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Fewer Riders Announce?

Old 06-04-19, 11:08 PM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by gringomojado View Post
My favorite MUP is an asphalt winding trail with yellow center line. My wife and grand kids walk with me when I can't ride. We always stay on "our side" of the trail (USA) but I notice fewer riders announcing or using a bell. Some are "road riders" going quite fast. Is this discourtesy becoming common in most areas? It is almost as bad as the auto drivers.
gm
every year same topics , when to car drivers announce they are passing exactly , when you do call out people panic and end up right in your way , happens to me a bunch of times i just stay quiet now !!!
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Old 06-05-19, 04:03 AM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by DropBarFan View Post
I use Crane bike bells & ring with enough time for folks to hear & comprehend. On the local MUP a lot of bikers announce pass 1/2 second before doing so which is irritating. IMO a good bike bell is more polite than yelling.

I actually have the opposite opinion, and obviously we won't be able to "prove" which is correct: I find the impersonal, inarticulate bell sound obnoxious, and respond to it instinctively like I'm being honked at-i.e, with annoyance. I think I am able to convey more information and do so politely with my voice, plus I can add polite terms such as please, thank you,, and good morning. On the occasions when they misunderstand and start scrambling over to the right further than they need to, I often follow up with a "I have plenty of room" so they relax. You're right that timing is important, but that's true with bells as well.


I know you probably don't believe this, but I get thanked for announcing by at least one person almost every time I use a MUP.

Like I said above, I have seen plenty of times where people who use bells have to actually yell to get people to move, I have never seen someone who told people what they're doing have to resort to a bell. And nothing works against noise-cancelling headphones, so don't even go there!
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Old 06-05-19, 06:35 AM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
And their most important sense - that can detect sounds in 360° - is jammed up with ear buds blaring some Satanic symphony.
My wife can't hear me in my own house because both her ears are filled with tiny speakers blaring Christian music.

Oh the humanity.
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Old 06-05-19, 06:57 AM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by DropBarFan View Post
I use Crane bike bells & ring with enough time for folks to hear & comprehend. On the local MUP a lot of bikers announce pass 1/2 second before doing so which is irritating. IMO a good bike bell is more polite than yelling.
My bells are from the 1970's and the ring is pleasant and not obtrusive at all as some bells/horns can be. Ring and announce with a pleasant, "passing on your left or right" is generally acknowledged with a move over and a wave and/or smile.

Originally Posted by Teamprovicycle View Post
every year same topics , when to car drivers announce they are passing exactly , when you do call out people panic and end up right in your way , happens to me a bunch of times i just stay quiet now !!!
Comparison with cars = not the same. Maybe 1 out of 10 people walking JUMP and exhibit fright as I ring and announce.

Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I actually have the opposite opinion, and obviously we won't be able to "prove" which is correct: I find the impersonal, inarticulate bell sound obnoxious, and respond to it instinctively like I'm being honked at-i.e, with annoyance. I think I am able to convey more information and do so politely with my voice, plus I can add polite terms such as please, thank you,, and good morning. On the occasions when they misunderstand and start scrambling over to the right further than they need to, I often follow up with a "I have plenty of room" so they relax. You're right that timing is important, but that's true with bells as well.


I know you probably don't believe this, but I get thanked for announcing by at least one person almost every time I use a MUP.

Like I said above, I have seen plenty of times where people who use bells have to actually yell to get people to move, I have never seen someone who told people what they're doing have to resort to a bell. And nothing works against noise-cancelling headphones, so don't even go there!
For myself I feel ringing AND announcing my intentions to be simple common courtesy that I would expect in return. NO OBNOXIOUSLY LOUD horn or bell or voice demanding their moving out of my way.


I still believe the audible --- "ON YOUR LEFT or PASSING" ---- do not accurately convey clearly enough information of the action to be taken.

On a local trail I ring my bell as I approach every blind turn since the path is used by many dog walkers. Most often the owner heels the dog and thanks me for the ringing. People walking generally wave and smile as they move over.

Last edited by OldTryGuy; 06-05-19 at 07:01 AM.
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Old 06-05-19, 07:03 AM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by OldTryGuy View Post

I still believe the audible --- "ON YOUR LEFT or PASSING" ---- do not accurately convey clearly enough information of the action to be taken.
Around here that is true in many cases simply due to the amount of people that don't use English as their first language (Spanish, Hindi, and Vietnamese). Those people do react to the human voice, though. Kinda like a bell.
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Old 06-05-19, 07:27 AM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by OldTryGuy View Post
I still believe the audible --- "ON YOUR LEFT or PASSING" ---- do not accurately convey clearly enough information of the action to be taken.

On a local trail I ring my bell as I approach every blind turn since the path is used by many dog walkers. Most often the owner heels the dog and thanks me for the ringing. People walking generally wave and smile as they move over.
I use "passing on your left" said in as pleasant a voice I can muster audibly. The only time I've seen it cause confusion is when someone doesn't understand English.

I'm glad the bell works for you. I'm just sick of illogical arguments that it's somehow superior to announcing, and my point that I find bells a bit more annoying is only to note that that is a very subjective thing.

I do think it is objectively true that words can convey more information than bell sounds, so I always find the "people get confused when I announce" arguments for why everyone should use bells rather disingenuous. I also realize that not everyone is capable of clearly and audibly stating their intentions without sounding like they're screaming unpleasantly, so I really don't question people about why they prefer a bell. You can always buy a different bell, you are generally stuck with the voice you have.
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Old 06-05-19, 07:35 AM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by FiftySix View Post
Around here that is true in many cases simply due to the amount of people that don't use English as their first language (Spanish, Hindi, and Vietnamese). Those people do react to the human voice, though. Kinda like a bell.
I do agree, though, that the phrase "on your left" is inadequate--it lacks a subject, which makes it unclear whether it's an instruction or location information. "Passing on your left" doesn't actually state the object, but since only one of the parties is passing, it is clear by implication. When there's kids involved, I'll slow way down and actually say "I am going to pass on your left", usually that works really well with an assist from the parent.
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Old 06-05-19, 07:37 AM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I use "passing on your left" said in as pleasant a voice I can muster audibly. The only time I've seen it cause confusion is when someone doesn't understand English.

I'm glad the bell works for you. I'm just sick of illogical arguments that it's somehow superior to announcing, and my point that I find bells a bit more annoying is only to note that that is a very subjective thing.
....................
--- and as to the bell dislike ...... guess you haven't heard my Mickey Mouse Bell
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Old 06-05-19, 07:47 AM
  #84  
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Fewer Riders Announce?
Originally Posted by rseeker View Post
If I'm approaching people on foot I go with "behind you" because it's a simple message and they're just gonna do whatever they do anyway. I slow down and go whichever way they don't, which is usually me going left but not always.

If I'm approaching someone on a bike (very very rare up here in the sticks) I'll go with "on your left", on the assumption that they know what that means and because the V-sub-C is low enough that they'll have time to process and react in some sane way…
Originally Posted by OldTryGuy View Post
…For myself I feel ringing AND announcing my intentions to be simple common courtesy that I would expect in return. NO OBNOXIOUSLY LOUD horn or bell or voice demanding their moving out of my way.

I still believe the audible --- "ON YOUR LEFT or PASSING" ---- do not accurately convey clearly enough information of the action to be taken…
Originally Posted by FiftySix View Post
Around here that is true in many cases simply due to the amount of people that don't use English as their first language (Spanish, Hindi, and Vietnamese).

Those people do react to the human voice, though. Kinda like a bell.
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I use "passing on your left" said in as pleasant a voice I can muster audibly. The only time I've seen it cause confusion is when someone doesn't understand English.

I'm glad the bell works for you. I'm just sick of illogical arguments that it's somehow superior to announcing, and my point that I find bells a bit more annoying is only to note that that is a very subjective thing...

I do think it is objectively true that words can convey more information than bell sounds, so I always find the "people get confused when I announce" arguments for why everyone should use bells rather disingenuous.

I also realize that not everyone is capable of clearly and audibly stating their intentions without sounding like they're screaming unpleasantly, so I really don't question people about why they prefer a bell. You can always buy a different bell, you are generally stuck with the voice you have.
I previously posted to a now-closed thread, “On Your Left”:
Originally Posted by @badger1
By the way, all the Cat 6 racers round here love that little phrase. Other current favourites: "Coming through" and "Hold your line."
Originally Posted by @Machka
Oh no ... not this.

These threads have started to be as prevalent as the other signs of spring ...the waving and shaving threads!
Originally Posted by @Chuck Naill
I am wondering if I should continue to post here. It seems that instead of staying on topic most what to complain the thread dared to be created.
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
I think Machka was referring to those numerous threads about MUPS, and the up coming cyclist yelling “On your left” as they approached slower pedestrians, cyclists, etc, often with earphones on. I myself initially thought the same, just from the title of this thread.

When I’m passing anyone in any situation, including a fellow cyclist on the road, I don’t yell ”On your left”; at most I will say “Coming up” when nearby, but most importantly will pass with a wide berth. Yelling a warning might be annoying; a startling yell is inappropriate; but close passing is definitely uncalled for.

I like “coming up”…non-committal (as opposed to “on your left”) but not so antagonistic as “coming through

Last edited by Jim from Boston; 06-05-19 at 08:01 AM.
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Old 06-05-19, 07:54 AM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by OldTryGuy View Post
--- and as to the bell dislike ...... guess you haven't heard my Mickey Mouse Bell
Can we post sound files?
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Old 06-05-19, 08:01 AM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by Spinay70 View Post
I have noticed that when i am out riding and get passed by a 'serious' rider, they rarely announce. I have also seen them buzz past unsuspecting walkers without a word.

This past weekend i spied a 'serious' rider approaching fast in my rear view and they ended up zipping by without any word...and quite close as well.

Spinay70
I just headed out to our local-ish MUP for the first time this year a couple days ago. I love riding it, because it's a welcome break from my hilly and traffic-filled neighborhood, but the number of "serious riders" buzzing us on road bikes without announcing is irritating as heck. It takes so little effort to announce, or to ring a bell - just have a touch of courtesy. I tend to be about mid-paced for the trail - I pass a lot of slower riders, and I get passed a lot. I always announce, and usually get thanked for it. Ride fast, ride your ride, but be courteous. My favorite was on a ride last year when not only did he buzz me with about a foot to spare, and no announcement, he spat to the side after he got in front of me and it blew into my face.
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Old 06-05-19, 08:04 AM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Can we post sound files?
I think Pee Wee Herman rang a bell in the movie that had the same sound.
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Old 06-05-19, 09:31 AM
  #88  
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i ring my knog oi twice because once it sounds like an iPhone text message and usually say "coming up behind you!"
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Old 06-05-19, 09:38 AM
  #89  
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To Announce or Sneak

Originally Posted by gringomojado View Post
My favorite MUP is an asphalt winding trail with yellow center line. My wife and grand kids walk with me when I can't ride. We always stay on "our side" of the trail (USA) but I notice fewer riders announcing or using a bell. Some are "road riders" going quite fast. Is this discourtesy becoming common in most areas? It is almost as bad as the auto drivers.
gm
If I come up behind walkers/strollers/dog walkers/ bikers riding side-by-side, and not leaving a wide berth to pass, I announce that I'm behind them. I'm almost at a stop by this point, so can react to which ever way they part. If they are a single rider/runner/walker, and are to the far right leaving a lot of space to pass, I typically do not announce when behind, but may say/wave hi as I pass them. I also generally have a little music playing quietly...most people without a lot of banter going on, or earbuds are going to hear me coming.
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Old 06-05-19, 09:46 AM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by Spinay70 View Post
I have noticed that when i am out riding and get passed by a 'serious' rider, they rarely announce. I have also seen them buzz past unsuspecting walkers without a word.

This past weekend i spied a 'serious' rider approaching fast in my rear view and they ended up zipping by without any word...and quite close as well.
Originally Posted by Aahzz View Post
I just headed out to our local-ish MUP for the first time this year a couple days ago. I love riding it, because it's a welcome break from my hilly and traffic-filled neighborhood, but the number of "serious riders" buzzing us on road bikes without announcing is irritating as heck.

It takes so little effort to announce, or to ring a bell - just have a touch of courtesy. I tend to be about mid-paced for the trail - I pass a lot of slower riders, and I get passed a lot. I always announce, and usually get thanked for it.

Ride fast, ride your ride, but be courteous. My favorite was on a ride last year when not only did he buzz me with about a foot to spare, and no announcement, he spat to the side after he got in front of me and it blew into my face.
From the now closed thread. “On Your Left”:
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
As a mirror wearer, I like to wave if I see a cyclist coming up from behind, and say hello when they get close, with the intention of (gently) surprising them before they surprise me.

An upcoming paceline makes me think of a school of piranhas.
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
… Rte 4/225 from Lexington westward is one of my favorite long (about 70 miles) training rides from Boston; and then I return by way of Harvard.

Last year, for about 3-4 hours along the route, starting in Boston, I was passed by wave after wave of strong riders on the B to B Harpoon ride going up to Vermont.

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Old 06-05-19, 10:23 AM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by FiftySix View Post
My wife can't hear me in my own house because both her ears are filled with tiny speakers blaring Christian music.

Oh the humanity.
That's why atheists are safest on the MUP -
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Old 06-05-19, 06:22 PM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by FiftySix View Post
My wife can't hear me in my own house because both her ears are filled with tiny speakers blaring Christian music.

Oh the humanity.
Thank your lucky stars she is willing to wear the ear buds!!
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Old 06-06-19, 08:15 PM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I use "passing on your left" said in as pleasant a voice I can muster audibly. The only time I've seen it cause confusion is when someone doesn't understand English.

I'm glad the bell works for you. I'm just sick of illogical arguments that it's somehow superior to announcing, and my point that I find bells a bit more annoying is only to note that that is a very subjective thing.

I do think it is objectively true that words can convey more information than bell sounds, so I always find the "people get confused when I announce" arguments for why everyone should use bells rather disingenuous. I also realize that not everyone is capable of clearly and audibly stating their intentions without sounding like they're screaming unpleasantly, so I really don't question people about why they prefer a bell. You can always buy a different bell, you are generally stuck with the voice you have.
I think the most important part is to ring or announce before making the pass which I'm sure you do. My local MUPS have a lot of foreigners (most speak at least a little English) but there's so many bikes everyone's used to "passing on the left", I don't really see folks freaking & jumping out of line. OTOH my local MUP has a narrow adjoining gravel section...one evening I was walking dog (with blinding sun ahead) a biker zoomed by shouting "on the left" & another biker zoomed onto the gravel hollering "on the right" at the same time, he nearly clobbered me & a woman ahead.

I guess the rude bikers don't read BF. The real bikers like actual (not pretend) racers, commuters & tourists are pretty polite. When I was 16 I was kinda rude, passing 3-wide on the (then) narrower paths. One time I zoomed by a family w/little kids...Dad objected & I realized I wasn't being very nice. But now I see riders of all ages that can't be bothered to slow down a bit to avoid the 3-wide pass, as if they're setting some new personal best time.
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Old 06-07-19, 04:05 AM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by DropBarFan View Post
I think the most important part is to ring or announce before making the pass which I'm sure you do. My local MUPS have a lot of foreigners (most speak at least a little English) but there's so many bikes everyone's used to "passing on the left", I don't really see folks freaking & jumping out of line. OTOH my local MUP has a narrow adjoining gravel section...one evening I was walking dog (with blinding sun ahead) a biker zoomed by shouting "on the left" & another biker zoomed onto the gravel hollering "on the right" at the same time, he nearly clobbered me & a woman ahead.

I guess the rude bikers don't read BF. The real bikers like actual (not pretend) racers, commuters & tourists are pretty polite. When I was 16 I was kinda rude, passing 3-wide on the (then) narrower paths. One time I zoomed by a family w/little kids...Dad objected & I realized I wasn't being very nice. But now I see riders of all ages that can't be bothered to slow down a bit to avoid the 3-wide pass, as if they're setting some new personal best time.
Just to be clear, I ride on a lot of paths, some very crowded. I ride pretty fast so I pass thousands of people a month. I could count on one hand the number of times people have been confused. It happens very rarely.
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Old 06-07-19, 06:27 AM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Just to be clear, I ride on a lot of paths, some very crowded. I ride pretty fast so I pass thousands of people a month. I could count on one hand the number of times people have been confused. It happens very rarely.
I firmly believe the unpredictable actions of pedestrians who hear "on your left" are overstated. Significantly. I'd go so far as to say some posters are making stuff up. I would encourage anyone who has had unpredictable reactions to that try what you and I do. A slight change in language has served us almost flawlessly and we ride in different parts of the country.

Scrub off speed
Announce in conversational tone "I am coming around your left"
Be prepared to react to an unlikely unpredictable action
Pass with minimal disparity
If the person or persons being passed aren't budded up, say something pleasant to them and smile
Accelerate once clear

I don't really feel a need to be a rolling ambassador for bicyclists, but I am aware of the fact that those pedestrians drive too. A pleasant interaction on the path sets the stage for pleasant interactions on the road. When I pass kids I almost always tell them that their bike or helmet is cool. That can do more to shape their impression of bicyclists than just about anything else.
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Old 06-07-19, 12:07 PM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
That'll work too, especially if you really whoop it up and wear an anti-vaxxer T-shirt.
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Old 06-07-19, 03:54 PM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
I firmly believe the unpredictable actions of pedestrians who hear "on your left" are overstated. Significantly. I'd go so far as to say some posters are making stuff up. I would encourage anyone who has had unpredictable reactions to that try what you and I do. A slight change in language has served us almost flawlessly and we ride in different parts of the country.
I wish you were with me last night when the drunk guy on the MUP jumped out of his skin when I said, in a nice tone, "coming by on your left". No, I don't make this stuff up.
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Old 06-08-19, 08:36 AM
  #98  
starchase
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I used to let a cheap Walmart bell announce for me until it broke, and I can't find the single note item to replace it and don't want to do experimental purchasing to find one (already wasted money doing that). Now I just give people on the sidewalk--no multi-use paths around my area--a wide berth especially since list year when I gave a jogger running past me wide berth on the sidewalk and inadvertently allowed my front tire to drop off the walkway causing a spill resulting in a cracked collarbone and a couple ribs, though I didn't realize it at the time and completed my 15 mile route; my first person-related crash in 4700 miles! But it did teach me to keep everyone wide berth!
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Old 06-10-19, 09:49 AM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by starchase View Post
I used to let a cheap Walmart bell announce for me until it broke, and I can't find the single note item to replace it and don't want to do experimental purchasing to find one (already wasted money doing that). Now I just give people on the sidewalk--no multi-use paths around my area--a wide berth especially since list year when I gave a jogger running past me wide berth on the sidewalk and inadvertently allowed my front tire to drop off the walkway causing a spill resulting in a cracked collarbone and a couple ribs, though I didn't realize it at the time and completed my 15 mile route; my first person-related crash in 4700 miles! But it did teach me to keep everyone wide berth!
Better yet: just stay off of the sidewalks and use the road.
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Old 06-10-19, 02:01 PM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
Better yet: just stay off of the sidewalks and use the road.
+1 Bicycles are really not meant to be on standard-sized sidewalks. Sorry for your injury.
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