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Assisting a down cyclist when first-responders are already on site?

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Assisting a down cyclist when first-responders are already on site?

Old 04-22-19, 01:32 PM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
If you are not a witness, then the police won't necessarily want to talk to you, unless you are a "professional" with respect to first responders in some way. Doctor? Accident Analyst? Professional Accident Chaser?

I'd probably give them space if I didn't actually know the person.

If I actually knew the person, I'd offer to help facilitate collecting belongings. I'm not sure if the police would wish to keep the bicycle as "evidence", and for insurance to inspect. But, there may be other personal belongings you could track for a friend.

Pick up pieces left on the road? Lights?

Also, are the police trained to recognize items such as Fly6 and Fly12 devices? Other cameras or evidence? Strava and data trackers (which could be both good and bad for the cyclist, but important for any legal proceedings).
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Old 04-22-19, 02:06 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by ev780 View Post
Huh? Advocate for what?

Looks like the people whom you pay for such services had things well in hand. Unless you have some information that they didn't or you knew the patient, mind your own business and stay out of their way.
This.
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Old 04-22-19, 07:10 PM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by Phil_gretz View Post
..."fork's bent" ...
perfect
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Old 04-23-19, 06:37 AM
  #79  
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visitor

If the police and ambulance are already there I'd leave it alone. The only thing I would check out is if the rider might be from out of town-like if they have panniers. My friend went down hundreds of miles from home and a good samaritan helped secure his belongs and bike for a couple of days. And helped him when he was getting back on the road.
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Old 04-23-19, 07:11 AM
  #80  
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It seems to me that this would be a case-by-case decision, and that any of us would be competent to make the call on the scene.
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Old 04-23-19, 10:08 AM
  #81  
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Regardless of EMTs or cops, obviously you should check to make sure that his Strava auto-paused properly.
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Old 04-23-19, 10:52 AM
  #82  
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this ^^^
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Old 04-23-19, 10:58 AM
  #83  
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@livedarklions wins the thread.
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Old 04-23-19, 11:05 AM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Regardless of EMTs or cops, obviously you should check to make sure that his Strava auto-paused properly.
LOL! THIS may be the one justification for interfering with the LEOs, First Responders, or other trained and authorized officials on the scene. After all, if it's not on Strava, it didn't happen!
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Old 05-03-19, 06:43 AM
  #85  
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At the risk of restarting this thread ... I want to add details/clarification about the story in the OP: The day of the wreck, I saw the recently retired fire chief (he lives on our block) was talking with an officer after the other emergency vehicles had left the scene. While walking the dogs, he and I were catching up and asked if he could share anything about the wreck. He let me know that there was a car involved and that the person on the bike claimed responsibility for the collision - the biker didn't slow for the stop sign. Circling back to the OP " ...bikes typically roll this intersection."

Last edited by Hypno Toad; 05-07-19 at 09:10 AM. Reason: typos
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Old 05-06-19, 09:50 PM
  #86  
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Let the experts do what they need to do. They do not need anyone’s assistance, and I’m pretty sure the rider doesn’t need an advocate at that particular time. If you just want to go over and say something encouraging, that’s nice of you, but the best best thing is simply to stay away and let the responders handle everything.
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Old 05-07-19, 03:22 PM
  #87  
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I would advocate, not abdicate. There are so many opportunities(multiple LE agencies) around here. Where a cyclist will get blamed for a driver's behavior.
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Old 05-07-19, 03:30 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by Chris0516 View Post
I would advocate, not abdicate. There are so many opportunities(multiple LE agencies) around here. Where a cyclist will get blamed for a driver's behavior.
God knows every situation is improved by having people who didn't see the incident, don't know the victim or the perpetrator, aren't attorneys, doctors, LEOs, EMTs, firemen, or even traffic engineers wade in to clarify and advocate.

If you really want to help, get to know your elected officials. Get to know some of your local LEOs. Write letters to the editor. Support organizations that advocate for cycling. Set an example by being a productive and law abiding member of the community. But let the cops and first responders do their job without a bunch of internet experts wading in to muddy the waters.

BB

BB
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Old 05-08-19, 01:54 AM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by bbbean View Post
God knows every situation is improved by having people who didn't see the incident, don't know the victim or the perpetrator, aren't attorneys, doctors, LEOs, EMTs, firemen, or even traffic engineers wade in to clarify and advocate.

If you really want to help, get to know your elected officials. Get to know some of your local LEOs. Write letters to the editor. Support organizations that advocate for cycling. Set an example by being a productive and law abiding member of the community. But let the cops and first responders do their job without a bunch of internet experts wading in to muddy the waters.

BB

BB
Elected officials are the easy part. But riding through multiple LE jurisdictions, at the same time. That is the problem. In my county. There is, the local barracks of the state police, six districts of the county police, and three city police departments.

So, That is a lot of police I would have to introduce myself to.

There is a major cycling association in the DC-Metro region.

I have done LTE before.
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Old 05-08-19, 05:59 AM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by Chris0516 View Post
Elected officials are the easy part. But riding through multiple LE jurisdictions, at the same time. That is the problem. In my county. There is, the local barracks of the state police, six districts of the county police, and three city police departments.

So, That is a lot of police I would have to introduce myself to.

There is a major cycling association in the DC-Metro region.

I have done LTE before.
If I am injured at the side of road and getting help from EMT, and you haven't witnessed the event, please keep your advocacy to yourself. At that moment, I have more immediate needs than you serving your version of the "cause".
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Old 05-08-19, 11:28 AM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by Chris0516 View Post
I would advocate, not abdicate. There are so many opportunities(multiple LE agencies) around here. Where a cyclist will get blamed for a driver's behavior.
So I am assuming you can provide us withthe specifics (case numbers, police reports, newspaper articles, whatever) showing the multiple times this has happened in these many jurisdictions, all which evidence would prove that all the cops hate all the cyclists and help all the drivers?

And also, please list the cases where you, having not seen the accident, and not knowing any of the facts, successfully intervened to help the cyclist obtain the "proper" outcome, especially since, since you didn't know what happened, you would have no idea what the "proper" legal outcome would have been, and since you have no medical training surpassing that of the EMTs, you would have know way of effecting a "proper" medical outcome.

That If i am not mistaken, were the general thrusts of @livedarklions' and @bbbeans' posts.
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Old 05-09-19, 01:12 AM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
If I am injured at the side of road and getting help from EMT, and you haven't witnessed the event, please keep your advocacy to yourself. At that moment, I have more immediate needs than you serving your version of the "cause".
Why do you think, I would stop an EMT from doing their job? But if an EMT is not on-scene, I would certainly stop to help.
Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
So I am assuming you can provide us withthe specifics (case numbers, police reports, newspaper articles, whatever) showing the multiple times this has happened in these many jurisdictions, all which evidence would prove that all the cops hate all the cyclists and help all the drivers?
It is overlapping police departments

In the DC-Metro region, along with the MPD(DC). There is the Maryland State Police, and the Virginia State Police. Then there are 16 county police departments/sheriffs office, in MD n' VA, within the Metro region. Within those counties in the DC-Metro region, there are 24 city police departments. That is forty-three police agency opportunities, with thousands of officers, to cite a cyclist in the region. For an accident that wasn't their fault. Regardless of what the traffic code says.
Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
And also, please list the cases where you, having not seen the accident, and not knowing any of the facts, successfully intervened to help the cyclist obtain the "proper" outcome, especially since, since you didn't know what happened, you would have no idea what the "proper" legal outcome would have been, and since you have no medical training surpassing that of the EMTs, you would have know way of effecting a "proper" medical outcome.
I have not encountered any, yet. I have no organized medical training beyond. What would amount to an EMT. But I have been through a lot medically in my life, enough to know what to look for in order to help someone beyond profuse bleeding.
​​​​
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Old 05-09-19, 02:27 AM
  #93  
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You're not clear on what you're advocating for. Did the injured party ask for your help? If you see an injustice you can speak up. If they're in immediate danger I would help.

Otherwise, I will and have rendered assistance when no one else is present. But my first duty is to call for help. Once the authorities arrive its their job to do the rest, and I move out of the way.
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Old 05-09-19, 05:14 AM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by Chris0516 View Post
Why do you think, I would stop an EMT from doing their job? But if an EMT is not on-scene, I would certainly stop to help.
​​​​
Reread the op you're reacting to. You said you'd "advocate not abdicate" at a scene where you hadn't witnessed the event, emt and police were on the scene, and the cyclist appeared to be being taken care of.

If that's not what you meant to say, that's on you. If it's what you meant to say, if I am the injured cyclist, I wouldn't want you "advocating" for me under those circumstances.

No one is saying leave the guy unattended if there's no emt or police on the scene. Why would you think anyone would say that?
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Old 05-09-19, 06:07 AM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by Chris0516 View Post
That is forty-three police agency opportunities, with thousands of officers, to cite a cyclist in the region. For an accident that wasn't their fault. Regardless of what the traffic code says. ​​​​
Why would they cite the cyclist if it wasn't the cyclist's fault? And why would you think they would? And how would you know who was at fault anyway, if you didn't see the accident?

Have you read the thread, including and especially the original post?
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Old 05-13-19, 10:54 PM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Reread the op you're reacting to. You said you'd "advocate not abdicate" at a scene where you hadn't witnessed the event, emt and police were on the scene, and the cyclist appeared to be being taken care of.

If that's not what you meant to say, that's on you. If it's what you meant to say, if I am the injured cyclist, I wouldn't want you "advocating" for me under those circumstances.

No one is saying leave the guy unattended if there's no emt or police on the scene. Why would you think anyone would say that?
If possible, I would try to find out. If there was an emergency contact I could call, for the cyclist. I would not try to interfere with what EMS/Police are doing.

Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Why would they cite the cyclist if it wasn't the cyclist's fault? And why would you think they would? And how would you know who was at fault anyway, if you didn't see the accident?
Have you read the thread, including and especially the original post?
Yes I have.
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Old 05-14-19, 03:05 AM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by Chris0516 View Post
If possible, I would try to find out. If there was an emergency contact I could call, for the cyclist. I would not try to interfere with what EMS/Police are doing.



Yes I have.
That's ridiculous. If the cyclist is in good enough shape to give you the number, he's going to be able to contact them himself. Now he's going to have to worry about the stranger trying to get phone numbers. Another person on the scene asking questions of an injured person is not going to be anything but "interfering" . Just butt the hell out, that's not helping anyone's needs but your own ego.
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Old 05-15-19, 12:59 AM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
That's ridiculous. If the cyclist is in good enough shape to give you the number, he's going to be able to contact them himself. Now he's going to have to worry about the stranger trying to get phone numbers. Another person on the scene asking questions of an injured person is not going to be anything but "interfering" . Just butt the hell out, that's not helping anyone's needs but your own ego.
Really cute, NOT.

When I had a bike accident in 2010, in DC near the National Cathedral, sure the DC Fire Department got to the scene. Oddly enough, the U.S. Secret Service got there first. They asked me the very questions you would not want ANYONE asking you. The U.S. Secret Service DID NOT interfere with the procedures of the DC Fire Department. They did them a favor.

But I guess you are just going to think, I am 'full of hot air'. That what I described above, never happened.
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Old 05-15-19, 01:14 AM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by Chris0516 View Post
They asked me the very questions you would not want ANYONE asking you..
What Questions would the secret service be asking that the fire Dept wouldn’t?
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Old 05-15-19, 02:43 AM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
What Questions would the secret service be asking that the fire Dept wouldn’t?
The Secret Service asked me who they should contact, and I immediately showed them my Road ID velcrove bracelets. Which is how they knew who to call.

Besides, They got there before the fire department. Since they were across the street, and saw the accident happen.
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