old 03-03-15, 02:09 PM
  #2036  
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Originally Posted by WhatsYoCadence View Post
if there are other riders training, what's the etiquette for practicing track stands?
WYC, I think your hometrack is Kissena from what I gathered in other posts? I practice wherever there's space. In the infield as queerpunk said, the paved area between the parking lot and the track, or even the parking lot itself, provided it's not busy and there's space.
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Old 03-03-15, 02:24 PM
  #2037  
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My answer was too short.

On a small or narrow track, there's no room to practice a trackstand while people are training - unless there are VERY few people training, it's probably inconsiderate. You can practice on any incline, but people can only do track training on the track.

On a large or wide track, talk to the people who are training there. Practice near the rail on one of the straights. Do not suddenly start riding out of a trackstand downtrack. It's best done with there are few other people to disrupt.
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Old 03-03-15, 06:51 PM
  #2038  
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Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
My answer was too short.
Funny, my answer was going to be shorter - "Don't"

MAYBE - if there aren't many others out training, and you talk to all of them, and they are all quite okay with it - maybe then.
The delta in speed between riders is usually the cause of accidents, and this seems to maximize that issue (risk), so I'd think it pretty much isn't worth it. Were I the other person out on the track, maybe were I doing pursuit efforts at the bottom and you were staying completely above blue....

dunno, my run up to my A race (and season) was almost wrecked two years ago when on a 400m track, it was me and one other guy, and he was doing just about this.
I was doing 30" on, 30" off efforts along the black line - and even on a very shallow, very wide track he still came down on me just I was entering T3 - I couldn't do hardly anything about it - the rear wheel of my bike came all the way off the ground at high speed - and I saw my season/collarbones/teeth flash before my eyes -
Somehow, and I have literally no idea how, I got it down and didn't fall - but it simply isn't a good situation.

Anyhow, I had a bad experience - it didn't have to be bad, but the consequences can be pretty nasty if things go wrong.
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Old 03-03-15, 08:20 PM
  #2039  
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Originally Posted by Hida Yanra View Post
Funny, my answer was going to be shorter - "Don't"

MAYBE - if there aren't many others out training, and you talk to all of them, and they are all quite okay with it - maybe then.
The delta in speed between riders is usually the cause of accidents, and this seems to maximize that issue (risk), so I'd think it pretty much isn't worth it. Were I the other person out on the track, maybe were I doing pursuit efforts at the bottom and you were staying completely above blue....

dunno, my run up to my A race (and season) was almost wrecked two years ago when on a 400m track, it was me and one other guy, and he was doing just about this.
I was doing 30" on, 30" off efforts along the black line - and even on a very shallow, very wide track he still came down on me just I was entering T3 - I couldn't do hardly anything about it - the rear wheel of my bike came all the way off the ground at high speed - and I saw my season/collarbones/teeth flash before my eyes -
Somehow, and I have literally no idea how, I got it down and didn't fall - but it simply isn't a good situation.

Anyhow, I had a bad experience - it didn't have to be bad, but the consequences can be pretty nasty if things go wrong.
This is great to hear. Thank you everyone for your words.

What I've gathered-

Only do it if there are very few other riders and you get all of their consent.
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Old 03-03-15, 10:25 PM
  #2040  
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Originally Posted by WhatsYoCadence View Post
This is great to hear. Thank you everyone for your words.

What I've gathered-

Only do it if there are very few other riders and you get all of their consent.
basically.
and know what you have to do in order to stay out of their way.
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Old 03-04-15, 10:25 AM
  #2041  
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Why would you even need- or need to practice a track stand?
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Old 03-04-15, 10:49 AM
  #2042  
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So that in a match sprint you have the skills to not tip over or get forced into the lead when someone does it to you.
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Old 03-04-15, 10:52 AM
  #2043  
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people don't do that to me
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Old 03-04-15, 11:02 AM
  #2044  
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Originally Posted by nspace View Post
So that in a match sprint you have the skills to not tip over or get forced into the lead when someone does it to you.
Why not do this in the parking lot? I would say don't do track stands on the track surface at all if there is anyone else on the track. You know people don't have brakes out there, right?
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Old 03-04-15, 11:13 AM
  #2045  
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Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
Why not do this in the parking lot? I would say don't do track stands on the track surface at all if there is anyone else on the track. You know people don't have brakes out there, right?
I never advocated to practice it on the track. The question was why do you even need to practice track stands.
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Old 03-04-15, 11:14 AM
  #2046  
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or maybe just stop trying to simulate sprinting videos from the '80s with essentially unnecessary tactics...

if you need to practice your Track Stand- i would guess that you have no clue what result you would actually be yielding from such a technique. Most beginner sprinters confuse riding slow, contact and track stands with "controlling a race" and typically have no idea what they are trying to accomplish or what tactics would give them an edge against their opponent..

but- learning to stand still and balance is way easier than getting fast on a bike... so go ahead and spend your track time doing that
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Old 03-04-15, 11:24 AM
  #2047  
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Originally Posted by Quinn8it View Post
or maybe just stop trying to simulate sprinting videos from the '80s with essentially unnecessary tactics...

if you need to practice your Track Stand- i would guess that you have no clue what result you would actually be yielding from such a technique. Most beginner sprinters confuse riding slow, contact and track stands with "controlling a race" and typically have no idea what they are trying to accomplish or what tactics would give them an edge against their opponent..

but- learning to stand still and balance is way easier than getting fast on a bike... so go ahead and spend your track time doing that
I see that you are channeling your inner Steve Hill hahahaha

But, yeah, I think I've done a trackstand maybe once in comp in my few years of local/regional racing.

Playing Devil's Advocate: We have seen a lot of track stands from both men and women on the world level over the past couple of years.

But yeah, at the local level, it won't buy you much.
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Old 03-04-15, 11:46 AM
  #2048  
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This place could use a little HotBlack
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Old 03-04-15, 01:12 PM
  #2049  
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I assume this depends on the track. On a shorter track, like a 250 or Alpenrose, there is little or no advantage (and maybe even a disadvantage) of being in the trail position. On a 333 or 400m track, I can see how there might be a disadvantage in leading out the sprint and that track stands might have an application in those situations.
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Old 03-04-15, 01:26 PM
  #2050  
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Originally Posted by Brian Ratliff View Post
I assume this depends on the track. On a shorter track, like a 250 or Alpenrose, there is little or no advantage (and maybe even a disadvantage) of being in the trail position. On a 333 or 400m track, I can see how there might be a disadvantage in leading out the sprint and that track stands might have an application in those situations.
the way i see it, the higher a level you're at, the better it is to be at the front.

for low and mid-cat riders, there's quite an advantage to forcing your opponent to lead you out.
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