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Cyclists break far fewer road rules than motorists

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Cyclists break far fewer road rules than motorists

Old 05-10-19, 12:23 PM
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Cyclists break far fewer road rules than motorists

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlton...w-video-study/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlton...s-finds-study/
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Old 05-10-19, 01:56 PM
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There just aren't as many rules for us to break as there are for cars. Running a stop sign is probably the most common, but in some jurisdictions that's now legal. Rolling through a red light is another, and again, in some areas that's legal. I'd hazard to guess that rolling through a stop sign and speeding are by far the most common motorist offence, but also illegal lane changes and illegal turns. Ultimately, though, distracted driving may eclipse all of these, and pose the most danger to cyclists.
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Old 05-10-19, 02:53 PM
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A cyclist has a lot more 'skin' in the game, so is less likely to do anything to harm anyone. No doubt I break a few laws every time I ride, but I very carefully measure what I am doing and it is only when there are no cars/pedestrians around to harm or interrupt.
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Old 05-10-19, 04:13 PM
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Cyclists who drive are better behind the steering wheel than motorists

Need to add this to the original post so we understand better what the thread is about.


"Cyclists who drive are better behind the steering wheel than motorists, a new analysis has found."

"Nick Day of Chris Knott Insurance said an analysis of his firm's crash data showed that cyclists make less than half the number of insurance claims as non-cyclists."

Last edited by FiftySix; 05-10-19 at 04:16 PM. Reason: detail
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Old 05-12-19, 02:27 AM
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Try to convince speeding motorists that cyclist are more law abiding... good luck with that.
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Old 05-12-19, 06:04 AM
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Apples to oranges! Speeding is the most frequent violation for motorists - hard to accomplish for most cyclists. Riding on sidewalks is most frequent on bikes, yet few motorists do this. Why not pick common ground to compare?
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Old 05-13-19, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost View Post
Apples to oranges! Speeding is the most frequent violation for motorists - hard to accomplish for most cyclists. Riding on sidewalks is most frequent on bikes, yet few motorists do this. Why not pick common ground to compare?
The common ground is they're both vehicles on the road that are expected to follow rules. If you want to make a more specific comparison, what's a rule that would have the same impact on both types of vehicles? I think that would be a very short list.

In my experience, drivers routinely run red lights (right after they turn red), take unsignaled right turns across lanes, pass in no passing zones, ignore pedestrians in crosswalks, back out of driveways into traffic without looking, fail to yield before taking a left turn in front of traffic, and pull into traffic lanes from parking spaces without signalling. All of these have vastly greater impact on other people's safety than just about anything a bike can do.

Also, so what if speeding is really just a factor for cars? It's a rule violation with very real safety implications.
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Old 05-14-19, 07:13 AM
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This study is pointless for most of us, since it focuses on infrastructure with cycleways.

There are a bunch of people around here on bikes and every time I see one, they're doing something wrong; mostly they're running stop signs/lights or their head is not on a swivel -- they're suffering from a severe case of tunnel vision.

However, I'm not saying that motorist are the better operators of their vehicles, it's just that it's at a point where asking the question, "Who's the better operator?" is pointless.

I actually do break more road rules as a motorist, mostly by speeding, which I believe is the rule most commonly broken. Is there anyone here who is going to claim that they drive at the speedlimit all the time while driving in their steel cages? I'm not including on residential roadways -- I never speed there, but on the open roadways....

BTW, one thing I do on the roads in my truck is to take my foot off the gas when I see the light change to red and I know I'm pissing off a lot of other motorists, because they all have to change lanes (or tail-gate me) in order to pass me, only to get to stop at the red light a few seconds before me
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Old 05-14-19, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by work4bike View Post
This study is pointless for most of us, since it focuses on infrastructure with cycleways.

There are a bunch of people around here on bikes and every time I see one, they're doing something wrong; mostly they're running stop signs/lights or their head is not on a swivel -- they're suffering from a severe case of tunnel vision.
Agreed. Right off the bat, half are not even riding on the correct side of the street. And geez, some of the maneuvers I see people pull in order to avoid using the left turn lane, wow. Running lights and stop signs, riding on the sidewalk, darting clear across the road suddenly (for no apparent reason) all kinds of weird stuff. I hold random cyclists to a pretty low standard, if they're not actively angering motorists, I give 'em a pass.

However, I'm not saying that motorist are the better operators of their vehicles, it's just that it's at a point where asking the question, "Who's the better operator?" is pointless.

I actually do break more road rules as a motorist, mostly by speeding, which I believe is the rule most commonly broken. Is there anyone here who is going to claim that they drive at the speedlimit all the time while driving in their steel cages? I'm not including on residential roadways -- I never speed there, but on the open roadways....

BTW, one thing I do on the roads in my truck is to take my foot off the gas when I see the light change to red and I know I'm pissing off a lot of other motorists, because they all have to change lanes (or tail-gate me) in order to pass me, only to get to stop at the red light a few seconds before me
It's funny how the people who are the most antsy for a red light to change, creeping forward, revving the accelerator ... never seem to notice when the light actually does change to green. Weird.
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Old 05-16-19, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
The common ground is they're both vehicles on the road that are expected to follow rules. If you want to make a more specific comparison, what's a rule that would have the same impact on both types of vehicles? I think that would be a very short list.

In my experience, drivers routinely run red lights (right after they turn red), take unsignaled right turns across lanes, pass in no passing zones, ignore pedestrians in crosswalks, back out of driveways into traffic without looking, fail to yield before taking a left turn in front of traffic, and pull into traffic lanes from parking spaces without signalling. All of these have vastly greater impact on other people's safety than just about anything a bike can do.

Also, so what if speeding is really just a factor for cars? It's a rule violation with very real safety implications.
Yes, you've hit the nail on the head. The degree of risk due to the infraction is the critical factor. And in almost all cases, the degree of risk is much greater for the cyclist than the motorist, regardless of who's in the wrong. Simply measuring incidence of infractions for cyclists vs. motorists is just not a useful statistic.
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Old 05-16-19, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost View Post
Yes, you've hit the nail on the head. The degree of risk due to the infraction is the critical factor. And in almost all cases, the degree of risk is much greater for the cyclist than the motorist, regardless of who's in the wrong. Simply measuring incidence of infractions for cyclists vs. motorists is just not a useful statistic.
And when you get right down to it, how do you define what constitutes an "incident"? I suppose if one is driving 100 mph on a 55 mph road for a full hour, that counts as one infraction even though you're putting everyone you encounter at great risk during that time. On paper, that's going to look like half as many infractions as a bicycle rolling a couple stop signs at unpopulated intersections.
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Old 05-17-19, 12:39 AM
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How do you know we don't fib more?
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Old 05-17-19, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
How do you know we don't fib more?
Everything in this post is a lie.
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Old 05-19-19, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Everything in this post is a lie.
So it's really that Foo thread escaped from it's cage.
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Old 05-21-19, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost View Post
Simply measuring incidence of infractions for cyclists vs. motorists is just not a useful statistic.
Unless, your goal is to combat the image of cyclists as reckless scofflaws. I don't know about you, but I have frequently heard drivers justify risky driving around cyclists by saying that cyclists break traffic laws all of the time and, therefore, deserve what they get. The implication being that drivers are angels, of course.

Not that I buy into the narrative that cyclists are any "better" than drivers, or vice versa, in a moral or ethical sense - an azzhat is an azzhat, whether riding a bike or driving. It's simply that the risks posed to others by bad behavior on the part of a cyclist are insignificant (though non-zero) compared to those posed by bad behavior on the part of a motorist. Also, some/most cyclists are more aware while riding than many motorists, as a matter of self preservation, so when a cyclist breaks a traffic law it is generally considered and deliberate, rather than a matter of inattention or habit.
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Old 05-21-19, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by noimagination View Post
Unless, your goal is to combat the image of cyclists as reckless scofflaws. I don't know about you, but I have frequently heard drivers justify risky driving around cyclists by saying that cyclists break traffic laws all of the time and, therefore, deserve what they get. The implication being that drivers are angels, of course.

....
Actually, the implication is that they are public avengers out to teach offenders a lesson. How many times have I seen motorists avenging each other on the road because somebody cut in front of someone else, which in itself invites retalitory action?

A much earlier article states that motorists and cyclists alike violate traffic laws equally.

https://www.pri.org/stories/2015-07-...-similar-rates

But finally, from the Forbes article, remember to quote this as often as you can:

"A Transport for London study investigated the “hypothesis that the majority of cyclists ride through red lights” and discovered that 84% of cyclists stopped on reds. The study concluded that the “majority of cyclists obey red traffic lights” and that “violation is not endemic.”"

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Old 05-21-19, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
But finally, from the Forbes article, remember to quote this as often as you can:

"A Transport for London study investigated the “hypothesis that the majority of cyclists ride through red lights” and discovered that 84% of cyclists stopped on reds. The study concluded that the “majority of cyclists obey red traffic lights” and that “violation is not endemic.”"
"Riding through red lights" is just plain stupid. However, stopping at a red light, checking traffic, then riding through, well, that actually legal in some places.
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