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Power output

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Power output

Old 05-30-19, 10:40 AM
  #26  
Seattle Forrest
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Your 910 will work, especially with a quick release kit to go on the bars.

You may find you want something with a larger screen, but use your FR for now. But something else when the time is right.

I've been using a Fenix watch as a head unit for years. Not great for intervals, but ok for everything else.
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Old 05-30-19, 10:41 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by deacon mark View Post
Ok if I go with a 4iiii that seems the easiest because I just swap a crank arm, If I like it I can upgrade otherwise I am not out a lot cash at $300. My question which may be stupid but what to I use for the head unit. I have a Garmin 910xt. This is the triathlon watch that you can take off the band and put on bike. Would that work of do I need something else?
My old 310xt would pair with ANT+ power devices, so I would imagine that your 910xt will as well.
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Old 05-30-19, 10:47 AM
  #28  
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Wow this is a helpful thread so now do any of you use the crank based 4iiii. My thinking is I am a shimano person and have 6800 groupset which is prefect in shifting but I am a bike mechanic so I know what to do. I was juct thinking the whole 6800 crankset for a double sided output is $999 that is more than double. Power meter City has the 6800 left crank for $300. Some one give me a thought on what they use or if I am going up the tree correct?
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Old 05-30-19, 10:55 AM
  #29  
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I recently got a used Dura Ace 2nd generation Stages meter for $150 off Ebay. Looked almost new. Works.

It wasn't 172.5, but even so, a used crank could be had for $75 if you found a good deal on a used meter.

People blow that much on one set of bib and jersey.
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Old 05-30-19, 11:01 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by deacon mark View Post
Wow this is a helpful thread so now do any of you use the crank based 4iiii. My thinking is I am a shimano person and have 6800 groupset which is prefect in shifting but I am a bike mechanic so I know what to do. I was juct thinking the whole 6800 crankset for a double sided output is $999 that is more than double. Power meter City has the 6800 left crank for $300. Some one give me a thought on what they use or if I am going up the tree correct?
I felt like a single sided PM was too much to spend to still not know my power. I don't stray too far from 50/50, but it varies from moment to moment. If I'm doing 45/55, a left only meter will be off by 10% at that moment.
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Old 05-30-19, 11:04 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
They make them in different flavors (FSA, SRAM, etc, mine is a Rotor) but, that I'm aware of, removing any of the Power2Max cranksets is no different than most modern cranksets - take off the NDS arm and slide it out.

Ok. I was thinking like if it needed a special torque to be accurate like some pedals (Pioneer?) or for accurate readings after chainring replacement (C1), or crankarm removal like some single sided, or some other complication concerning repeatative assembly/disassembly cycles or something

I imagine if I call & tell them a complete system, rings, meter, bottom bracket for a standard 68mm BSA they'll know what to send. I priced it out and came up with $948 all together. So...only $600 more than the C1 rings.

I think I'll at least look at single side crank arms, Ebay/craigslist, etc...that's more my budget as a gift for a bike that isn't even mine.
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Old 05-30-19, 11:17 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by base2 View Post
Ok. I was thinking like if it needed a special torque to be accurate like some pedals (Pioneer?) or for accurate readings after chainring replacement (C1), or crankarm removal like some single sided, or some other complication concerning repeatative assembly/disassembly cycles or something

I imagine if I call & tell them a complete system, rings, meter, bottom bracket for a standard 68mm BSA they'll know what to send. I priced it out and came up with $948 all together. So...only $600 more than the C1 rings.

I think I'll at least look at single side crank arms, Ebay/craigslist, etc...that's more my budget as a gift for a bike that isn't even mine.
No, no complicated set-up.

How are you coming up with that pricing? NGeco are $490 if you already have a compatible crank (which isn't terribly common, given the popularity of one-piece spindle/spider/DS crankarm); if you don't have one, then you add one, but they often have FSAs for free or my Rotor which was $150, IIRC - definitely some low-cost options.

Not sure why you're adding the rings and bb to the equation, either - if your existing rings/bb are in good shape, use them. If they're not in good shape, then it's a cost that you're going to incur either way and shouldn't be included.
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Old 05-30-19, 11:20 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
No, no complicated set-up.

How are you coming up with that pricing? NGeco are $490 if you already have a compatible crank (which isn't terribly common, given the popularity of one-piece spindle/spider/DS crankarm); if you don't have one, then you add one, but they often have FSAs for free or my Rotor which was $150, IIRC - definitely some low-cost options.

Not sure why you're adding the rings and bb to the equation, either - if your existing rings/bb are in good shape, use them. If they're not in good shape, then it's a cost that you're going to incur either way and shouldn't be included.
Hers is a new Rodriguez being manufactured as we write. So all new from square zero.
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Old 05-30-19, 11:21 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by deacon mark View Post
Wow this is a helpful thread so now do any of you use the crank based 4iiii. My thinking is I am a shimano person and have 6800 groupset which is prefect in shifting but I am a bike mechanic so I know what to do. I was juct thinking the whole 6800 crankset for a double sided output is $999 that is more than double. Power meter City has the 6800 left crank for $300. Some one give me a thought on what they use or if I am going up the tree correct?
I run the 4iiii left only PM on two bikes, one DA 9000, and one Ultegra 6800. I was one of the original guinea pigs, errrrr, beta testers on the gen 1 Precision, so I've used it for about 4 years. The left-only PM is fine for my standards. Totally repeatable and accurate to previous efforts. It may not be accurate in an absolute sense, since it's only doubling left-leg power, but it gives very reliable results if comparing to previous efforts. Unless you are really serious about getting into training/racing, or just need to have the best, most accurate data, a left-only model should be more than sufficient.
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Old 05-30-19, 11:26 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by base2 View Post
Hers is a new Rodriguez being manufactured as we write. So all new from square zero.
So you're not going to need a BB and a complete crankset if you go with a Stages or C1 rings? Again, you're not comparing apples-to-apples.
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Old 05-30-19, 12:03 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
So you're not going to need a BB and a complete crankset if you go with a Stages or C1 rings? Again, you're not comparing apples-to-apples.
Square taper bb and crank arms & rings were already in price of the complete bike. Hollow crankset & external bb is different.

The cool thing about the C1 when I bought my bike was just a ring swap with no change orders.

I'll call and ask them what they can do, what their experience is & the cost difference to change is. Thanks for the help.

Aaron
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Old 05-30-19, 12:55 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by deacon mark View Post
So what is power meter to get? In my research I donít want pedals because they obsolete my Shimano s i like with cleats. I was thinking the 4iiii for left crank only. I think it could be reasonable accurate compared to many other options.
Stages, Pioneer, Power Tap, Shimano, Quark, SRM, et al. There are a wide variety of power meters that are crank or hub based, and it's pretty easy to come up with a decent power meter under $500, possibly under $400.
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Old 05-30-19, 01:25 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Sojodave View Post
I bought Powertap P1 pedals and when you own a power meter, you will find that power is measured differently. There is 3 second power, average power, nominal power, etc. Average power usually isn't a good stat to go by because if you free wheel at all, it is included into that number. I've gone 17.8 and barely doing 130 watts and I've also gone 17.8 doing 260 watts depending upon the wind or if you're drafting.
I don't think that measuring (or not) power when free wheeling is a function of average power vs something else (like normalized power). When you set up your power reading device (Garmin/etc) you tell it whether or not zero power readings are included. And you tell it whether or not readings when you are not moving are included (at least in the case of all the Garmin's that I have encountered). And they are included in average power (or not), normalized power (or not), etc.

FWIW, I include zero power times (like free wheeling downhill) but do not include power measurements when I am stopped (although that isn't much on the routes that I ride). And I find average power a useful indicator.

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Old 05-30-19, 05:51 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Sojodave View Post
Average power usually isn't a good stat to go by because if you free wheel at all, it is included into that number. .


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Old 05-30-19, 09:31 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
Can't buy them anymore as of last week (though you can buy them for 700 from various places). SRAM took over. I emailed the guy, pissed I missed the switch over. Said they're only providing warranty; no more new units.
Dang it! I have a P1 and wish I would have known this I would have gotten another and squirreled it away. Its a great PM!

I am bummed.

Didnít mean to thread jack but this got my bp up! I hope they bring a version back
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Old 05-30-19, 11:09 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by sdmc530 View Post
Dang it! I have a P1 and wish I would have known this I would have gotten another and squirreled it away. Its a great PM!

I am bummed.

Didnít mean to thread jack but this got my bp up! I hope they bring a version back
No one seems to be selling P1s new anymore, but you can still buy the P2. Not that there seems to be a good reason to, at least DC Rainmaker thinks there's no point buying the P2 over Favero Assiomas that are substantially cheaper.
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Old 05-31-19, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by surak View Post
No one seems to be selling P1s new anymore, but you can still buy the P2. Not that there seems to be a good reason to, at least DC Rainmaker thinks there's no point buying the P2 over Favero Assiomas that are substantially cheaper.
Pedal based would be fine if anyone used shimano cleats. Not going to switch out for all my bikes. I will ride out my C1 as long as i can then see whatís available for under $500. Just wish I would have purchased another when i had the chance
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Old 05-31-19, 07:53 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Sojodave View Post
I bought Powertap P1 pedals and when you own a power meter, you will find that power is measured differently. There is 3 second power, average power, nominal power, etc. Average power usually isn't a good stat to go by because if you free wheel at all, it is included into that number. I've gone 17.8 and barely doing 130 watts and I've also gone 17.8 doing 260 watts depending upon the wind or if you're drafting.
I find average power quite useful when training.
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Old 05-31-19, 08:04 AM
  #44  
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My point about average power not being a good stat to go by was based on if your doing hills or intervals. As an example, your power may be low getting out to the hill or where you do intervals, and it may be low coming back. That doesn't mean you didn't put in a good effort if your overall power average isn't high.
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Old 05-31-19, 09:23 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Sojodave View Post
My point about average power not being a good stat to go by was based on if your doing hills or intervals. As an example, your power may be low getting out to the hill or where you do intervals, and it may be low coming back. That doesn't mean you didn't put in a good effort if your overall power average isn't high.
Intervals are why there's a lap button.
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Old 05-31-19, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Sojodave View Post
My point about average power not being a good stat to go by was based on if your doing hills or intervals. As an example, your power may be low getting out to the hill or where you do intervals, and it may be low coming back. That doesn't mean you didn't put in a good effort if your overall power average isn't high.
I don't think people disagree as much as it seems.

For many riders/rides, average power over the whole ride isn't terribly meaningful. You don't want the warm up and cool down included in your intervals. I do a 20 MMP regularly, it sucks, I have to ride a while to get to a series of roads I can thrown down on. What I average for those 20 minutes matters, but not what I did limping home.
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Old 05-31-19, 10:07 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
Intervals are why there's a lap button.
The lap button is so useful. I don't think cyclists use it as much as we could. It's for anything you want stats for, doesn't have to be actual laps. When I do mixed surface rides, the lap button is how I know how many miles of gravel and how many of pavement I covered.

Lap button
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Old 05-31-19, 10:38 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
I felt like a single sided PM was too much to spend to still not know my power. I don't stray too far from 50/50, but it varies from moment to moment. If I'm doing 45/55, a left only meter will be off by 10% at that moment.
I think that depends on how seriously you're measuring power. I have two "double sided" meters (PT hub and quarq crank) and two 4iiii single sided and budget wise, it was better *for me* to get two power meters for two bikes than only get one for one of the two. If that makes sense. 2 sided is better but if you're just a casual rider / trainer it's not a deal breaker IMO.

Originally Posted by deacon mark View Post
Wow this is a helpful thread so now do any of you use the crank based 4iiii. My thinking is I am a shimano person and have 6800 groupset which is prefect in shifting but I am a bike mechanic so I know what to do. I was juct thinking the whole 6800 crankset for a double sided output is $999 that is more than double. Power meter City has the 6800 left crank for $300. Some one give me a thought on what they use or if I am going up the tree correct?
I got a 4iiii 6800 for one of my outside bikes and a 4iiii 5800 for my inside bike for less than most double sided meters. That worked out well for me.

Originally Posted by DrIsotope View Post
I'm not a racer by any stretch, but have power meters on both of my bikes. Primarily to use as "fuel gauges," because I'm an idiot. I absolutely cannot ride by RPE, and the same goes for food/water intake based on time or miles. Watching the rate of work done tells me when to put fuel back in. You'd think after a few years I'd get a handle on it, but you would be mistaken. If anything, I've gotten worse.
You should get one o' them fancy new garmins... the x30 series has reminders to eat and drink based on your power output.
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Old 05-31-19, 10:46 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by TrojanHorse View Post
You should get one o' them fancy new garmins... the x30 series has reminders to eat and drink based on your power output.
I'll never buy a Garmin anything ever again. My current Garmin product usage has been reduced to the HRM, and when that inevitably fails, my life will be blissfully and forever Garmin-free.

The last worthwhile computer Garmin produced was the Edge 500.
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Old 05-31-19, 10:51 AM
  #50  
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I'll never buy a watch that's not a Garmin again.

Garmin watches are the best bike computers available, and also fantastic for running, hiking, skiing, and lifting.
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