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A23's set up tubeless, worth doing?

Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational) This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like :The Dirty Kanza". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

A23's set up tubeless, worth doing?

Old 11-07-18, 11:48 AM
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masi61
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A23's set up tubeless, worth doing?

I ran Velocity A23 polished rims on my Dura Ace 7700 nine speed hubs all year using Vittoria latex tubes and Michelin Power tires (25mm size). I was pretty satisfied with the low rolling resistance, resistance to flats, and ability to get some increased comfort with slightly lower tire pressures.

I ride on the road in some real world conditions with a fair amount of chip seal or bikeways with pretty heavy debris after storms and such.
Well now my tires are worn out and I'm about to just run some Vittoria Corsa open tubular clinchers with the same Vittoria latex tubes. The rim tape is Velox.

But since I am replacing the tires, I just remembered that the Velocity A23's are "tubeless ready" rims - whatever this means. I have some tubeless Panaracers that I purchased from Excel Sports Boulder in 700 x25 that might be quite nice on these rims. I'm reluctant to do the install since I know it will involve tubeless rim tape, valves and using sealant. I do have some 3M 21mm tape that I got from eBay for this purpose and some valves that I purchased from Colorado Cyclist, along with a quart of Stan's sealant.

All the tubeless supplies were purchased originally to use on a disc wheelset with Velocity Aileron rims that I will be having built into White Industries CLD hubs this winter. These rims are a bit wider internally than the A23's so I suspect this will be even better than the A23's when run tubeless.

So I guess I am seeking feedback from any cyclocross/gravel riders who have successfully run the Velocity A23 rims tubeless. Does it work well? Is there anything I need to know? And since I already know that my existing setup with the latex inner tubes works quite well, should I leave well enough alone?

Thanks, all.
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Old 11-07-18, 04:48 PM
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The A23 is a not a good tubeless rim, in my opinion.

The A23 rims I built last Winter for my 650B conversion were supposed to be tubeless ready, but I think the design is weak in that there is no raised lip on the edge of the bead shelf to keep the tire seated. I tried to setup a pair of tubeless compatible Panaracer Gravelkings and they wouldn't stay seated if the pressure dropped below 10 psi or so - they'd drop off the bead shelf into the rim valley. So, I just didn't trust them to be run tubeless, and went back to tubes for these wheels.
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Old 11-07-18, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by tinkerbike View Post
The A23 is a not a good tubeless rim, in my opinion.

The A23 rims I built last Winter for my 650B conversion were supposed to be tubeless ready, but I think the design is weak in that there is no raised lip on the edge of the bead shelf to keep the tire seated. I tried to setup a pair of tubeless compatible Panaracer Gravelkings and they wouldn't stay seated if the pressure dropped below 10 psi or so - they'd drop off the bead shelf into the rim valley. So, I just didn't trust them to be run tubeless, and went back to tubes for these wheels.
Thanks for your reply. I saw some previous threads from years past showing how the Australian made A23's were definitely not tubeless compatible but the American made ones are. They have a shallow groove on the inside that presumably gives a place for the tight rim bead to go in order to successfully mount the tire. The fact that you say there is no raised lip is a bit concerning - makes me think that the tire could potentially blow off the rim if over-inflated? Or am I missing something?

Honestly, I am a bit confused because I thought I read somewhere that Enve tubeless rims are purposely beadless on the interior - what the purpose is of this I cannot tell you.

As much as I like the ride of these rims with the latex tubes, I will say that I have read that velox rim tape makes for a tight tire install. So even if I stick with clinchers and latex tubes, for my new tires I may change out the rim tape for thinner tubeless type rim tape (2 layers).
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Old 11-07-18, 06:49 PM
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If you look at other tubeless compatible rims, the better designs will have a lip at the edge of the bead shelf. When you initially inflate the tire with a burst of air the bead of the tire gets pressed over this lip, and it sits between the lip and the outside wall. The lip holds the bead of the tire in place. A23 rims don't have this lip, and they have a narrow bead shelf.

The tire isn't likely to blow off the rim if it's at pressure. But if you lose pressure, such as might happen if you have a puncture, without the lip on the bead shelf it can easily slip back into the valley where the spoke heads are located. This could then cause a catastrophic failure as the tire loses all pressure, dumps sealant and rolls off the rim.

Personally, I'm using 2 wraps of Velocity tubeless tape on my A23 rims. They fit the Panaracer Gravelking tires with tubes very well. I just don't trust them to be run tubeless. I tried it. The tires are not secure, and I don't think it will matter which tires are used, it's not the tires - it's the rim. To me it's simply not worth the risk.
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Old 11-07-18, 09:09 PM
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I have three sets of A23 rims. One set is tubeless ready, I've installed tubeless 700x30 Schwalbe G-One tires. This combination has been flawless. The tires were mounted with sealant and inflated with minimum effort or issues. They hold air well and I have never had a flat. This bike is used on pavement and gravel and the ability to run low air pressure without the risk of pinch flats is key.

The benefit of tubeless is less pronounced with road tires. Changing a tubeless tire or repairing a flat is a much more involved and messy process than regular tires with tubes. I don't use tubeless on tires 700x28 or smaller.
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Old 11-08-18, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv View Post
I have three sets of A23 rims. One set is tubeless ready, I've installed tubeless 700x30 Schwalbe G-One tires. This combination has been flawless. The tires were mounted with sealant and inflated with minimum effort or issues. They hold air well and I have never had a flat. This bike is used on pavement and gravel and the ability to run low air pressure without the risk of pinch flats is key.

The benefit of tubeless is less pronounced with road tires. Changing a tubeless tire or repairing a flat is a much more involved and messy process than regular tires with tubes. I don't use tubeless on tires 700x28 or smaller.
so the 700 x 25’s I like to run on this bike sounds like a no-go on these rims. 700 x 30 tubeless does sound like a nice option on a Trek Multitrack that I built wheels for using HED Belgium + rims.
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Old 11-08-18, 01:59 PM
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I've been running A23 rims tubeless with Specialized Roubaix Pro 2Bliss 30/32 tires for a couple of years with no problems at all. I used 2 layers of Stan's rim tape and Orange Seal Endurance sealant. Easy set up, though I did have to use compressed air to get them to pop into place initially. They have held air well at anywhere from 30 to 70 psi.
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Old 11-14-18, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by masi61 View Post


so the 700 x 25’s I like to run on this bike sounds like a no-go on these rims. 700 x 30 tubeless does sound like a nice option on a Trek Multitrack that I built wheels for using HED Belgium + rims.
Sorry, late to reply but a 700x25 on an A23 is fine, as long as its a tubeless tire. With our 25mm Aileron and 24mm Quill, we have no qualms about a 23c tire on either. Definitely use two wraps of our tape or equivalent.
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Old 11-14-18, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by seely View Post
Sorry, late to reply but a 700x25 on an A23 is fine, as long as its a tubeless tire. With our 25mm Aileron and 24mm Quill, we have no qualms about a 23c tire on either. Definitely use two wraps of our tape or equivalent.
Oh, thanks for the reply. When you say “as long as it is a tubeless tire”, I’m assuming that you’re saying to not use a “tubeless ready” tire such as certain Hutchinson ones are marked.

I just picked up a used Dura Ace 7850 tubeless ready wheelset circa 2008 or so. It has a narrow 15mm inner diameter. The interior channels look more defined for accepting a (squared off looking) tubeless tire bead. I may go ahead and use 700x23 Hutchinson tires on this wheelset for practice to see how it works out before I switch over to trying to set up the A23’s for tubeless.
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