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Shingles!!

Old 11-22-17, 02:23 AM
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
Being wrong about facts isn't a permanent condition.
Originally Posted by canklecat View Post

The history of vaccination in America is as old as the United States itself. It isn't new. It isn't some plot to deprive patriots of their precious bodily fluids or turn them into commies.
Since the father of the very notion of infectious agents and the possibility of vaccines wasn't born until 1822 (Louis Pasteur, for those who have forgotten your science history facts, which is completely separate from science facts, which is itself completely separate from science. Now where was I? Oh yeah), the history of vaccination isn't quite as old as the United States. Heck, we had slaves and still didn't have the slightest notion about viruses or vaccines.

I'm done teasing you. All in fun. Your points are well taken and valid, imo.
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Old 11-22-17, 02:32 AM
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Shingles is near and dear to me. My entire family was in the office of a PA dermatologist one fine day for something affecting my minor son. At the end of the appointment, I asked the PA if she had a moment to look at something on me. I pulled off my shirt to show her a new rash and she chuckled a bit at the classic presentation of shingles. Then she looked a bit more carefully and found a (benign) basil cell carcinoma that needed removal (too much backstroke as a child swimmer, I guess). Lucky me, my shingles was very trivial. A decade later, I had it again but milder still. I'm undecided about the vaccine, but figure I've got a few more years of immunity before I need to boost it; I'll likely go for it.

Vaccines are nice. A physician, or PA, with a good education and a good eye are even better.

Another anecdote on vaccines: One fine fall I got my first flu shot. the ensuing December, I was nearly killed by a terrible bronchitis. I credit the flu shot with saving my life, since I don't see how I could have survived had I gotten the flu on top of bronchitis. I could be wrong, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it (like those folks who break their cycling helmets and credit them for saving their lives).
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Old 11-22-17, 02:48 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by B. Carfree View Post
Since the father of the very notion of infectious agents and the possibility of vaccines wasn't born until 1822 (Louis Pasteur, for those who have forgotten your science history facts, which is completely separate from science facts, which is itself completely separate from science. Now where was I? Oh yeah), the history of vaccination isn't quite as old as the United States. Heck, we had slaves and still didn't have the slightest notion about viruses or vaccines.

I'm done teasing you. All in fun. Your points are well taken and valid, imo.
The earliest recorded history of inoculation dates back to 16th century China and variolation -- a crude but effective form of smallpox inoculation. Variolation for smallpox was practiced throughout Europe and in the American colonies by the early 1700s, even before Jenner was credited with developing a smallpox vaccine in the 1790s.

Smallpox was such a concern in early American history that John Adams wrote the disease was as much a challenge to the American revolution as all of its human enemies combined. Washington ordered mandatory inoculations for soldiers who had not already been exposed or inoculated through the earlier variolation technique.
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Old 11-22-17, 03:47 AM
  #29  
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Geez, this place is awash in armchair physicians lately, it's really getting out of hand. And you can't shake a stick without hitting a medical historian or Constitutional Law expert.

I had better buy an ascot or something.
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Old 11-22-17, 03:55 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Timtruro View Post
I was looking forward to a lot of rides this fall but early in September I contracted a severe case of shingles. Its been painful, irritating and debilitating. Consequently no riding since about September 4th. Just now feeling a bit better although I still tire easily. Of course my doctor had advised getting the vaccine but I never thought it would happen to ME. Please if you're over 50, get the shot, don't leave it to chance like I did.
63 here, I had a mild attack a few years ago but I finally got my shot this year. My wife went thru a terrible attack 2 years ago. Agreed, get the shot!!!
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Old 11-22-17, 04:22 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
The earliest recorded history of inoculation dates back to 16th century China and variolation -- a crude but effective form of smallpox inoculation. Variolation for smallpox was practiced throughout Europe and in the American colonies by the early 1700s, even before Jenner was credited with developing a smallpox vaccine in the 1790s.

Smallpox was such a concern in early American history that John Adams wrote the disease was as much a challenge to the American revolution as all of its human enemies combined. Washington ordered mandatory inoculations for soldiers who had not already been exposed or inoculated through the earlier variolation technique.
Yes, the early version of smallpox 'vaccination' played an important role in the revolutionary war. The story I've read is that Cotton Mather heard of the technique from a West African slave and applied it during the 1721 epidemic in Boston. George Washington was familiar with the technique and had his soldiers vaccinated (actually variolated) to greatly reduce the effects of an epidemic in the early years of the revolution.
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Old 11-22-17, 11:11 AM
  #32  
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My doctor and I have thoroughly debated the vaccine for me. I have issues where my immune system goes in overdrive for some viruses. My joints will painfully swell to the point I can’t walk. The last episode was 4-5 years ago and landed me in the hospital for a week. I was off the bike for 2-3 months. I went from riding 100 milers to a wheelchair in 3 days. I progressed to a walker then to crutches. Atrophy was awful!!

Based my sensitivity to viruses we’ve agreed NOT to introduce any more viruses into my body unless there aren’t any other options. Keeping my fingers crossed........
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Old 11-22-17, 12:04 PM
  #33  
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My doctor recommended the shingles vaccine last year (my age then 57) and suggested I check with my insurance first because there's sometimes a higher copay or they don't want to cover it. Checked and insurance said hell yeah, covered 100%, so I got it, May 2016. I don't see the vaccine name on my record, it just says immunized for zoster.
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Old 11-22-17, 03:03 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott View Post
My doctor recommended the shingles vaccine last year (my age then 57) and suggested I check with my insurance first because there's sometimes a higher copay or they don't want to cover it.
That's what my doctor said a year or two ago, but I never got around to it. Now that the newer vaccine is available I am more inclined to actually go ahead with it. But I suspect the new vaccine isn't covered by insurance yet.
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Old 11-22-17, 04:06 PM
  #35  
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Older less effective vaccine: Zostavax, 'free" if on medicare. Check with insco otherwise.
New vaccine: Shingrix insurance status TBA, probably will be covered soon if not already.
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Old 11-22-17, 05:06 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by sch View Post
Older less effective vaccine: Zostavax, 'free" if on medicare. Check with insco otherwise.
New vaccine: Shingrix insurance status TBA, probably will be covered soon if not already.
Might be a while before Shingrix fully available. Hopefully, won't be too long.
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Old 11-22-17, 06:04 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by JanMM View Post
Might be a while before Shingrix fully available. Hopefully, won't be too long.
That's another thing - I need to send a DM to my doctor via their damnable portal to see if they had the thing yet.
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Old 11-22-17, 08:40 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Colnago Mixte View Post
Geez, this place is awash in armchair physicians lately, it's really getting out of hand. And you can't shake a stick without hitting a medical historian or Constitutional Law expert.
You don't have to be an historian or legal expert. It's really just common sense.
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Old 11-22-17, 10:07 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
Try gabapentin/Neurontin, if she hasn't already, or consider asking to increase the dosage. It's very effective with neuropathic pain in some folks, and appears to be quite safe for most patients.

As I said, we have tried everything, including Neurontin, Lyrica, morphine, and a whole host of other drugs, patches, lotions especially compounded, etc. We are way ahead of you in trying things.


For some, tremendous intolerable side effects. For others, no effect at all. We have searched the country for all possible providers and solutions, ending up with a highly rated neurological specialist and internationally known researcher.
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Old 11-22-17, 11:42 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by gobicycling View Post
As I said, we have tried everything, including Neurontin, Lyrica, morphine, and a whole host of other drugs, patches, lotions especially compounded, etc. We are way ahead of you in trying things.


For some, tremendous intolerable side effects. For others, no effect at all. We have searched the country for all possible providers and solutions, ending up with a highly rated neurological specialist and internationally known researcher.
Sorry to hear that. I can only imagine the discomfort. I've had severe headaches since childhood, variously diagnosed by neurologists as migraines, cluster headaches and trigeminal neuralgia. But it's not a daily thing and sometimes I'll go weeks without a severe headache.

Best wishes finding something that works.
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Old 11-23-17, 07:54 PM
  #41  
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Here is the most informative article I've found on Shingrix, and the shortcomings of Zostavax: https://www.consumerreports.org/shin...u-should-know/

Last edited by Shimagnolo; 11-24-17 at 11:01 PM.
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Old 11-24-17, 10:30 PM
  #42  
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I've had shingles at least 3 years in a row. I had a rash this summer and my wife said it looked like shingles again which would be 4 years in a row. I have permanent nerve damage in my back from the second time I had them. I was told by my doctor that I have to be shingle free for 2 years before I can get the shot. I asked about the shot this year and was told they changed the age to 60+. It had been age 50 but apparently it was changed to 60. I'm 55 and the nurse said she thinks I could get the shot if I wanted to pay for it. Told me it was over $300 because it was the new vaccine. I'm on Lyrica for my nerve pain. I've also heard of those who get the shot and still get shingles.
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Old 11-25-17, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by BLR View Post
I've also heard of those who get the shot and still get shingles.
No viral vaccine claims to be 100% effective. The old shingles vaccine (Zostavax) reduces the risk of developing shingles by 51% and post-herpetic neuralgia (PHN) by 67%.

The new vaccine, Shingrix, is claimed to reduce the risk of developing shingles by 97.2% in subjects 50 years and older.
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Old 11-26-17, 04:23 PM
  #44  
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Shingles & flu shots

I had shingles in my left eye when I was 50 in 2009...thought it was poison ivy until I was referred to an opthamologist who diagnosed the shingles. It took over a month of prescriptions and wearing my sunglasses all day (I was very light sensitive) before the medication was effective. Was told that I should have the vaccine...finally had it this year when my wife asked about it when we received our flu shots...although both arms were sore for a while, I am glad we now have the protection.
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Old 11-27-17, 10:32 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
No viral vaccine claims to be 100% effective. The old shingles vaccine (Zostavax) reduces the risk of developing shingles by 51% and post-herpetic neuralgia (PHN) by 67%.

The new vaccine, Shingrix, is claimed to reduce the risk of developing shingles by 97.2% in subjects 50 years and older.
Actually, vaccines don't stop you from "getting" any virus. They simply help your immune system to recognize and overcome the disease before it goes viral. Sometimes a person who received the vaccine still has the disease reach the point where the symptoms are evident, i.e. it goes "viral". That doesn't mean the vaccine wasn't effective. In many instances with the flu vaccine a person gets the flu, but thinks it's only a cold that they overcame quickly. Because it doesn't reach the more serious level with all the symptoms they don't recognize they actually had a very mild case of the flu.
As for shingles, yes I had a case when I was in college and went through my first set of final exams. Eating poorly, not sleeping the correct amount and some beer drinking probably contributed. During semester break, went home and saw our family doctor who prescribed some ointment and put me on steriods (I think). It took about a month but it all healed up but I had scars until I reached my 40s.
I didn't know about the new vaccine. I'll have to ask my doc about it.
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Old 11-27-17, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by roccobike View Post
Actually, vaccines don't stop you from "getting" any virus. They simply help your immune system to recognize and overcome the disease before it goes viral.
In the case of shingles, you already have the virus from prior exposure to chicken pox; it's just been suppressed by your immune system. If/when your immune system weakens, as happens when we age, or come under stress, the dormant virus can become active and present as shingles. The vaccine bolsters the specific aspects of your immune system that suppress the Herpes zoster virus, and in that manner prevents shingles from developing.
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Old 11-28-17, 10:13 AM
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Visited the doc yesterday ... the new vaccine is still not available ... at least hereabouts.
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Old 11-28-17, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Biker395 View Post
Visited the doc yesterday ... the new vaccine is still not available ... at least hereabouts.
I asked mine as well - got the message that they do not have it yet, but will put me on the list of people to be notified once they do have it.
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Old 12-03-17, 04:23 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
Shingles is a herd immunity issue. It is related to chickenpox, and the varicella-zoster virus is contagious during active outbreaks of shingles.

However the health risks are relatively low compared with other communicable diseases. It's really more of a personal choice issue since the only people likely to be affected are immediate family. Wearing gloves while applying ointments, etc., to the skin of an affected person, and good hand washing, will reduce the risks. I took care of my mom during her shingles outbreak and haven't suffered any ill effects -- so far. I'm 60 now and sometimes it doesn't appear until later in life.

During my childhood in the late 1950s-'60s, conventional wisdom promoted the notion of children deliberately contracting chickenpox in hopes of achieving lifetime immunity. Researchers are continually re-evaluating that theory. My brother and cousin all had chickenpox together in the early '60s, as did just about everyone in our school.

There are some risks of side effects related to meds commonly prescribed for shingles. My mom had a bad reaction to valacyclovir, but she's prone to suffering side effects from all meds -- if there's a remote risk of a side effect, she'll get it. I've withheld information about side effects from her to minimize the risk of psychosomatic symptoms, but even when she knows nothing about the side effects she often displays the exact symptoms described in the literature. I've joked that she could make a fortunate volunteering as a human guinea pig for the pharmaceutical industry.
How do you know that immunology in regards to shingles treatment is more effective than natural medicine and living a healthy lifestyle? Have you studied natural medicine? Or immunology, for that matter?
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Old 12-04-17, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by 1989Pre View Post
How do you know that immunology in regards to shingles treatment is more effective than natural medicine and living a healthy lifestyle? Have you studied natural medicine? Or immunology, for that matter?
If it's not proven by a clinical trial, it's intrigue and nothing more.
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