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Assisting a down cyclist when first-responders are already on site?

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Assisting a down cyclist when first-responders are already on site?

Old 04-18-19, 10:21 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad View Post
"Crime scene"?? What crime scene? Please scroll up to post 19. You've made a lot of stuff up about this event. It's kinda entertaining.

Do you understand that I did "stay out of the darn way"???

As a self-anointed advocate, I will continue to work with organizations to make the roads & trails safer and more inviting for all people that want to use bikes for transportation, fitness, fun, etc. This includes engagement with the local PD to help them be their best when they respond to a person injured while biking; therefore, there will be no need to "insert myself" in a "crime scene".

Fun talk ... cheers.
It's an unfortunate reality that when you post a topic, many will come in looking to turn it around on you. They think it's cute, clever or comical. It's not. It's a tired cliche, and it only serves to discourage meaningful discussion. Sometimes I take preemptive action in my posts and sometimes I let people make fools of themselves. You certainly had several here waiting in line to do so.
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Old 04-18-19, 10:59 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
It's an unfortunate reality that when you post a topic, many will come in looking to turn it around on you. They think it's cute, clever or comical. It's not. It's a tired cliche, and it only serves to discourage meaningful discussion. Sometimes I take preemptive action in my posts and sometimes I let people make fools of themselves. You certainly had several here waiting in line to do so.
Cops and ambulances there. A car had hit a bike. That's a potential crime. Therefore that's a crime scene.

No one turned anything around.
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Old 04-18-19, 11:15 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Skipjacks View Post
Cops and ambulances there. A car had hit a bike. That's a potential crime. Therefore that's a crime scene.

No one turned anything around.
You need to learn to read and comprehend - this is a large thread but not a massive thread, you can read it through in a few minutes. Moreover, I already told you directly which post has the key information. Therefore, it is clear to me that you're turning things around or don't care to read the information presented or simply trollolol ... Here's the cliff notes: There was a report of a car involved in the OP, and I later stated that there may not have been a car involved - I'm not sure, cause I stayed away and minded my own business. But please continue to make stuff up about an event you did not witness.

Oh and I thought you were outta here?? Please go back to advocating how people should or shouldn't obey traffic laws and other things that annoy you while bike commuting. Thanks!
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Old 04-18-19, 11:16 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
What a bunch of angst, misplaced aggression, and one good post from @Phil_gretz.

Some people really believe cops would not take care of an accident victim if that victim had been riding a bicycle. Really? Have Any real-world experience to back that up? ,or just a general sense that nobody likes cyclists? (By the way, paranoia is treatable. Seek help.)

"Advocate' for the victim? That is a meaningless phrase. Unless you are a witness, all you can do is get in the way. I don't think some random stranger walking up to the scene telling first responders, "I ride a bicycle, let me tell you what to do" is going to be helpful in any way.

The guy who helped phil_gretz was really helpful. And aside from suggesting that the bike go into the ambulance, there was nothing much the Good Samaritan did once the first responders arrived. So ... there is a real world lesson in how to "advocate" for a downed cyclist.
I know from experience that police can lie on accident reports with no repercussion. I don't expect police to be prejudgemental to cyclists, but it does happen.
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Old 04-18-19, 11:47 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Skipjacks View Post
I'm out.
Originally Posted by Skipjacks View Post
Cops and ambulances there. A car had hit a bike. That's a potential crime. Therefore that's a crime scene.

No one turned anything around.
Interesting that you didn't keep your word and that you came back to respond to a post that didn't single you out.
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Old 04-18-19, 11:54 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
Interesting that you didn't keep your word and that you came back to respond to a post that didn't single you out.
I'll post when and where I feel like posting, thank you.

I'm just not playing the OP's little semantics game anymore.

Let me summarize this thread...

OP: Should I have stuck my nose into this situation?

Thread: No. You had no business sticking your nose into that situation. Doing so would have been dangerous to interfere with the well trained first responders.

OP: Okay. Well I didn't stick my nose into that situation.

Thread: Good. It would have been stupid if you had.

OP: It would not have been stupid! I'm an advocate! That's a promotion from being a mere enthusiast! It would have been helpful! But I didn't actually stick my nose into the situation so you're not allowed to say it was a stupid idea because ambiguous insult of police officers!

Thread: No, seriously. It's a stupid idea whether you did it or not. Good job for not doing it. Being an advocate doesn't give you any authority to do anything. And cops are not bad guys.

OP: Why is everyone mad at me!? I'm an advocate! I promote biking! And I never said anything bad about cops!

Thread: Here is where you complain about cops.

OP: Straw man arguments everywhere! No one read the thread!

Thread: Yes. We did. It was a dumb idea to get involved. You didn't get involved so good job. Here's why it was a dumb idea so you understand and correctly choose not to get involved next time.

OP: NO ONE IS READING ANYTHING!!!!!

Thread: Okay.

Last edited by Skipjacks; 04-18-19 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 04-18-19, 12:29 PM
  #57  
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I sincerely hope none of us are at our best in these posting.
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Old 04-18-19, 12:36 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Skipjacks View Post
I'll post when and where I feel like posting, thank you.

I'm just not playing the OP's little semantics game anymore.

Let me summarize this thread...

OP: Should I have stuck my nose into this situation?

Thread: No. You had no business sticking your nose into that situation. Doing so would have been dangerous to interfere with the well trained first responders.

OP: Okay. Well I didn't stick my nose into that situation.

Thread: Good. It would have been stupid if you had.

OP: It would not have been stupid! I'm an advocate! That's a promotion from being a mere enthusiast! It would have been helpful! But I didn't actually stick my nose into the situation so you're not allowed to say it was a stupid idea because ambiguous insult of police officers!

Thread: No, seriously. It's a stupid idea whether you did it or not. Good job for not doing it. Being an advocate doesn't give you any authority to do anything. And cops are not bad guys.

OP: Why is everyone mad at me!? I'm an advocate! I promote biking! And I never said anything bad about cops!

Thread: Here is where you complain about cops.

OP: Straw man arguments everywhere! No one read the thread!

Thread: Yes. We did. It was a dumb idea to get involved. You didn't get involved so good job. Here's why it was a dumb idea so you understand and correctly choose not to get involved next time.

OP: NO ONE IS READING ANYTHING!!!!!

Thread: Okay.
WOW! It's awesome to have you sum up a thread with only 56 posts - and a significant number of the posts are yours - and yet you can still fall flat on your face doing it. Plus you found a way to make yourself look like a hero and the Toad look like a cop hating !?&#. [/slow clap]

Last edited by Hypno Toad; 04-18-19 at 12:37 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 04-18-19, 12:38 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
I sincerely hope none of us are at our best in these posting.
I'm usually much snarkier.

Forgive me. It's an off day.

I'll do better next time.

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Old 04-18-19, 12:39 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
I sincerely hope none of us are at our best in these posting.
Yeah, probably not, but the important question is......... are we having a good time ? (i think it's been largely pretty funny! ):
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Old 04-18-19, 12:40 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad View Post
Plus you found a way to make yourself look like a hero and the Toad look like a cop hating !?&#.
Oh, you noticed?

See, I knew we could find common ground and agree on something.

I always say, if you just keep talking to people you'll eventually come to an agreement.
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Old 04-18-19, 12:41 PM
  #62  
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If you aren't there to offer first aid, didn't witness the incident, aren't related to anyone involved, and don't own the property where the incident occurred, you have nothing to offer. Get out of the way and let the first responders and/or police do their work. If you want to advocate for cyclists, join an advocacy organization, call your elected officials, and write letters to editor, but don't get in the way of people trying to work.
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Old 04-18-19, 12:46 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Skipjacks View Post
Oh, you noticed?

See, I knew we could find common ground and agree on something.

I always say, if you just keep talking to people you'll eventually come to an agreement.
You're my hero Keep using your super powers to misrepresent random strangers on the interwebs.

Last edited by Hypno Toad; 04-18-19 at 03:50 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 04-18-19, 02:55 PM
  #64  
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Speaking of cops, cops sure do like coffee. I'm not a cop, but I like coffee. Mommy, daddy, please stop fighting!

Go to my happy place, and have some coffee.


Damned if I can figure what this thread was about.
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Old 04-19-19, 06:20 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad View Post
I said "respect", not "mistreat", there is a significant difference. So you misread (misrepresented) the quote you used. Please check your personal biases and read the post as written, kthxbye.
Do you realize how ironic this statement is?
You are asking someone to check their personal biases in the middle of a thread that you started based upon your own personal biases towards a police office that you stated was openly hostile towards you.
The entire misguided point of your thread is that you were once mistreated so now are concerned that any/all other police officers will mistreat someone based upon your ‘personal’ experience.
The thread is the very definition of personal bias
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Old 04-19-19, 06:45 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by downhillmaster View Post
Do you realize how ironic this statement is?
You are asking someone to check their personal biases in the middle of a thread that you started based upon your own personal biases towards a police office that you stated was openly hostile towards you.
The entire misguided point of your thread is that you were once mistreated so now are concerned that any/all other police officers will mistreat someone based upon your ‘personal’ experience.
The thread is the very definition of personal bias
Reference post 22
Originally Posted by Hypno Toad View Post
I know that this is like herding cats ... but can we stop with this false narrative that somebody 'hates' all police officers because of one comment/story. With roughly 18,000 state and local law enforcement agencies and over 100,000 officers in the US - there some are heroes and some are low-lifes and a whole lot of officers between this two extremes.
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Old 04-19-19, 07:35 AM
  #67  
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Maybe people who don't want to be associated with a comment shouldn't make that comment the centerpiece of the third post of the thread? And in fact ... the Justification for the entire thread?

Not taking sides here---I think the whole discussion is ridiculous ... but the only reason anyone suggested "advocating" for a downed cyclist was because that person had a bad experience with a cop once. It is the Justification for the thread. The whole premise of the thread is that a cyclist needs an advocate because the cops are against cyclists.
Originally Posted by Hypno Toad View Post
Some police are openly hostile to people riding bikes …..
If the OP didn't want people to get that impression maybe the OP shouldn't have made a post saying that was the situation.

Oh, I'm sorry ... did that make too much sense?

(By the way ... I have personally experienced a cop lying on the witness stand about me. I know two others with similar experiences. And I am a big fan of cops in general. But I would never start a thread saying "Cops are liars" without explaining that I support all cops except the hundredth of a percent who are just bad people .... maybe next time the OP should read his own message before hitting "Submit Reply.")
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Old 04-19-19, 08:37 AM
  #68  
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Oh goody, we're back on track ! Is it too early for popcorn ?
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Old 04-19-19, 08:57 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Maybe people who don't want to be associated with a comment shouldn't make that comment the centerpiece of the third post of the thread? And in fact ... the Justification for the entire thread?

Not taking sides here---I think the whole discussion is ridiculous ... but the only reason anyone suggested "advocating" for a downed cyclist was because that person had a bad experience with a cop once. It is the Justification for the thread. The whole premise of the thread is that a cyclist needs an advocate because the cops are against cyclists.

If the OP didn't want people to get that impression maybe the OP shouldn't have made a post saying that was the situation.

Oh, I'm sorry ... did that make too much sense?

(By the way ... I have personally experienced a cop lying on the witness stand about me. I know two others with similar experiences. And I am a big fan of cops in general. But I would never start a thread saying "Cops are liars" without explaining that I support all cops except the hundredth of a percent who are just bad people .... maybe next time the OP should read his own message before hitting "Submit Reply.")
It is a thread, you know, more information comes up as the conversation evolves. And there are been some good/thoughtful posts in this thread that reinforce the way I reacted to the situation (stayed out of it). The thread does include the idea that police officers are failable - not evil or hateful - but with the help of a couple BFers, that's where this thread has gone and wasted a stupid amount of time.

Those that read one comment about one situation and assume a universe of attitudes from the poster, well they are kinda simple minded and lazy. Example, I am a financial supporter of local police:
Originally Posted by Hypno Toad View Post
By donating and volunteer with Our Streets, Minnetonka Mountain Bike Advocates, Bike Cops for Kids, Free Bikes for Kids, and many other local bike organizations ...
Moreover, I'm friends with some of the officers in my town. Frankly, if I'd walked over to the crash scene, I'd been greeted by name by at least one officer on the scene.

Another post by the Toad that helps show how a thread is an evolving dialog, not a hammered in stone statement:
Originally Posted by Hypno Toad View Post
Thank you, very good link! This reinforces what I have done when I am the first one on the scene; and this quote is basically why I didn't get involved, I did not witness the wreck and could not add anything to the investigation. Knowing the PD in my town is bike-friendly, I expected them to look out for the injured riders needs.
Those that take objection to me highlighting something that you yourself acknowledge - Police are not 100% heros - are clearing looking at this an excuse to get offended. I never made a blanket statement about all police, that's been done for me by the BFers in this thread that misrepresent me and my thoughts. A blanket statement I will post: in the suburbs, officers are typically car-focused people (at work and off work), they are like your neighbors that never use their rusty/dusty bike ... they don't understand some things that are unique to people that ride bikes. Does that make sense? In hindsight, it'd been better to say that then share the story about a cop being a dick that one time.

Of course, if I'd start the thread with my full life history and every experience I've had with police ... you'd all be like TLTR. [/shrug]

In summation, it is generally a pointless thread, I was clearing my head. Since I work a home-office with two dogs, I look to BF as a place to have that 'water cooler' talk (ie pointless conversations). Good talk, good talk.

(you're welcome, Brocephus )
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Old 04-19-19, 11:51 AM
  #70  
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This might be a good opportunity to discuss the right thing to do when you come upon a wrecked thread.
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Old 04-19-19, 11:58 AM
  #71  
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Old 04-19-19, 07:44 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad View Post
It is a thread, you know, more information comes up as the conversation evolves. And there are been some good/thoughtful posts in this thread that reinforce the way I reacted to the situation (stayed out of it). The thread does include the idea that police officers are failable - not evil or hateful - but with the help of a couple BFers, that's where this thread has gone and wasted a stupid amount of time.

Those that read one comment about one situation and assume a universe of attitudes from the poster, well they are kinda simple minded and lazy. Example, I am a financial supporter of local police:

Moreover, I'm friends with some of the officers in my town. Frankly, if I'd walked over to the crash scene, I'd been greeted by name by at least one officer on the scene.

Another post by the Toad that helps show how a thread is an evolving dialog, not a hammered in stone statement:


Those that take objection to me highlighting something that you yourself acknowledge - Police are not 100% heros - are clearing looking at this an excuse to get offended. I never made a blanket statement about all police, that's been done for me by the BFers in this thread that misrepresent me and my thoughts. A blanket statement I will post: in the suburbs, officers are typically car-focused people (at work and off work), they are like your neighbors that never use their rusty/dusty bike ... they don't understand some things that are unique to people that ride bikes. Does that make sense? In hindsight, it'd been better to say that then share the story about a cop being a dick that one time.

Of course, if I'd start the thread with my full life history and every experience I've had with police ... you'd all be like TLTR. [/shrug]

In summation, it is generally a pointless thread, I was clearing my head. Since I work a home-office with two dogs, I look to BF as a place to have that 'water cooler' talk (ie pointless conversations). Good talk, good talk.

(you're welcome, Brocephus )
Pointless. Just like your OP with it’s personal bias towards police and your silly backpedaling about it just being ‘water cooler’ talk.
Pretty sad that once you get called out you can’t even own up to your own words/opinion
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Old 04-19-19, 07:57 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by downhillmaster View Post
Pointless. Just like your OP with it’s personal bias towards police and your silly backpedaling about it just being ‘water cooler’ talk.
Pretty sad that once you get called out you can’t even own up to your own words/opinion
😂 LMAO!!! That's the funniest thing I've read in a long time. Thanks for making my night!
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Old 04-22-19, 11:48 AM
  #74  
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So, I'm not a cartoonist. But if I were, I'd sketch out the following single panel:

- 1st cyclist on ground, birds circling head
- bike on ground, obviously crashed
- Police standing by, notepad at ready
- 2nd cyclist straddling own bike, indicating, "fork's bent" to the 1st cyclist

I thought that might be funny in a BikeForums kind of way. I dunno...
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Old 04-22-19, 12:10 PM
  #75  
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Recent Crashee

Went down hard on rail trail. Tried to stand, but painful left leg and arm. A few small parts came off, bar end plug, light. Several walkers spent close to an hour with me after I called 911, as EMS drove along a parallel road looking for me! Needed partial hip replacement, second degree shoulder separation. Recovery going great after 4 weeks.

As others have stated, assist if there first, otherwise stay back and offer to take bike. Fortunately for me EMT ( a cyclist) took my $$$ CX bicycle in cab and I called a friend to collect it at emergency.
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