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Will you ever go disc?

Road Cycling ďIt is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.Ē -- Ernest Hemingway

Will you ever go disc?

Old 04-28-19, 08:21 PM
  #151  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
The people have spoken, but you might not like their answer.

Everyday people come into my shop to buy road bikes, and nearly everyone says they want disc brakes. Some people buy bikes with rim brakes, but not many specify that they don't want discs.
I come in wanting work on a coaster brake bike. Dude's closing next month too.
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Old 04-28-19, 08:57 PM
  #152  
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Bought my ďforeverĒ wheelset in 2017, and I would never have done so if the wheel were a wear item. With discs, I can forego the worry.

As for wheel swaps, Iím confused by how they complicate things. 160mm rotors on every wheel here, and they go from bike to bike to bike with nary a complaint.

And none of the rims show any signs of brake wear.
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Old 04-28-19, 08:58 PM
  #153  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Ironically this is part of the reason I use discs. I've worn enough brake tracks out. I have nicer wheels now than I was willing to spend on when they were a wear item.
I believe we have the same wheels, and the same reasoning.
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Old 04-29-19, 06:56 AM
  #154  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
My disc brakes are silent, unless itís raining.

Riding in the rain, with a group, brake noise is actually a benefit. It lets everyone know what you are doing, without a word.
Maybe it's just a maintenance thing? I've noticed a lot of people don't seem to be as particular with maintenance, a lot of noisy drivetrains, etc.
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Old 04-29-19, 11:38 AM
  #155  
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I got a new roadie last year, it came with Ultegra R8000 rim brakes. They aren't quite disc brake level performance, but they are a huge improvement over any rim brake I've ever had in the past. I haven't been caught in the rain with it yet but wouldn't expect them to help too much with wet rims, but I'm sure I'll find out.
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Old 04-29-19, 11:43 AM
  #156  
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Originally Posted by Rides4Beer View Post
Maybe it's just a maintenance thing? I've noticed a lot of people don't seem to be as particular with maintenance, a lot of noisy drivetrains, etc.
It's a pad material thing, Shimano resin pads are silent unless they are wet. Metallic brake pads last longer, but they can be very noisy.

Poor drivetrain maintenance drives me crazy, but that's a different issue.
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Old 04-29-19, 12:14 PM
  #157  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
No. I'm not one for fads and solutions to problems I don't have.
You're right in that you may not have the stopping problem. I wish I had the budget (read spousal approval) to purchase the frame, disc brakes, and wheels for a "modern" touring bicycle. Loaded touring bikes coming through the Appalachians in the rain made me want more stopping power. As to discs being a fad, I'm not sure. We follow the technology and trends of motorcycles and cars to some extent - of course not all is applicable. I'll not go back to drum brakes given the choice, but you're right I'm not planning my next used truck purchase based on disc vs drum brakes.

Being a fan of British bikes, I've always wanted to compare the stopping power of those old tourers with three speeds (maybe), and what looks-like push-rod brakes. To those vintage riders, the center-pull rim brakes would be the fad.

Thanks,
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Old 04-29-19, 12:56 PM
  #158  
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Originally Posted by Rides4Beer View Post
Maybe it's just a maintenance thing? I've noticed a lot of people don't seem to be as particular with maintenance, a lot of noisy drivetrains, etc.
Loud brakes save lives?
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Old 04-29-19, 01:16 PM
  #159  
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There are only two really compelling reasons for discs on road bikes 1) long mountain descents 2) carbon rims. If those don't apply to you, too bad because the mainstream bike brands are not going to offer new high-end road bikes with rim brakes any more. And thru axles will come along with discs, so you're stuck with those, too. The industry is desperate for new tech to talk about on road bikes, and it's relatively easy to borrow already-developed mtn bike tech like these and put them on road bikes, even if some roadies don't want them. Lastly, in a liability lawsuit where the guy didn't stop in time, or got hurt because he didn't close his wheel QR properly, the bike companies that changed to discs and thru axles have their butts covered, but the ones that keep selling "dangerous" bikes with rim brakes and QR axles will suffer.
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Old 04-29-19, 01:29 PM
  #160  
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Originally Posted by carlos danger View Post
Seeing as most makers now make road bikes with discs I wonder if most people will transition to discs or simply continue to run rim brakes until the end of time.

Personally I've been on discs since 2008. And I kinda like them. I only have one bike with rim brakes and I pretty much only use it when its dry and sunny outside so I have no problems with them. They work just as good as discs in those conditions.
Will probably continue running rim brakes until the end of my life, but probably not till the end of time. Mostly due to the investment I've made in race wheels. That said, If I were to buy a new bike, I'd definitely look at disc brakes. That in spite of the fact that I can lock up the cantilevers on my old Stumpjumper in any kind of weather.
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Old 04-29-19, 01:41 PM
  #161  
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Originally Posted by carlos danger View Post
Seeing as most makers now make road bikes with discs I wonder if most people will transition to discs or simply continue to run rim brakes until the end of time.

Personally I've been on discs since 2008. And I kinda like them. I only have one bike with rim brakes and I pretty much only use it when its dry and sunny outside so I have no problems with them. They work just as good as discs in those conditions.

Hi!! Yes, I wouldn't mind discs, but only with four-fingers cross-style brake-levers, to keep the weight at the back! (It's a matter of weight-distribution!!)
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Old 04-29-19, 02:19 PM
  #162  
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A serious question from a guy who has never done discs. How much work is it to "swap cockpits" on a bike, ie fully setup handlebars, stem and levers. How long would the swap take? I do this often. With quill stems, it takes 5 minutes and I can do it immediately before I rode with no worries at all. (It's fun. That quick change turns the bike into a completely different animal, from a classic road bike to a bike that shines going up all-day climbs and the following descents.)

On the bike I have been doing this on for the past 8 years, the calipers stay with the cockpit. Front stays hooked up. On the rear, I have to disconnect the cable to pull through the braze-ons. All very quick and easy as is installing the other cockpit and brakes.

Ben
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Old 04-29-19, 02:23 PM
  #163  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
A serious question from a guy who has never done discs. How much work is it to "swap cockpits" on a bike, ie fully setup handlebars, stem and levers. How long would the swap take? I do this often. With quill stems, it takes 5 minutes and I can do it immediately before I rode with no worries at all. (It's fun. That quick change turns the bike into a completely different animal, from a classic road bike to a bike that shines going up all-day climbs and the following descents.)

On the bike I have been doing this on for the past 8 years, the calipers stay with the cockpit. Front stays hooked up. On the rear, I have to disconnect the cable to pull through the braze-ons. All very quick and easy as is installing the other cockpit and brakes.

Ben
Not sure why anyone would do this but I imagine it would take 30 minutes with a simple 1x with external cables or 2-4 hours if you are swapping internally routed hydraulic brifters
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Old 04-29-19, 02:48 PM
  #164  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
A serious question from a guy who has never done discs. How much work is it to "swap cockpits" on a bike, ie fully setup handlebars, stem and levers. How long would the swap take? I do this often. With quill stems, it takes 5 minutes and I can do it immediately before I rode with no worries at all. (It's fun. That quick change turns the bike into a completely different animal, from a classic road bike to a bike that shines going up all-day climbs and the following descents.)

On the bike I have been doing this on for the past 8 years, the calipers stay with the cockpit. Front stays hooked up. On the rear, I have to disconnect the cable to pull through the braze-ons. All very quick and easy as is installing the other cockpit and brakes.

Ben
I switched my internally routed aero handlebars on my two internally routed frames; just moved one to another. Had to swap out cables due to length differences. Took about 2.5 hours, and I've been building bikes for 15+ years. So not that quick these days.
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Old 04-29-19, 02:57 PM
  #165  
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Originally Posted by biketube guy View Post
There are only two really compelling reasons for discs on road bikes 1) long mountain descents 2) carbon rims.
Sure. But that's 2 compelling reasons more than there are to ride rim brakes. I mean, being ok with inferior performance is fine, but it's not a compelling reason to ride rim brakes.
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Old 04-29-19, 03:20 PM
  #166  
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I just bought my first disc brake bike; a (used) Yuba Mondo for school runs, grocery runs, and family rides. There was no question when researching cargo bikes that I wanted the stopping power of discs.

Up to now Iíve been towing the kids around in a Burley trailer hooked to the back of my CAAD10, with dual pivot tektros. Itís been safe, itís fine. But thereís nothing wrong with more safety.


I dont donít know if Iíll ever (voluntarily) replace the CAAD10 as my main road bike, though. So itís possible Iíll still be riding rim brakes for a long time to come. But Iím aware that the next road bike I buy will more than likely have discs. And itís possible my kids (theyíre 3 now, and are great on their Striders) may never own a rim brake bike.
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Old 04-29-19, 04:49 PM
  #167  
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Nope. I never had an issue even with loaded touring. Stopping in the rain is best done gently so why change something that works. If I was still racing I might be looking for an edge so I get it but it's not for me.
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Old 04-29-19, 04:54 PM
  #168  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
Why are some people totally opposed to hydraulic disc brakes on road bikes?

Weight? That is really the only issue that can't be denied, but is the weight difference a real problem?

It's called "backlash", in response to the obvious bias that all of the magazines and talking heads try to force on road riders.

What is so obvious about it is how low weight has always been the primary cost-driver, the variable that is so hard to fake at the lower price-points, and the variable that the press has always emphasized UNLESS there was/is a new "thing" (like the early, very-heavy STI levers, or the whole disc-brake "package-deal").
So suddenly, bikes that were still available in both rim- and disc-braked versions can/must not be compared in a heads-up way, i.e. the added 2 pounds (at equivalent price level) HAS to be "swept under the rug" and it's just "you gotta buy one of these new DISC-braked bikes"!

Face it, lots of us hesitant-to-buy riders are ALL FOR letting the best technology evolve itself into the market, we're just less enthusiastic about hearing/reading over and over how a new DISC-Braked road bike is automatically better than any other kind of road bike.

In truth though, we don't quite pay for our magazines and other reporting anymore, it's the advertisers who pay the lions share of the costs, so why do we expect to be told the un-varnished truth?
Maybe we should be HAPPY to be fed free hogwash, and then go out and buy new disc-braked bikes to support all of those advertisers.
It's only fair after all.
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Old 04-29-19, 05:20 PM
  #169  
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Originally Posted by Renato GF Naso View Post
Hi!! Yes, I wouldn't mind discs, but only with four-fingers cross-style brake-levers, to keep the weight at the back! (It's a matter of weight-distribution!!)
You're so right about this, I really can't believe that the industry has yet to offer some sort of auxiliary brake levers for the so-popular gravel bikes. The several-inch reduction of reach to the bars when descending steeper sections off road is just huge in terms of what you can and can't do safely.

They can either add a pivoted lever to the sides of the existing levers, or develop a simple check-valve equipped auxiliary master cylinder for each brake line, but they really should have had this sorted out a good couple of years ago imo.

I just got my first gravel wheelset, tubeless tires on wide rims woo-hoo! But I got a deal on the rim-braked version and used an older 'cross bike having auxiliary levers with canti-brakes that was ridiculously affordable on the used market (big thanks here to all of the "disc-is-always-better" marketing).
No regrets I can tell you, the aux levers are worth their weight in gold.


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Old 04-29-19, 05:22 PM
  #170  
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Ever go disc? I'm still on discs......and radio. I haven't made the jump to MP3 or streaming. A true Luddite.

That being said, I don't have any plans to jump to discs. I am satisfied with the current system. I have a ride in mid May each year with lots of descending, some of it hard and steep. No problems with the current system. I have no plans for carbon wheels or a new bike. I am happy with what I have now.
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Old 04-29-19, 05:42 PM
  #171  
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Originally Posted by dddd View Post
You're so right about this, I really can't believe that the industry has yet to offer some sort of auxiliary brake levers for the so-popular gravel bikes. The several-inch reduction of reach to the bars when descending steeper sections off road is just huge in terms of what you can and can't do safely.
I have never felt the need for auxiliary levers at all.
Control is not better on the tops. Anything you think is gained by the shorter reach is certainly lost with the narrow hand position.
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Old 04-29-19, 07:01 PM
  #172  
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
Ever go disc? I'm still on discs......and radio. I haven't made the jump to MP3 or streaming. A true Luddite.

That being said, I don't have any plans to jump to discs. I am satisfied with the current system. I have a ride in mid May each year with lots of descending, some of it hard and steep. No problems with the current system. I have no plans for carbon wheels or a new bike. I am happy with what I have now.
Aka, you don't know any better? Don't feel bad, that's the defense of most here in opposition to the application to disc brakes. On a bike the advantage takes time and still is not always easy to determine.

You see an obstacle and you apply the brakes. If you stop before you hit it, that's good enough. If you don't stop before you reach it, we can steer around or just lean to avoid hitting it. Those alternative dilute the importance of a shorter stopping distance.

With an automobile the advantage is a lot easier to see, and to measure. We just have trouble applying that safety margin to the bicycle -- except when its raining. Carbon rims notwithstanding, few could argue the advantages under those conditions.
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Old 04-29-19, 07:19 PM
  #173  
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After a wheel-failure-related crash that resulted in a fractured pelvis, I did a lot of research on wheels and braking systems.
In the end, I came to the conclusion that disc brakes were a better option than rim brakes, at least for me.
Here's why:
The brake pads on rim brakes sit about 1/16" or so away from the wheel rim. A simple failure like a broken spoke will result
in the wheel jamming in the calipers. If it happens in the front wheel, the rider is going to go over the handle bars. Injury is almost certain.
Rim brake wheels use fewer spokes than disc brake wheels. Sometimes as few as 16 spokes in the front wheel.
The fewer the spokes, the more out-of-true the wheel will go if a spoke breaks.
Rim brakes limit the tire-width choices. It may be difficult to go up one size in tire width, say from 23 mm to 25 mm.
Never mind two sizes, say from 23 mm to 28 mm.
Disc brake wheels, out of necessity of design, typically will have a minimum of 20 spokes in the front wheel and 24 spokes in the back wheel.
24 front and back is common, and sometimes 28. The spokes are cross-laced, never radial. Again, this is mandated by the braking forces
transferred through the spokes to the outside diameter of the tire.
As a result, more spokes mean less wheel out-of-true if a spoke breaks.
Also, disc brake bikes typically have generous clearance between the fork/frame and the wheels. If a spoke does break, there is less chance
that the wheel is going to jam against the frame.
The additional clearance between the wheel and the frame also allows more choices in tire width. On my Gravel bike I have used widths from 25 mm to 32 mm.
There is room for even 35 mm tires.
The performance of disc brakes is consistent in all weather conditions. And there is none of the black muck all over the wheel and frame
that is common on rim brake bikes after a ride in the rain.
I have four bikes (Mountain, Fat, Gravel, Road) and they all have disc brakes. The Gravel Bike uses mechanical disc brakes and the rest use hydraulic disc brakes.
The hydraulic brakes work best. But the mechanical brakes work well too.
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Old 04-29-19, 07:21 PM
  #174  
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Originally Posted by dddd View Post
You're so right about this, I really can't believe that the industry has yet to offer some sort of auxiliary brake levers for the so-popular gravel bikes. The several-inch reduction of reach to the bars when descending steeper sections off road is just huge in terms of what you can and can't do safely.

They can either add a pivoted lever to the sides of the existing levers, or develop a simple check-valve equipped auxiliary master cylinder for each brake line, but they really should have had this sorted out a good couple of years ago imo.

I just got my first gravel wheelset, tubeless tires on wide rims woo-hoo! But I got a deal on the rim-braked version and used an older 'cross bike having auxiliary levers with canti-brakes that was ridiculously affordable on the used market (big thanks here to all of the "disc-is-always-better" marketing).
No regrets I can tell you, the aux levers are worth their weight in gold.

Yes, I've seen the cross levers! Wow!! Beautiful bike!! Congrats!! The levers at the top of the handlebars sure help to keep the weight at the back, for more efficient braking; I've got two aluminum cylinders adapters for connecting them to my Atala (the other one, the Schrade, has cross-levers already!!) Is there a way to further improve the weight-distribution? (Even more toward the back? [I was thinking of a drop-post! Can that be mounted to a road-bike like mine, or their diameter fits only MTBs?]) Thanks!! CU
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Old 04-29-19, 07:49 PM
  #175  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Aka, you don't know any better? Don't feel bad, that's the defense of most here in opposition to the application to disc brakes. On a bike the advantage takes time and still is not always easy to determine.

You see an obstacle and you apply the brakes. If you stop before you hit it, that's good enough. If you don't stop before you reach it, we can steer around or just lean to avoid hitting it. Those alternative dilute the importance of a shorter stopping distance.

With an automobile the advantage is a lot easier to see, and to measure. We just have trouble applying that safety margin to the bicycle -- except when its raining. Carbon rims notwithstanding, few could argue the advantages under those conditions.
I'm also cheap. I don't see the need to shell out the coin for a new bike. Plus, if I grab the front lever and squeeze it hard, it will lock quickly and throw me over the handlebars. Not seeing how discs will improve on that. Now if ABS makes it's way onto bicycles, that could be a game changer.

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