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Clipless or not for touring?

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Clipless or not for touring?

Old 01-17-19, 04:09 PM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by bobwysiwyg View Post
Having retired from a profession where detail was king, I'd pedantically think they should be cleat pedals.
But thanks for explaining.
To add what others have already said. If you want to make sense of it without getting Freud involved....
The bike culture assumes there is always some type of foot retention device. There are clips which are toe clips or straps and later came a cleat style that did not use clips or straps. There is no third option of neither
Maybe the third option is simply just implied as clipless AND cleatless.

Last edited by u235; 01-17-19 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 01-17-19, 05:08 PM
  #102  
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Both have their advantages

I have toured recently with platform pedals and with SPD (hybrid pedals). I love the freedom of platforms and being able to wear whatever shoes you want to ride. "Normal" shoes are also better for the time off the bike. They are also better if you have to start and stop a lot (as in urban riding, if you want to ride from camp to dinner, etc.. But if the route is very challenging and/or you have an aggressive schedule, I would opt for clipping in and carrying a pair of Tevas for off the bike.

For platforms, the pedal should be very grippy, and it is better to have grippy shoes. I really like the Velo Orange Grand Cru Sabot pedals. For shorter local rides I have even ridden in Birkenstocks or Tevas.
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Old 01-17-19, 07:03 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by u235 View Post
To add what others have already said. If you want to make sense of it without getting Freud involved....
The bike culture assumes there is always some type of foot retention device. There are clips which are toe clips or straps and later came a cleat style that did not use clips or straps. There is no third option of neither
Maybe the third option is simply just implied as clipless AND cleatless.
Every "culture" has its jargon.
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Old 01-18-19, 10:01 AM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
The cleats on all SPD shoes are recessed. (...) If not recessed enough, the shoe sole is not contacting the pedal.
This simply isn't true (Unless you simply meant all the shoes you've tried yourself). On my mountain biking shoe, the metal cleat is clearly the lowest point, and makes contact with the floor. So when I walk around I sound like I'm wearing tap shoes.The cleats on my touring SPD shoes, OTOH, are tucked up in the sole enough that they do not touch the floor when I walk around, they make no sound.

Also, the contact area between the shoe and pedal varies from model to model. If you look at Crank Brother's Egg Beater pedals, there is nothing on them to contact the shoes beyond the retaining clips. Or the ubiquitous Shimano 520 style have about 0.5 square inch of contact which fits neatly within the recessed area around the cleat, not making contact with the walking surface.

Seems you could find a better shoe/pedal combination that the ones that you describe having trouble with.
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Old 01-18-19, 11:46 AM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by Brett A View Post
This simply isn't true (Unless you simply meant all the shoes you've tried yourself). On my mountain biking shoe, the metal cleat is clearly the lowest point, and makes contact with the floor. So when I walk around I sound like I'm wearing tap shoes.The cleats on my touring SPD shoes, OTOH, are tucked up in the sole enough that they do not touch the floor when I walk around, they make no sound.

Also, the contact area between the shoe and pedal varies from model to model. If you look at Crank Brother's Egg Beater pedals, there is nothing on them to contact the shoes beyond the retaining clips. Or the ubiquitous Shimano 520 style have about 0.5 square inch of contact which fits neatly within the recessed area around the cleat, not making contact with the walking surface.
....
I have never seen a shoe where the SPD cleats stick out from the sole the way that you describe. What kind of mountain bike shoe do you have? Are you sure it is not from the sole being worn down?

I was unaware that Crank Bros made a SPD pedal, when did they start?

Shimano makes at least two different pedals with a number 520.

When I walk on pavement, I can hear my cleats contacting the pavement because shoe soles flex under weight.
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Old 01-18-19, 03:40 PM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
I have never seen a shoe where the SPD cleats stick out from the sole the way that you describe. What kind of mountain bike shoe do you have? Are you sure it is not from the sole being worn down?

I was unaware that Crank Bros made a SPD pedal, when did they start?

Shimano makes at least two different pedals with a number 520.

When I walk on pavement, I can hear my cleats contacting the pavement because shoe soles flex under weight.

Crank Bros does not make an SPD. Their design is proprietary. The only pedal in their lineup that doesn't have shoe surface to pedal surface interface is the Eggbeater. I was thinking about your previous post on my ride today. I have some new MTB shoes and Crank Bros Candy pedals. I have only used them a half dozen times. It's finally getting easier to click in. The tread of the shoe needs to compress a good bit against the surface area of the pedal for positive engagement. I guess things are wearing in a bit now.
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Old 01-18-19, 04:37 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
Crank Bros does not make an SPD. Their design is proprietary. The only pedal in their lineup that doesn't have shoe surface to pedal surface interface is the Eggbeater. I was thinking about your previous post on my ride today. I have some new MTB shoes and Crank Bros Candy pedals. I have only used them a half dozen times. It's finally getting easier to click in. The tread of the shoe needs to compress a good bit against the surface area of the pedal for positive engagement. I guess things are wearing in a bit now.
Thanks. I am not sure why the other poster mentioned Crank Bros in a conversation about SPD cleats, I thought he was saying that they now make an SPD version.

Some of my pedals push harder against the shoe sole than other pedals. When I regularly use A530, M324 and Ritchey V4 Mountain pedals with various shoes including Pearl Izumi mountain, Keen Commuter 3, Keen Commuter 4, Keen Arroyo Pedal and Serfas mountain shoes, I have just about every possible combination of very sticky float to shoes that feel really loose in the pedal.
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Old 01-18-19, 10:32 PM
  #108  
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Toe half-clips as they hold my foot in a fixed place and there's no trouble getting my foot out/off. Since my tourer is 90's the aesthetic is a bonus.
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Old 01-19-19, 05:44 AM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
I have never seen a shoe where the SPD cleats stick out from the sole the way that you describe. What kind of mountain bike shoe do you have? Are you sure it is not from the sole being worn down?

I was unaware that Crank Bros made a SPD pedal, .
SPD = Shimano Pedaling Dynamics
maybe this was clarified already.
Egg beaters are Crank Bros. About the same size but different.
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Old 05-22-19, 08:34 AM
  #110  
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If you use flat pedals and shoes, does anyone use a strap across the top of the foot like the bike messengers use?
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Old 05-22-19, 12:27 PM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by jrickards View Post
If you use flat pedals and shoes, does anyone use a strap across the top of the foot like the bike messengers use?
Velcro straps are one of the more dangerous options, even more so than decent toe clips.

Nowadays many use clipless pedals. There is a short learning period where you may fall over a couple times because you've forgotten to unclip before stopping. I recommend Speedplay Frogs if they fit in your budget.

Alternatives I've tried include std toe clips, Powergrips and "half clips", which are basically the toe piece without the strap.

SPEEDPLAY : HIGH PERFORMANCE PEDALS

Power Grips

https://www.amazon.com/Power-Grips-S.../dp/B001FYGGLC

https://www.amazon.com/Zefal-Cristop.../dp/B002NGS9ZW
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Old 05-22-19, 01:53 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by seeker333 View Post
Velcro straps are one of the more dangerous options, even more so than decent toe clips.

Nowadays many use clipless pedals. There is a short learning period where you may fall over a couple times because you've forgotten to unclip before stopping. I recommend Speedplay Frogs if they fit in your budget.

Alternatives I've tried include std toe clips, Powergrips and "half clips", which are basically the toe piece without the strap.
I do use and have (name of brand escapes me at this time) MTB shoes with Crank Bros cleats to go with my Eggbeaters (been clipless for several years) but I got to thinking that I might be more comfortable with flat shoes and pedals.

I'm a bit surprised about your suggestion for Speedplay, I thought that they were meant for road bikes/shoes, oh, wait, I've just looked online, the Frogs are the MTB versions of the road ones I've seen more often, got it.
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Old 05-22-19, 02:07 PM
  #113  
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I've got shimano saint platform pedals on my touring / commuter bike. I'm planning to use keen arroyo or newport sandals for my warm weather tours. Anybody else use those? My feet get hot, and they are wide. I like the comfort and utility of a closed toe sandal. I'm the kind of guy who stops for a nature sight or a quick dip in the lake, for lunch etc. A stiff-soled sandal is a good thing, at least for me.
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Old 05-22-19, 02:52 PM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by jrickards View Post
I do use and have (name of brand escapes me at this time) MTB shoes with Crank Bros cleats to go with my Eggbeaters (been clipless for several years) but I got to thinking that I might be more comfortable with flat shoes and pedals.

I'm a bit surprised about your suggestion for Speedplay, I thought that they were meant for road bikes/shoes, oh, wait, I've just looked online, the Frogs are the MTB versions of the road ones I've seen more often, got it.
Yep, Frogs are MTB pedals but they're also great for all-around road use. The cleat has a low height so you can walk in your bike shoes more naturally than some road shoe/cleat combinations. Frogs let you walk without damaging a wood floor. Their most useful feature is the no-spring-recentering design that lets you twist your foot laterally on the pedal like it's on ice, or as Speedplay puts it "knee-friendly, non-centering free float."

I have some Eggbeaters too, I quit using them after I got Frogs. I've revisited street shoes + flat pedals a few times over the years, I immediately swap the pedals out (again) after trying them. For me, Frogs are simply the best.

Last edited by seeker333; 05-22-19 at 02:55 PM.
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Old 05-22-19, 03:25 PM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by Ged117 View Post
I've got shimano saint platform pedals on my touring / commuter bike. I'm planning to use keen arroyo or newport sandals for my warm weather tours. Anybody else use those? My feet get hot, and they are wide. I like the comfort and utility of a closed toe sandal. I'm the kind of guy who stops for a nature sight or a quick dip in the lake, for lunch etc. A stiff-soled sandal is a good thing, at least for me.
Are you aware of the Commuter 4 sandals? You can install cleats, or not, your call. Note the comment on the website about size, I followed their sizing advice and was happy that I did.
https://www.keenfootwear.com/p/M-COMMUTER-4.html

It has a very thick insole. The foot bed under that thick insole at the location of the cleat hardware has a very uneven surface. I suspect most people do not notice it but I do. I put a thin sheet of steel from a coffee can base over that uneven surface and taped it in place to make a smoother foot bed.

These were my first keen cycling sandals, but they are discontinued, no longer made.
https://www.rei.com/product/812176/k...ike-shoes-mens

I have heard that if you mount your cleats further back that it can fix hot foot problems. I have always mounted my cleats a bit further back and have never had a hot foot problem.
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Old 05-23-19, 07:09 AM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by seeker333 View Post
Yep, Frogs are MTB pedals but they're also great for all-around road use. The cleat has a low height so you can walk in your bike shoes more naturally than some road shoe/cleat combinations. Frogs let you walk without damaging a wood floor. Their most useful feature is the no-spring-recentering design that lets you twist your foot laterally on the pedal like it's on ice, or as Speedplay puts it "knee-friendly, non-centering free float."

I have some Eggbeaters too, I quit using them after I got Frogs. I've revisited street shoes + flat pedals a few times over the years, I immediately swap the pedals out (again) after trying them. For me, Frogs are simply the best.
My Eggbeaters are on their last year, I should consider Frogs as replacements.
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Old 05-23-19, 07:16 AM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
Are you aware of the Commuter 4 sandals? You can install cleats, or not, your call. Note the comment on the website about size, I followed their sizing advice and was happy that I did.
https://www.keenfootwear.com/p/M-COMMUTER-4.html

It has a very thick insole. The foot bed under that thick insole at the location of the cleat hardware has a very uneven surface. I suspect most people do not notice it but I do. I put a thin sheet of steel from a coffee can base over that uneven surface and taped it in place to make a smoother foot bed.

These were my first keen cycling sandals, but they are discontinued, no longer made.
https://www.rei.com/product/812176/k...ike-shoes-mens

I have heard that if you mount your cleats further back that it can fix hot foot problems. I have always mounted my cleats a bit further back and have never had a hot foot problem.

Thanks for the tips. The Keen Commuter sandals are no longer available in Canada, and they aren't available on US Amazon either. I wrote to Keen, and the fellow there told me that the Commuter sandal base is just about the same as the Newport or Newport H2, so I think I'm going with those. I don't need the SPD with my sticky pedals, so it should be a good solution. I thought of picking the new Arroyo 3 hiking sandal, but it is the same base as my Keen Targhee 3 boots, which are too narrow for cycling. Happy riding.
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Old 05-23-19, 07:30 AM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by Ged117 View Post
I've got shimano saint platform pedals on my touring / commuter bike. I'm planning to use keen arroyo or newport sandals for my warm weather tours. Anybody else use those? My feet get hot, and they are wide. I like the comfort and utility of a closed toe sandal. I'm the kind of guy who stops for a nature sight or a quick dip in the lake, for lunch etc. A stiff-soled sandal is a good thing, at least for me.
I too currently use saint pedals & keen sandals. But most of my earlier tours were on cleated-keens and SPD pedals. I think flat-pedals work just as well as clipless for touring. For me sandals are the only way-to-go for touring shoes though.
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Old 05-23-19, 10:26 AM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by Ged117 View Post
I've got shimano saint platform pedals on my touring / commuter bike. I'm planning to use keen arroyo or newport sandals for my warm weather tours. Anybody else use those? My feet get hot, and they are wide. I like the comfort and utility of a closed toe sandal. I'm the kind of guy who stops for a nature sight or a quick dip in the lake, for lunch etc. A stiff-soled sandal is a good thing, at least for me.
Saint here as well + Teva Toachi (usually) or some light trail runner in cold weather (Scarpa Gecko)
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Old 05-23-19, 12:29 PM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
The most comfortable pedals I've used by far are the Dmr Vaults.
- Big pedals for big feet (size 12)
- Slight concave (curves slight) design is very comfortable and I can feel generally if my foot is well positioned on the pedal.

I own a few other pairs of not-cheap flat pedals and I've stopped using them in favor of the dmr vaults. I'm more comfortable in these pedals and five ten shoes than I am walking around in my regular shoes, they make biking really really comfortable (for me at least).

https://www.dmrbikes.com/Catalogue/P...lt-2/Vault-NEW


I use Five Ten Freerider shoes in black
https://www.adidasoutdoor.com/five-t...men-bike-shoes




That's actually the same grip you get with Five Ten Shoes plus Flat Pedals...the grip is that good forward, down, and back (not up obviously).
I have the DMR V12 Magnesium pedals, though at the moment they need rebuild, there is a bit of play in one, so I need to get the rebuild kit for them. I swapped them out the other day and have the Welgos on it. I had them in the garage.

I use these pedals with a pair of Crocs. Not the basic ones, but the Swiftwater clog. They are topped with leather, look good, have a stiffer sole than most, are comfortable, and they dry quickly after a rain.
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Old 05-23-19, 12:42 PM
  #121  
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I got my well broken in Birkenstocks resoled with a denser rubber mid sole and a Vibram Outsole ..

At the Shoe Fix-Shop..

It stiffened up the sole more than the less dense original resole material ..
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Old 05-23-19, 06:24 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by jrickards View Post
If you use flat pedals and shoes, does anyone use a strap across the top of the foot like the bike messengers use?
I don't think that's accurate that bike messengers use straps nowadays.

They're the worst of everything...
- worse to get your foot out in an emergency than flats or clipless
- getting back in at a stop is pain because the strap rotates down to the ground and you have to flip it back up
- clipless doesn't even get you an efficiency or speed benefit in lab tests so straps are even less likely to

I wouldn't recommend straps to anyone I know, it's flats (with five ten shoes if you want top grip) or clipless. Both are good systems, straps have drawbacks without having advantages.
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Old 05-23-19, 08:43 PM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by phughes View Post
I have the DMR V12 Magnesium pedals, though at the moment they need rebuild, there is a bit of play in one, so I need to get the rebuild kit for them. I swapped them out the other day and have the Welgos on it. I had them in the garage.

I use these pedals with a pair of Crocs. Not the basic ones, but the Swiftwater clog. They are topped with leather, look good, have a stiffer sole than most, are comfortable, and they dry quickly after a rain.
Though I have the Shimano Saint pedals on my Voyageur, I've also got the DMR V12 magnesium pedals leftover from a hybrid I built up and then sold. The V12 pedals are destined for my Peugeot AO-8 sturmey archer IGH four-speed commuter project I'm starting in the fall for a nice, slow burn winter project. I agree that they are excellent. I think I prefer the V12 pedals over the Saints, but both have proven themselves. I'm doing a short trip this weekend, and I'll be using the saints with new Keen Newports. Sans socks at this point...
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Old 05-24-19, 07:25 AM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
I don't think that's accurate that bike messengers use straps nowadays.

They're the worst of everything...
- worse to get your foot out in an emergency than flats or clipless
- getting back in at a stop is pain because the strap rotates down to the ground and you have to flip it back up
- clipless doesn't even get you an efficiency or speed benefit in lab tests so straps are even less likely to

I wouldn't recommend straps to anyone I know, it's flats (with five ten shoes if you want top grip) or clipless. Both are good systems, straps have drawbacks without having advantages.
"They're the worst of everything..." LOL

I'm learning that these straps aren't as good as I had thought. I just thought that they'd be a way of wearing flat shoes but having some means of increasing pedal stroke efficiency.
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Old 05-24-19, 11:09 AM
  #125  
fantom1 
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Middle of the desert
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I use clipless mtb style because I feel way safer and more comfortable with them. Bumps, wet weather, etc. make it too easy to come off and lose the whole rig, especially when you're tired.

That's just me though.
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