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North Carolina bill to require bicycle registration/fee

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North Carolina bill to require bicycle registration/fee

Old 03-03-19, 12:29 PM
  #101  
JohnDThompson 
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Originally Posted by WizardOfBoz View Post
how much does a car damage a road over a year? On the other hand, cycling uses no fuel, so you decrease the fuel tax revenue used for road maintenance.
Since wear and tear on the roads is roughly proportional to vehicle weight, perhaps a tax or purchase surcharge based on vehicle weight applied to all vehicles (trucks, cars, motorcycles, bicycles) would be appropriate? It might be several hundred dollars for a heavy truck, but only a few pennies for a bicycle. That way nobody could whine about cyclists not paying their way (despite the fact that only federal and state level roads are funded by the fuel tax, while city and township roads are funded by property tax, regardless of whether you have a motor vehicle).
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Old 03-03-19, 01:26 PM
  #102  
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Of course the Political influence is heavier at the heavier vehicle weight end of the scale.. ..
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Old 03-03-19, 03:32 PM
  #103  
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Sign on to BWNC's letter! Join with BikeWalk NC in writing the governor and state rep

goto: https colon //goo.gl/forms/BKZGQWFbqngpwu1h1

Join with BikeWalk NC in writing the governor and state representatives to return funding for Active Transportation Projects and Programs.

March 2, 2019

Dear Governor Cooper and members of the North Carolina General Assembly,

There is no need to create new bicycle registration programs, to tax children and low income cyclists and overburden local, regional and state enforcement and regulatory agencies. The active transportation funding problem of today rests in the decisions of previous legislative bodies.

In 2013 when the North Carolina Department of Transportation (NCDOT) adopted its goals of implementing its "comprehensive statewide plan for improving bicycling and walking conditions across North Carolina", it focused on five main principles – mobility, safety, health, the economy and the environment. The NC General Assembly that same year, defunded that plan and has since directed NCDOT to spend billions of tax dollars on limited use roadway and turnpike projects, while defunding active transportation.

For six years, North Carolina has not funded any stand-alone bicycle or pedestrian projects. Rural and urban counties across the state have active transportation plans and projects that remain unfunded. Unfair financial burdens exist for local communities which limit their ability to: provide for active transportation, improve roadway safety, enrich their quality of life and placemaking, and enhance North Carolina’s economic vitality through a modern multimodal transportation system.

The undersigned individuals, BikeWalk NC and its organizational partners stand with nine other Regional Planning Organizations and other Metropolitan Planning Organizations that represent millions of North Carolina residents.

We ask that the North Carolina General Assembly provide direct funding that will allow the design, construction and prioritization of Stand-Alone Bicycle and Pedestrian Projects, facilitate safe active transportation facilities through the codification of North Carolina's Complete Streets Policy and remove the 2013 requirement for matching funds for infrastructure that connects and protects us all.
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Old 03-03-19, 06:38 PM
  #104  
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So

if you have a BMX or Track Bike that is only used at those facilities do you still need to pay your tax with this bill?
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Old 03-03-19, 07:05 PM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
No, I don't think I need or "ought" to support statments that are qualified with the words "probably" and "likely."

The Boston poster asked "Any questions?" I asked questions relevant to his post.

The poster from Boston tossed out a bunch of numbers about parking spaces at one station in response to the post that you cite that did not indicate anything about how many bike commuters ride anywhere or what impact MUP's have made on the number of commuters who switched to bike commuting as part of their commuting routine or how they previously commuted.

Perhaps you have an opinion, information or maybe even a question on the topic; or perhaps not.
I've ridden through the Alewife Station area dozens of times. It is at the confluence of three heavily trafficked mups and the T system. Literally thousands of bikes pass through there every day, some to connect to the trains, some just to switch between paths. I don't need to see a lot of data to know that those people would have to use some other form of transportation if the infrastructure didn't make some fairly long bike commutes possible. If some of that is drawing passengers from public transit, that's fine. Boston transit is pretty much running at or near capacity, with no drastic increases in capacity likely in the foreseeable future. Adding bikes at this point costs the taxpayers nearly nothing.

Frankly, if you see it in action, your "likely " and "probably" seem pretty silly.
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Old 03-04-19, 10:53 AM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
Since wear and tear on the roads is roughly proportional to vehicle weight, perhaps a tax or purchase surcharge based on vehicle weight applied to all vehicles (trucks, cars, motorcycles, bicycles) would be appropriate? It might be several hundred dollars for a heavy truck, but only a few pennies for a bicycle. That way nobody could whine about cyclists not paying their way (despite the fact that only federal and state level roads are funded by the fuel tax, while city and township roads are funded by property tax, regardless of whether you have a motor vehicle).
My thought exactly.

I'm not sure if NC does this, but it might be prudent to have reduced fees for certain work vehicles (I'm thinking of those involved in agriculture).
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Old 03-04-19, 12:55 PM
  #107  
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Visitor impact

Does this affect visitors bringing their bikes in from out of state?
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Old 03-04-19, 01:15 PM
  #108  
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What' next?

They want to charge cyclists for using the road? What's next? I walk on the road to. How about my shoes? Would I have to put a license plate on the back of my shoes? LOL Insurance? Property taxes?
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Old 03-04-19, 01:37 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by themp View Post
Just do not understand the need for this and the added policing this requires for law enforcement. And it seems you will get a plate to attach to your bicycle. For me I would just carry the registration card and forgo the plate.

https://trackbill.com/bill/north-car...ycles/1701849/
Because just like there are idiot vehicle drivers there are idiot bicyclists who cause accidents and/or injuries and a lot of people want there to be some way of tracking down such bicyclists and fining or otherwise penalizing them for risky behaviour that imperils others.

Cheers
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Old 03-04-19, 01:59 PM
  #110  
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Y'all are most likely getting all worked up for nothing. There were about 2,000 bills filed during the last session of the NC General Assembly and only about 150 became law. The sponsor is in the majority party but is not a major player so this bill's chances aren't zero but they're not good.

I have worked in the office of a state legislator and I can tell you that ridiculous bills get filed all the time by both parties. Many of them with no intention of ever even being considered much less passed.

I have seen many cases where the bill's own sponsor did not believe in the bill but filed it as a favor or to satisfy a persistant lobbyist or constituent. They let it sit in committee and die and go back and tell the interested party that they "did what they could."

This is just political BS. If they actually wanted to pass something like this they would slip it in as a provision in a larger "omnibus" style bill. The fact that this bill has been assigned to run the gauntlet of 4 separate committees before it could even reach the House floor tells you all you need to know about it's chances.
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Old 03-04-19, 02:19 PM
  #111  
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For what it's worth, ivI' spoken to my rep In the House (who also serves on the transportation committee.) He's opposed to this bill and doesn't think it will get out of committee. If by some chance it does, it has to clear four other committees before being brought to the floor for a vote. I got the feeling it has snowball's chance in Hell of becoming law. However, I plan to keep an eye on it.
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Old 03-04-19, 03:37 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by LongKayak View Post
For what it's worth, ivI' spoken to my rep In the House (who also serves on the transportation committee.) He's opposed to this bill and doesn't think it will get out of committee. If by some chance it does, it has to clear four other committees before being brought to the floor for a vote. I got the feeling it has snowball's chance in Hell of becoming law. However, I plan to keep an eye on it.

Thanks! I kind of suspected that when I googled the bill and found stories indicating it had been filed but quoting no one in support of the bill. This has "somebody's pet peeve" written all over it.
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Old 03-04-19, 03:38 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
Because just like there are idiot vehicle drivers there are idiot bicyclists who cause accidents and/or injuries and a lot of people want there to be some way of tracking down such bicyclists and fining or otherwise penalizing them for risky behaviour that imperils others.

Cheers
Can you provide examples to prove this theory? Can you list injuries and property damage?
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Old 03-04-19, 03:40 PM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by Cripes View Post
This is just political BS. If they actually wanted to pass something like this they would slip it in as a provision in a larger "omnibus" style bill. The fact that this bill has been assigned to run the gauntlet of 4 separate committees before it could even reach the House floor tells you all you need to know about it's chances.
This.
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Old 03-04-19, 04:15 PM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by Gresp15C View Post
At least this will permanently lay to rest the claim that cyclists aren't paying to use the roads.

Also, what about "read my lips, no new taxes?"
I live in NC and own 4 motor vehicles. I think I already pay my fair share to ride my bicycle on the road thank you.
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Old 03-04-19, 04:20 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by solman06 View Post
I live in NC and own 4 motor vehicles. I think I already pay my fair share to ride my bicycle on the road thank you.
Indeed, in my state, local roads that I actually ride on are paid for by my property taxes. The cost of maintaining roads at the state and federal level is mainly a subsidy to the heavy trucking industry.
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Old 03-04-19, 06:25 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Can you provide examples to prove this theory? Can you list injuries and property damage?
All you need to do is go out and ask people who've had a close call with a bicyclist who had disobeyed traffic laws or rules of the road. Those people, whether pedestrians or motor vehicle operators, and many others are the ones who are demanding that bicyclists be licensed. People want bicyclists to be accountable for their actions just like any other user of the road.

Most provinces here in Canada consider a bicyclist to be a vehicle when on the road and as such that bicyclist is supposed to follow the rules of the road. Far many times they don't and that leads to injury to others or even to the bicyclist. Drivers get right royally ticked off when bicyclists reckless behaviours such as running red lights causes the motorist to have to take violent evasive action or slam on the brakes to avoid hitting the errant bicyclist. That in turn often causes a motor vehicle accident.

I've been a bicyclist riding on the roads for over 60 years and there are times when even I wish that a bicycle had a license or some way of penalizing a bicyclist who causes or damn near causes and accident. The ONLY vehicular accident I had in that 60+ years of riding a bicycle was when a bicyclist zoomed out of a one way street and was riding the wrong direction and entered the VERY busy road i was on. the corner of the street he exited from was a blind corner and I had absolutely no chance to see him before I hit him. I was f40 miles from home and now had a bent front fork that hit the downtube when the front wheel was turned to the side. Fortunately I was able to pull the fork forward enough to get the wheel to clear the downtube so that I was able to limp home. The bike was a writeoff and that damn wrong way riding bicyclist got off scott free. If he'd had a license on the bike I could have notified the police that he'd left the scene of an accident.

Hpw many times have your read on these forums of hits and or near mosses of bicyclists caused by other bicyclists on MUPs or other shared pathways? Believe me it's a problem and from what i see and hear both in real life and on forums such as this the problem is getting worse hence the demands by a lot of people that bicycles on the roads be licensed.

At one time and for most of my bicycling life I was totally against bicycle licensing but now I'm not so sure. I see so many irresponsible bicyclist every day that i wonder not if bicycles will have to have a license but when.

Cheers
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Old 03-04-19, 07:00 PM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
All you need to do is go out and ask people who've had a close call with a bicyclist who had disobeyed traffic laws or rules of the road. Those people, whether pedestrians or motor vehicle operators, and many others are the ones who are demanding that bicyclists be licensed. People want bicyclists to be accountable for their actions just like any other user of the road.
s
Ok, got it.. so now we're at talking about 'close calls' as perceived by the pedestrians / drivers.
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Old 03-04-19, 07:42 PM
  #119  
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Cooler heads will realize that administering bike registrations will cost well over $10/bike that the fees bring in. IOW, the program is guaranteed to run deeply in the red. The alternative is to charge $50 for every kids' bike in the state. I can tell you from experience how that'll go over. It took our local PD 20 years to recover from that PR black eye...
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Old 03-04-19, 09:21 PM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Ok, got it.. so now we're at talking about 'close calls' as perceived by the pedestrians / drivers.
No you didn't get it. I'm talking about drivers and/or pedestrians who've been hit by bicyclists or who have had accidents whilst trying to avoid recklessly riding bicyclists. There have been cases where a pedestrian on the sidewalk was struck and KILLED by a bicyclist. How is the bicyclist to be identified? Like it or not there are a LOT of people who want to see bicycles licensed just like mopeds and/or motorcycles. I can find stats for the UK but not for Canada or the USA.

Cheers
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Old 03-05-19, 12:29 AM
  #121  
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Mr. meile Man ...

I have been cyclign on the road for about as long as you have.

I have yet to see a cyclist cause an accident. I am quite sure it has happened .... possibly when a driver tried to avoid a cyclist who shouldn't have been there.

However, you Opinions, aside, you offer no evidence. No actual numbers.

How much damage is a cyclist going to do to ac ar? How often have You seen tweo cars collide because of a cyclist? how often have you seen a car crash because of a cyclist?

As for injuries ... how many people have you seen killed or injured while driving or riding in a car, because a bicyclist caused a wreck?

You had one collisions with a stupid cyclist and now you hate cyclists ... except yourself.

Pretty much everything you are saying here, is just you explaining Your feelings, and has nothing to do with how drivers see cyclists. And I think you know that, but I don't expect you to admit it.

And by your own admission, exactly once in 60 years would bike licensing have paid off .... because you could have reported the guy. But ... you could have reported him anyway. So all this has Zero bearing on the lame piece of legislation we are discussing.

Sorry you had one bad incident. Glad it wasn't really even bad. Glad everyone made it home safely.

In over 50 years of riding on the road I have never been hit by a bicyclist nor seen a cyclist cause an auto accident. And apparently, neither have you. That was my question, pretty much. Thank you for answering.
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Old 03-05-19, 10:24 AM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
No you didn't get it. ... How is the bicyclist to be identified?
In the rare case of a cyclist hitting and killing a pedestrian, how is a license going to help identify the perp, that couldn't have been accomplished without it?
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Old 03-05-19, 12:19 PM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by BlazingPedals View Post
In the rare case of a cyclist hitting and killing a pedestrian, how is a license going to help identify the perp, that couldn't have been accomplished without it?

Let's not even try to calculate the likelihood that a cyclist who just hit and killed a pedestrian is going to be able to ride off--the notion that there will be a lot of incidents where someone could get the id number off of something small enough to fit on bike frame is really far-fetched, especially as the bike would likely be moving for it to matter. If the guy is stopped briefly, his picture is going to be a lot easier to get.

People rarely get the license plate numbers off of hit and run drivers, and that's big print.

.
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Old 03-06-19, 03:27 AM
  #124  
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Winter in Halifax Co. NC.
Sent a letter to our local State rep outlining my concerns about this proposed legislation.
It does appear to be on track to die in committee, but one can not be sure.
Continuing to monitor.
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Old 03-07-19, 12:48 PM
  #125  
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In the vein of taking nothing for granted, Asheville on Bikes just published a great list of reasons opposing north carolina bicycle registration.

One of the things pointed out in that list is the propaganda-like spread of news stories that normalized the idea. That's bad. If you get a chance, please link to that article from other websites you might have access to, so that people encounter that great list of flaws, instead of all the useless newscasts about the bill. You can see what I mean if you search for the phrase "north carolina bicycle registration" where all of the content showing makes this ridiculous law seem like it is a possibility. Hopefully it does die in committee.

Here's the list of reasons copied from their article:
  1. Bicycle registration laws don’t work.
  2. These laws lose money because it costs the state money to collect the tax.
  3. Laws like HB 157 are a slap in the face to your constituents.
  4. Bicycle registration will overwhelm the DMV and result in long lines for all.
  5. Bicycle registration and licensing will result in racial discrimination.
  6. It will decrease cycling, if enforced.
  7. The effects of this law are counter to economic development work in the region.
  8. It does not improve our ability to enforce our current road laws or resolve conflicts.
  9. It makes just a much sense as a shoe tax.
  10. Bicycle license laws violate all of the guidelines for “What makes a good law.”
  11. It perpetuates a “pay to play” myth regarding use of our taxes.
  12. Laws requiring licenses should be based on the likelihood of causing harm to others.
  13. This law creates no meaningful revenue that could benefit bicycle riders.
  14. It is foolish to allow a conflict between users on one single rural road to be used as grounds for regulating every cyclist in the state.
  15. Your representative may think proposing a law like this is a harmless way to appease a constituent. It’s not.
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