Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Winter Cycling
Reload this Page >

Wore out my first studded tire

Winter Cycling Don't let snow and ice discourage you this winter. The key element to year-round cycling is proper attire! Check out this winter cycling forum to chat with other ice bike fanatics.

Wore out my first studded tire

Old 12-20-16, 05:37 PM
  #1  
gecho
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,251

Bikes: 2009 Trek 520

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Wore out my first studded tire

The rear 700x35 Schwalbe Marathon Winter tire on my touring bike seems to have reached the end of its useful life. I got it back in late 2010 and put about 3,850 km on it. I've had numerous flats on the tire since the tail end of last season including one today which is not something I want to deal with when its really cold.

A few observations of the current state of the tire. The carbide studs themselves are still in good shape even with a lot of riding on clear asphalt, they really do last longer than the tire itself so I pulled them out to keep. The outer row of studs are in excellent shape, judging from the condition of their tread knobs, those studs seem to rarely make contact with road. Center tire knobs have worn down but are far from worn off. Some cracking of the sidewalls and bead rubber. Steel bead wire has popped out.

I think what did the tire in was due in part to the fact the studs wear so slowly. As the rubber wears down the studs seem to get pushed further into the casing. I noticed that water was able to get into the tire from outside via numerous stud pockets. In addition to getting pushed inward the studs can get pushed back and forth causing stretching of the rubber around the stud leaving gaps. Although the tire has puncture protection, it is only in the very center of the tire and not beneath any of the stud pockets. So the stud pockets without studs or pockets that have become deformed are an avenue through which the tube may easily be punctured. At the end of a season it might be worth checking over the tire and filling any gaps or empty stud pockets with something like Shoe Goo.

Since the side studs didn't see much use I'm planning on replacing the rear tire with the Schwalbe Winter tire that only has center studs.
gecho is offline  
Old 12-20-16, 06:43 PM
  #2  
benetga
Senior Member
 
benetga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Illinois
Posts: 96

Bikes: Trek 1.1- Commuter, Nashbar Carbon105 -Sunday ride, Specialized Rockhopper-SS Winter Bike

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanks for the information. I wondered the longevity of winter tires. I am now in my second year using Schwable Winter tires and the're showing little wear.

They seem to roll easier after using them for awhile. I run mine with Mr Tuffy tire liners just in case.Getting a flat on a dark frigid morning is not something I want to deal with.
benetga is offline  
Old 12-20-16, 09:45 PM
  #3  
Archwhorides 
Senior Member
 
Archwhorides's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Boston
Posts: 763

Bikes: Death machines all

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 233 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 8 Posts
Very useful information in this report, thanks!
__________________
Work is the curse of the drinking classes - Oscar Wilde
Archwhorides is offline  
Old 12-21-16, 12:27 AM
  #4  
Bike Gremlin
Bike Gremlin
 
Bike Gremlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Novi Sad
Posts: 4,088

Bikes: Custom made on Scott Speedster frame, Custom made on a 1996. steel MTB frame (all but frame changed at least once in the past 20 years).

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 945 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by gecho View Post
Since the side studs didn't see much use I'm planning on replacing the rear tire with the Schwalbe Winter tire that only has center studs.
Side studs are important. In case of getting into an uneven icy part (car tyre track got frozen) - easier to climb out of it with side studs. Also, in case the bike starts leaning on either side, for whatever reason (intentional, or a slip) - side studs are good last resort measure.
Bike Gremlin is offline  
Old 12-21-16, 12:36 AM
  #5  
dabac
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,938
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 813 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Over here there are numerous reports of SMW studs wearing through to the inside. It happens to Suomityres/Nokian eventually too, but usually at a higher mileage.
You can eke out a little more life out of them by lining the tire with duct tape, if you want to put off buying new tires to next season.

And while your center studs certainly sees most action, I'd be wary about trading down. It's like removing the compression bandage from the first aid kit based on "it's only the band-aids getting used anyhow".
dabac is offline  
Old 12-21-16, 07:50 AM
  #6  
BobbyG
Senior Member
 
BobbyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 4,312

Bikes: 2015 Charge Plug, 1997 Nishiki Blazer, 1984 Nishiki International

Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 814 Post(s)
Liked 94 Times in 53 Posts
THanks for sharing I found that interesting. Would tire liners have helped?
BobbyG is offline  
Old 12-21-16, 09:18 AM
  #7  
gecho
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,251

Bikes: 2009 Trek 520

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Slaninar View Post
Side studs are important.
I'll definitely keep the full compliment of studs for the front wheel. On my mountain bike I use an Ice Spiker on the front and a Marathon Winter in the rear. I like the extra front end stability and an aggressive front tire doesn't seem to slow me down as much as having one in the rear does.

Originally Posted by BobbyG View Post
THanks for sharing I found that interesting. Would tire liners have helped?
Liners probably would have got me through the season, but since the sidewalls were cracking I decided to just replace the tire.
gecho is offline  
Old 12-21-16, 09:34 AM
  #8  
Divebrian
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 160
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Since I live in Florida, I have a question for you cold weather guys. Are you using studded tires on the street or offroad. I won't ride in anything colder than 55, but you cray people do intrigue me.
Divebrian is offline  
Old 12-21-16, 09:38 AM
  #9  
Bike Gremlin
Bike Gremlin
 
Bike Gremlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Novi Sad
Posts: 4,088

Bikes: Custom made on Scott Speedster frame, Custom made on a 1996. steel MTB frame (all but frame changed at least once in the past 20 years).

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 945 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
I ride in the street (public roads).
Rarely off road in the winter.

Lowest I did was -20 Celsius. If it's fine for skiing, it's fine for cycling.
Bike Gremlin is offline  
Old 12-21-16, 09:43 AM
  #10  
9volt 
Senior Member
 
9volt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: WI
Posts: 903
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
What tire pressure are you running? I'd be interested to hear what pressures people recommend with 700c and 26" studded tires. This is my first year on studs and the 26x2.1 Nokain tires I'm using seem to work best at lower pressures. The outer studs appear to get more use this way.
9volt is offline  
Old 12-21-16, 10:26 AM
  #11  
Tim_Iowa
Senior Member
 
Tim_Iowa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Posts: 1,648

Bikes: 1997 Rivendell Road Standard 650b conversion (tourer), 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10 (gravel/tour), 2013 Foundry Auger disc (CX/gravel), 2016 Cannondale Fat CAAD 2 (MTB/winter), 2011 Cannondale Flash 29er Lefty (trail MTB)

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 166 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Divebrian View Post
Since I live in Florida, I have a question for you cold weather guys. Are you using studded tires on the street or offroad. I won't ride in anything colder than 55, but you cray people do intrigue me.
Both!



But seriously, studded tires are usually intended for pavement. They keep you upright if you cross any ice. Ice is common when the snow melts during the day and re-freezes overnight.

Studs don't do much off-road--unless the off-road surface is ice.
Tim_Iowa is offline  
Old 12-21-16, 10:27 AM
  #12  
BobbyG
Senior Member
 
BobbyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 4,312

Bikes: 2015 Charge Plug, 1997 Nishiki Blazer, 1984 Nishiki International

Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 814 Post(s)
Liked 94 Times in 53 Posts
Originally Posted by gecho View Post
Liners probably would have got me through the season, but since the sidewalls were cracking I decided to just replace the tire.
Yes, they sound done.
BobbyG is offline  
Old 12-21-16, 10:34 AM
  #13  
gecho
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,251

Bikes: 2009 Trek 520

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
With my 700x35 marathon winter tires I run my pressure close to the max rated. The sidewalls are so stiff that the rolling resistance noticeably increases when running it at lower pressures on hard surfaces. They are so narrow nothing is going to make those tires float on snow anyway. On my mtb I run the pressure just high enough that I don't get any tire flop while cornering.
gecho is offline  
Old 12-21-16, 07:07 PM
  #14  
PaulRivers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 6,305
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 432 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Divebrian View Post
Since I live in Florida, I have a question for you cold weather guys. Are you using studded tires on the street or offroad. I won't ride in anything colder than 55, but you cray people do intrigue me.
If you never see ice on the road ever, you should not get studded tires. Studs are for gripping into ice, they have less traction on dry open pavement than rubber does.
PaulRivers is offline  
Old 12-22-16, 03:46 AM
  #15  
dabac
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,938
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 813 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Divebrian View Post
Since I live in Florida, I have a question for you cold weather guys. Are you using studded tires on the street or offroad. I won't ride in anything colder than 55, but you cray people do intrigue me.
I use studs when/wherever the ride surface has considerable parts of ice or hardpack.
I can ride in any temperature I can ski or skate in.

Only problem is the risk of mechanical issues. The bike is more likely to suffer a mechanical issue than the skis or skates.
dabac is offline  
Old 12-22-16, 04:02 AM
  #16  
Bike Gremlin
Bike Gremlin
 
Bike Gremlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Novi Sad
Posts: 4,088

Bikes: Custom made on Scott Speedster frame, Custom made on a 1996. steel MTB frame (all but frame changed at least once in the past 20 years).

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 945 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by gecho View Post
With my 700x35 marathon winter tires I run my pressure close to the max rated. The sidewalls are so stiff that the rolling resistance noticeably increases when running it at lower pressures on hard surfaces. They are so narrow nothing is going to make those tires float on snow anyway. On my mtb I run the pressure just high enough that I don't get any tire flop while cornering.
I use lower pressure when there is snow. They grip noticeably better. For pavement with bits of ice - max pressure, so studs stay off the pavement and, like you said, less rolling resistance.
Bike Gremlin is offline  
Old 12-22-16, 04:04 PM
  #17  
noglider 
aka Tom Reingold
 
noglider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: West Village, New York City
Posts: 37,124

Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1973 Raleigh Twenty, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem

Mentioned: 420 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5373 Post(s)
Liked 89 Times in 68 Posts
Originally Posted by Divebrian View Post
Since I live in Florida, I have a question for you cold weather guys. Are you using studded tires on the street or offroad. I won't ride in anything colder than 55, but you cray people do intrigue me.
If you moved, there is a good chance you would get used to it. I know lots of people who come from hotter climates than yours, and they bundle up the same as we do, and they learn to live with it. In the US, people who ride in the winter are hardier than average, but not because we're crazy. It's a matter of refining the gear and clothing to work for us, which takes trial and error. Last winter, I tried a ski helmet, which, for me, was transformative. I hadn't realized how cold my head and face get until that went away.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author

Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
noglider is offline  
Old 12-23-16, 10:26 AM
  #18  
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 41,674

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 188 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6836 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 215 Times in 179 Posts
FWIW Suomi Nokian studded tires use a quite long wearing harder (even when it is warm out) compound..
fietsbob is online now  
Old 12-23-16, 12:33 PM
  #19  
rumrunn6
Senior Member
 
rumrunn6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Posts: 22,899

Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r

Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3029 Post(s)
Liked 114 Times in 92 Posts
time to shop!
rumrunn6 is offline  
Old 12-24-16, 09:44 PM
  #20  
aggiegrads
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sherwood, OR
Posts: 705
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 76 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I use the Marathon winter 26" on a Long Haul trucker. I weigh about 160 pounds and I run pressures like this:

55psi - little to no chance of ice, just too lazy to change wheels - no stud contact
35psi - below freezing, good chance of ice - this leaves the center row of studs in contact with pavement
25psi - below freezing, definite ice or significant hardpack - both rows of studs contact pavement for max grip

I've gone four seasons with 2-3 12 mile roundtrip commutes and the tires show no wear on the outside. I have never flatted, so I don't know what the insides look like.

I've been super happy with them and would replace them in a heartbeat.
aggiegrads is offline  
Old 12-24-16, 10:35 PM
  #21  
79pmooney
A Roadie Forever
 
79pmooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 6,896

Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder

Mentioned: 92 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1637 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 60 Times in 51 Posts
Originally Posted by gecho View Post
Since the side studs didn't see much use I'm planning on replacing the rear tire with the Schwalbe Winter tire that only has center studs.
If you ride in traffic, seriously consider NOT side studs just front. A very foreseeable situation - you are over to the right and there are car tire ruts in the bike lane or you are out around the rut of the cars' right tire. There is a car behind you, either trying to pass or just driving a little too close. It is far enough to the left that while it is uncomfortably close behind, not an issue. You happen to be in a tire rut. You get a little too close to the left side of the rut and need another inch. Your front side spikes do there job ans you climb out, but you do find you have to oversteer some to do it. Now your front tire is a few inches to the left of your rear - but! - your rear tire won't climb out, no side studs. It just keeps going down the rut.

This quickly gets really bad. Bike goes 90 degrees, front tire wanting to go left, rear straight. Bike lays down. You scramble off and don't get hurt - until that car bumper or right front wheel hits you because he cannot stop and that is where you now are.

I did virtually this with the same dynamics on smooth ice. Fortunately the car wasn't there. I lost it, had to counter steer to the left to stay up. Got my front tire over the painted bike lane stripe successfully and thought I could keep the bike up but lost it when the rear tire slide out on the same stripe. I ended up well into the car lane. I have also (in fact just a week ago) had to deal with auto ruts in the bike lane in traffic, same (good snow/ice) tires front and rear and has to do the first scenario above, but the rear tire behaved and climbed out also. Put me two feet closer to the cars but parallel, upright and in control.

If you pass on the side studs both front and rear, you will do more crashed but generally, your tires will not get very far from the rut that took you down so your body and head only get so far toward the line of cars.

Yes, rear tires that slip more make for (in general) "better" crashes. Fewer broken bones, etc. But swerves into cars makes for a much worse outcome and the odds are that their ABS brakes aren't going to cut it. Not if they are on the same stuff you are. And drivers will NOT be expecting your sudden near right angle turn.

I have always ridden identical tires front and rear in the winter. They have served me well (for the most part - there was always the one ride where the tires were "wrong" when I crashed three times on the same street). But that paint stripe crash stood out as the one that put me into traffic and it was the rear tire not following the front that did it.

Ben
79pmooney is offline  
Old 12-25-16, 12:52 AM
  #22  
Bike Gremlin
Bike Gremlin
 
Bike Gremlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Novi Sad
Posts: 4,088

Bikes: Custom made on Scott Speedster frame, Custom made on a 1996. steel MTB frame (all but frame changed at least once in the past 20 years).

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 945 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
If you know what kind of tyres you have, you won't try such manoeuvres. Even with both studded tyres, moving out of a rut with a car close behind is a dangerous thing to do.
Bike Gremlin is offline  
Old 12-25-16, 09:30 AM
  #23  
gecho
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,251

Bikes: 2009 Trek 520

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I kept all the studs from the old tire so I can always put them in the new tire if needed.
gecho is offline  
Old 12-27-16, 10:00 AM
  #24  
wolfchild
Senior Member
 
wolfchild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 5,541

Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1333 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 37 Times in 21 Posts
I wore out a pair of Nokian Extremes 294's few years ago. The sidewalls ripped and the centre studs and treads wore out. I also pulled out all the side studs which were good and keet them as spares.
wolfchild is offline  
Old 12-27-16, 03:48 PM
  #25  
Rick Imby
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 671
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 239 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I have almost always run home made studs. I first studded tires in 87 with roofing nails. They pushed back out quickly.

I now use self drilling hardened K-lath screws. I put an old inner tube I have sliced around the inside over a thorn tube.

I run these at max psi for the tire.

Tire selection makes a big difference as I run the stud up through a tire stud.
Rick Imby is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.