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Bertin bike

Old 06-15-19, 08:33 PM
  #1  
marius.suiram 
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Bertin bike

Only one picture.
Any idea of the model and period?
Maybe a evaluation.
Thanks for any reply.

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Old 06-15-19, 09:44 PM
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frame looks early '70's

cycle may have begun life as something comparable to a U08

has been the recipient of work/changes

note stamped ends without gear hanger; rear mech mounts with plate

note that the shift levers are Juy Prestige while the mechs are both higher (and later) Juy models

the Verot TS bis chainset appears slightly later than cycle, looks as if the marking on the arm may be Peugeot rather than Stronglight

original chainset likely cottered steel

pedals are Lyotard nr. 36

Sakae Ringyo handlebar stem could not be original; may be sitting so high because it is 22.2mm and the person who "installed" it could not get it in any deeper...

the curved (Atom/Maillard) skewers did not launch until 1973, note that wheels appear tubulars although they wear a spoke protector: an odd combination

yet another "tin of worms" heavily frankened machine...

greatest practical value might be for cannibalisation

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Last edited by juvela; 06-16-19 at 10:57 AM.
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Old 06-16-19, 06:32 AM
  #3  
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If you need some parts and its cheap, why not? Otherwise, I'd pass.
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Old 06-16-19, 07:12 AM
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Thanks. I'll pass
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Old 06-16-19, 08:44 AM
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I'm not convinced that it's early 1970s and heavily frankenbiked. I don't know many owners who convert from wired-on to tubulars. It could be a C-34, which had a tubular option. While, it does have stamped dropouts, I'm used to seeing top tube cable stops on the boom era, entry level models. The presence of cable clips could indicate something slightly level and later, which would be consistent with the drivetrain. The post also looks to fairly large diameter. This may be some sort of tretubi. @bertinjim may have some more insight. If the price and driving distance was reasonable, I'd probably go have a look.
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Old 06-16-19, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
I'm not convinced that it's early 1970s and heavily frankenbiked. I don't know many owners who convert from wired-on to tubulars. It could be a C-34, which had a tubular option. While, it does have stamped dropouts, I'm used to seeing top tube cable stops on the boom era, entry level models. The presence of cable clips could indicate something slightly level and later, which would be consistent with the drivetrain. The post also looks to fairly large diameter. This may be some sort of tretubi. @bertinjim may have some more insight. If the price and driving distance was reasonable, I'd probably go have a look.
I don't understand why everyone calls a bike without a matching group from HS to cranks to hubs to toe straps a frankenbike. Until the late '80s only the top tier bikes tended to come with full groups right?
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Old 06-16-19, 01:32 PM
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in this case it has to do with many fittings which are not original

nothing to do with road ensembles per se

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Old 06-16-19, 01:34 PM
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These were posted in C&V in the "ebay/CL lookin for...." thread
https://erie.craigslist.org/bik/d/er...912741417.html
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Old 06-16-19, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by hazetguy View Post
These were posted in C&V in the "ebay/CL lookin for...." thread
https://erie.craigslist.org/bik/d/er...912741417.html
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Thank you!

Marius somehow failed to mention that there were two of the beasts.


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Old 06-16-19, 06:26 PM
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It/they may be early 1980s Bertin C 132s based on the full Durifort frameset, geometry and the Cyclotouisme sticker on top of the down tube.
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Old 06-16-19, 08:40 PM
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I grew up next to a bike store that sold Bertins. I thought they were lovely bikes and I'd love to find one someday to restore.
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Old 06-16-19, 09:54 PM
  #12  
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Frames differ at least insofar as second one exhibits forged ends.

It wears a Huret transfer so perhaps the Duopar is original.

The Avocet chainset and KKT Top Run pedals look a bit out of place on an Andy product.





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Old 06-17-19, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
I don't understand why everyone calls a bike without a matching group from HS to cranks to hubs to toe straps a frankenbike. Until the late '80s only the top tier bikes tended to come with full groups right?

As juvela stated, frankenbike is used to refer to a bicycle which has replacement parts, just like Frankenstein's monster. It may or may not have had a component selection involving ****geneous branding and models.


However, to answer the 2nd part of your question, depending on your definition of what constitutes a group, ****geneously branded groups on mid-range and lower bicycles, pre-date the late 1980s. It is generally accepted that the mid-1970s Campagnolo Nuovo Gran Sport and Shimano 600 were mid-range groups. A case could argued for Shimano's 1981 Adamas AX being the an entry level group, as it contained derailleurs, shift levers, crankset, pedals, hubs, brakeset and even it;'s own saddle.


Most people consider the first component group to be mid-1950s Campagnolo Gran Sport, but it could even be argued that the component group dates back to the birth of the bicycle. At that time there were no component suppliers. The early bicycle companies were manufacturing most of the components themselves. By the time of the first bicycle boom, in the 1890s, most of the big manufacturers were offering bicycles with mostly proprietary components. I've had bicycles where the frame, forks, hubs, spokes, rims, crankset, pedals, brakes, headset, handlebars, stem and seat post were all manufactured in-house by the same bicycle company.


What did happen in the very late 1980s was the proliferation of groups. In the 1970s the price range between entry level and high end was relatively small for a full range manufacturer, typically $400-$500. A full product line could be handled with a relatively small selection of components. However, by the very late 1980s, the price differential between a bottom of the line and top of the line models had grown to well over $1000. As the differential grew, bicycle manufacturers added models, so as not to leave too a big a gap in price range jumps between models. Designers were creatively specifying bicycles and the non-savvy consumer was being confused by seeing the same derailleur being spec'd on bicycles that could be more than $100 apart. This was causing a lot of frustration for LBS sales personnel, who had to explain the differences.


The component manufacturers responded by introducing more component groups. Essentially, by creating a unique component group for each level, they alleviated consumer (and LBS) frustration. Even though there might be little difference between two or three groups, as long as they had unique group names, the consumer was placated. It made it much easier for the typical consumer to compare bicycles from Brand X and Brand Y.
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Old 06-17-19, 08:04 AM
  #14  
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note on "groups" -

also keep in mind subject bicycle(s) is/are French products where there was no counterpart to Shimano or Campagnolo at the time of their manufacture

closest thing were the two trade groups / export groups of FREXA and GEFFAC

presumably a cycle manufacturer could get a better price on the fittings for a machine if they specified all of them from one or the other...

a situation somewhat similar to the keiretsu in Japan

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earliest group can recall hearing of was one from 1948 where three manufacturers joined forces to offer a short-lived road ensemble of sorts

two of them were Altenburger and Magistroni, unable to remember third

product was exhibited at Paris salon of 1948 IIRC
@T-Mar and @iab will likely know the details on this

this has likely been discussed on CR list where am not a member

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