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Hikers found 17 days later alive.

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Hikers found 17 days later alive.

Old 05-29-19, 10:35 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
Up here in the northeast, there are usually annual tales of hikers getting lost and/or being unprepared for sudden weather changes in the White Mountains (NH). Usually not a happy ending, as in: found dead by a search party, found dead by hikers in the Spring, or found dead by hunters the next Fall...
Something like 99% of rescued hikers (here) are hypothermic when found. Regardless of what they were originally being rescued for. Get lost, don't freeze to death; break your leg, don't freeze to death. That's why an insulated jacket is a much better safety device than a firearm.
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Old 05-29-19, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Get lost, don't freeze to death; break your leg, don't freeze to death. That's why an insulated jacket is a much better safety device than a firearm.
Well, a sleeping bag?

But, yes, I've been planning on adding an insulated jacket to my cycling travel kit. Not necessarily that good for cycling in, but it would be handy if I had to spend an unplanned night in the woods, or walk the bike for several miles.
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Old 05-29-19, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
Just sayin': Sounds like there may have been drugs involved...
Religion is the opium of the people.
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Old 05-29-19, 10:59 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Something like 99% of rescued hikers (here) are hypothermic when found. Regardless of what they were originally being rescued for. Get lost, don't freeze to death; break your leg, don't freeze to death. That's why an insulated jacket is a much better safety device than a firearm.
Jacket is not reliable in itself...rain, fall into river...jacket get wet...become useless.

To keep warm, learn to build a make-shift shelter using natural resources.
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Old 05-29-19, 11:09 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict View Post
Jacket is not reliable in itself...rain, fall into river...jacket get wet...become useless.

To keep warm, learn to build a make-shift shelter using natural resources.
And whatever you do, don't wear jeans. Am I right or am I right?
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Old 05-29-19, 11:10 AM
  #56  
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One thing. If she came out sunburnt, that means that she wasn't in dense forest or cloud cover all the time.

Using sunlight mornings and evenings (ignoring noon and night), she could have had several hours a day that she could have used the sun to navigate.

And, with some luck, she could have identified the north star too.

Heading west, she could have been out in an hour or two.

Heading East, it would have taken longer, but in a couple of days she could have crossed half the island, and would have gotten out as long as she could more or less keep a constant bearing.

Were there any farmhouses visible? Lights at night? "Glow" of a metro area? Road sounds? Ocean sounds?

Mountains or other prominent landscape that could be used to maintain one's bearing?

Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
I'm changing my mind on this. Turns out the broken leg thing was B.S. and I now suspect much of the rest is, too.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/28/us/ha...rit/index.html
"All I can say is that ... I have strong sense of internal guidance, whatever you want to call that -- a voice, Spirit, everybody has a different name for it.

"My heart was telling me walk down this path, go left. Great. Go right. It was so strong."
It sounds like her sense of direction was more twisted than her ankle.
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Old 05-29-19, 11:35 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict View Post
Jacket is not reliable in itself...rain, fall into river...jacket get wet...become useless.

To keep warm, learn to build a make-shift shelter using natural resources.
That's why you want synthetic insulation (and wool base layer), not down.

Edit to add: an emergency bivy sack is only a few ounces. One of those folded up mylar things, it's like a cross between a sleeping bag and tent.

Last edited by Seattle Forrest; 05-29-19 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 05-29-19, 11:38 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
Well, a sleeping bag?

But, yes, I've been planning on adding an insulated jacket to my cycling travel kit. Not necessarily that good for cycling in, but it would be handy if I had to spend an unplanned night in the woods, or walk the bike for several miles.
Sleeping bag is big and bulky.

My personal feeling, and this is shared by many experienced hikers, is if I have to spend an unplanned night out, I need to survive but I don't need to be comfortable. Carrying enough gear to be comfortable is prohibitively bulky.

But I wouldn't be inclined for the bike unless I knew I was going somewhere no one else will be. On a road, if I get in serious trouble, people will help me.
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Old 05-29-19, 12:08 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
But I wouldn't be inclined for the bike unless I knew I was going somewhere no one else will be. On a road, if I get in serious trouble, people will help me.
True, although I don't ask for "help" a lot. I'd feel pretty bad to knock on someone's door and ask to sleep for the night.

And, there are a couple of tours that take one off the beaten path.

One mini-tour, "century" ride a couple of years ago. I got a bit of a late start, and on about a 30 mile cutover from one valley to the next, I don't think I saw a single moving vehicle for miles. I did eventually pass one or two campsites, but if I had a critical failure near the pass, I might not have seen another soul for the rest of the night.

Doing spring riding up the McKenzie pass, one has to hop a gate (more or less accepted practice), but a few miles past the gate, and there is nobody, no hikers, nobody. Perhaps one might be lucky if someone from the Forest Service is up there, but....

Of course, the advantage of being on a road on a bike is that one is generally easier for a search party to find, unless one misses a corner and ends up a mile down below a switchback. Having covered 100+ miles, it can be a huge search area, frequently without cell coverage.
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Old 05-29-19, 01:10 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
And whatever you do, don't wear jeans. Am I right or am I right?
Never travel without rain pants is my motto.
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Old 05-29-19, 01:13 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Nachoman View Post
Never travel without rain pants is my motto.
Sorry. The jeans thing was a reference most likely gotten only by people who were familiar with a now-banned Touring forum troll who is back as a sock.
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Old 05-29-19, 01:38 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
And whatever you do, don't wear jeans. Am I right or am I right?
Actually, I like jeans.

Ok, so cotton likes to trap moisture, although it will eventually dry out, especially if you can get a fire started.

But, jeans are TOUGH, and give you some protection from whatever, from snakes to banging your legs on rocks and brush to stickers.

This incident occurred during a "day hike" in Hawaii.

What are the chances the woman was out wearing shorts and sandals?

And, she eventually lost whatever shoes she had, so shorts and barefoot.

Then, do they have briars, or the equivalent of blackberries in Hawaii? Whatever, it is easy to get squeamish about going through brush that one would otherwise just climb through if one had good protection.

I'm a fan of short sleeve shirts, but I also know it comes at a cost.
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Old 05-29-19, 01:46 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
Actually, I like jeans.
See post #61 above. One of his recurring themes was that you could die of hypothermia if your jeans were to get wet.
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Old 05-29-19, 01:46 PM
  #64  
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Oh, one other thing. I end up with a sparse first aid kit, just because I rarely use it, and something like a band-aid may make one feel good, but won't save a life.

But, I also know that if I need it, I'll sacrifice my clothing to make dressings. Perhaps not sterile, but I'll deal with infections later. And, cotton will make excellent dressings.
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Old 05-29-19, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
See post #61 above. One of his recurring themes was that you could die of hypothermia if your jeans were to get wet.
In the summer in Hawaii?

One of the early posts pointed out that if one is to get lost, Hawaii would be the spot.

Even for those of us who hike/camp in the summer, it rarely drops below say 50 degrees at night.

Not finding any shelter from the cold/wet/rain could be a problem, but even so, 50 degree weather is rarely fatal.

Spring/Mountains, whatever, can be an issue. But, it likely is a case that if you can keep your core warm, then the extremities don't really matter.

You can't get frostbite in 50 degree weather.

And, if you can get a fire going, then you're golden (plus you can give something for the searchers to hunt for).
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Old 05-29-19, 02:01 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
In the summer in Hawaii?
In the summer in Missouri, among other places. I will send you a PM when I get a sec.
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Old 05-29-19, 02:27 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
True, although I don't ask for "help" a lot. I'd feel pretty bad to knock on someone's door and ask to sleep for the night.
A couple days ago I had a ride ending issue I couldn't fix in the field. I walked the bike a few miles, when somebody walked down to the end of her driveway and told me cyclists don't usually walk their bikes down hills. I told her what was up and that I was walking back to my car. Her husband was getting their horse into a trailer, and she told me to come in and sit down until that's finished and they'll give me a lift into town.

But, yeah, hello from other people is only possible where there are other people.
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Old 05-29-19, 03:19 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
In the summer in Hawaii?

One of the early posts pointed out that if one is to get lost, Hawaii would be the spot.

Even for those of us who hike/camp in the summer, it rarely drops below say 50 degrees at night.

Not finding any shelter from the cold/wet/rain could be a problem, but even so, 50 degree weather is rarely fatal.

Spring/Mountains, whatever, can be an issue. But, it likely is a case that if you can keep your core warm, then the extremities don't really matter.

You can't get frostbite in 50 degree weather.

And, if you can get a fire going, then you're golden (plus you can give something for the searchers to hunt for).
Hawaii is a different scenario. She wasn't likely to die of hypothermia, and didnít.

Had this been the Pacific NW, or New England she would be dead in a few days this time of year. Lake Placid, NY next few days is low 40ís. The mountains probably 10 degrees colder. I think I read once that 55F is the tipping point where body heat alone cannot maintain core temperature.
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Old 05-29-19, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
Hawaii is a different scenario. She wasn't likely to die of hypothermia, and didn’t.

Had this been the Pacific NW, or New England she would be dead in a few days this time of year. Lake Placid, NY next few days is low 40’s. The mountains probably 10 degrees colder. I think I read once that 55F is the tipping point where body heat alone cannot maintain core temperature.
It would depend a bit on where one is at.

I presume the high passes still are frigid at night.

At least down here we have had 50 t0 75 degree weather. We've had a bit of rain over the last few weeks, which could be an issue, although sunny weather is on the way. I personally haven't felt close to the limit between uncomfortable and lethal.

I can't remember how cold it was for my night out with a T-shirt years ago. Uncomfortable, but not dangerous. Far safer to sleep under a pile of leaves than to attempt to descend the mountain off trail after dark. Hmmm... that was during thimbleberry season, so perhaps a month later, and DRY.

I've, of course, been rained on many times, wearing jeans and cotton.



River water can be a different issue. There was that one spring boating trip down the Rogue river. I tipped over. Missed my attempt to get back into the boat, and it was pretty extraordinary that I may not have had the strength left to save myself without assistance (which thankfully I wasn't alone). I was very weak, very quickly. Once back in the boat, I floated over to the side of the river, and found a rock to soak up some sun.

Then, of course, tipping over in the Metolius river... BRRRR that was a lightning fast getting back into my boat... hardly touched the water.
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Old 05-29-19, 07:38 PM
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If I remember correctly, the islands have like five or six distinct zones of fauna beginning obviously with the shore line. I'm not familiar with the area she was in, but it looks very close to what we call 'upcountry' or in the upper zones of forest. Up there the temps can drop into the 50s even during summer. Remember, Haleakala is like 10k feet high or so.
If she was in canopy, then she was still in the rainforest zone, mostly temperate but still possibly chilly at night depending on the elevation.
Again, I'm not familiar with the Makena area, but remember that the islands are basically made up of valleys and ravines; the old way of dividing the land was by way of valleys. If she fell down into one of these valleys or ravines, she might have gotten stuck. Look at the Na Pali coast line, accessible on by sea. Same thing only on land. Or she could have been going up and couldn't get back down (I had some younger cousins get helicoptered out of a valley once when they got stuck).
The canopy makes the ground look flat, but under it you got all sorts of variations in topography.
I would have done what someone else said: follow the water down.
I've been hiking in the forests here and under the canopy, you really don't have any idea where you are. It's mostly vertical and downhill but sometimes even that is misleading unless you know where you are.
I always used to think that it's impossible to get lost on an island. I mean you just keep walking and eventually you hit the ocean, right?
Not really.
BTW, they just found the body of another lost hiker on Maui. Apparently he fell from the trail. This happens every once in a while on O'ahu also.
I'd never go hiking alone.
If I die, gotta have somebody to tell the story!
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Old 05-29-19, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by jideta View Post
If I remember correctly, the islands have like five or six distinct zones of fauna beginning obviously with the shore line. I'm not familiar with the area she was in, but it looks very close to what we call 'upcountry' or in the upper zones of forest. Up there the temps can drop into the 50s even during summer. Remember, Haleakala is like 10k feet high or so.
If she was in canopy, then she was still in the rainforest zone, mostly temperate but still possibly chilly at night depending on the elevation.
Again, I'm not familiar with the Makena area, but remember that the islands are basically made up of valleys and ravines; the old way of dividing the land was by way of valleys. If she fell down into one of these valleys or ravines, she might have gotten stuck. Look at the Na Pali coast line, accessible on by sea. Same thing only on land. Or she could have been going up and couldn't get back down (I had some younger cousins get helicoptered out of a valley once when they got stuck).
The canopy makes the ground look flat, but under it you got all sorts of variations in topography.
I would have done what someone else said: follow the water down.
I've been hiking in the forests here and under the canopy, you really don't have any idea where you are. It's mostly vertical and downhill but sometimes even that is misleading unless you know where you are.
I always used to think that it's impossible to get lost on an island. I mean you just keep walking and eventually you hit the ocean, right?
Not really.
BTW, they just found the body of another lost hiker on Maui. Apparently he fell from the trail. This happens every once in a while on O'ahu also.
I'd never go hiking alone.
If I die, gotta have somebody to tell the story!
I posted a Strava link to the trail above (as far as I can tell from the description). Not mine.

https://www.strava.com/activities/1255486258/analysis

It looks like the trail climbs from about 2800 feet to 3800 feet in about 3 miles. So, pretty mid elevation, but some good climbing.

The topo map from Strava does seem to indicate some ravines going parallel to the trail, but overall, they don't look that deep, and one should be able extract oneself from the ravines by going parallel to the slope (assuming it isn't too steep).

Still, I think the article did indicate rough terrain for the rescuers too, and everyone may have hitched a ride by helo.

Strong foliage, or stable rock can often help a person climb.

OHHH... The serpentine nature of the trail is switchbacks due to all of the climbing That means if the ravines are steeper they could be a problem, even if rather shallow.



Sounds like the perfect location to film the next TV adventure series.
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Old 05-29-19, 08:43 PM
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Of course, there is also the pervasive threat of Rat Lungworm infestation:

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Old 05-29-19, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
Of course, there is also the pervasive threat of Rat Lungworm infestation:
Ick!!!!

I've been less and less concerned with Giardia as I get older, although I do like fast moving water from small streams.

But, it sounds like a water filter, and good cooking would be appropriate for Hawaii.

Oh... and watch out for the Bush Meat in parts of Africa.
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Old 05-30-19, 07:24 AM
  #74  
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Then there's this...........

"Missing Hawaii hiker found dead days after Amanda Eller found alive."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/missing-ha...as-found-alive

Personally, hiking alone into the wilderness is not a good move.
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Old 05-30-19, 08:27 AM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by jideta View Post
BTW, they just found the body of another lost hiker on Maui. Apparently he fell from the trail. This happens every once in a while on O'ahu also.
I'd never go hiking alone.
The dad of the deceases said he has mental issue.

Last edited by mtb_addict; 05-30-19 at 12:42 PM.
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