Why do people want 1x???
05-02-18, 09:46 PM
#101
Senior Member
Yeah, you traded it for 'i've got an overweight, extravagantly expensive IGH with more range that i or 99% of bike users will ever need, and now i have to trumpet my expensive toy at every turn." And you think you came out ahead? Rohloff has 14 gears, and you say you eschewed the more-gears rat race? who you trying to kid, bob?
Last edited by Abu Mahendra; 05-03-18 at 04:03 AM.
05-03-18, 08:26 AM
#102
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I had a range that worked for my commute, but it required a few cogs that I hardly ever used at the low end, and a bit of spinning at the high end. The high end bothered me most, because even though my top speed didn't matter at all (even to me) I just didn't like the feeling of approaching the limit where I couldn't go much faster even if I wanted to.
05-03-18, 10:34 AM
#103
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But cope with it in my shop jobs.. those 10-42t cassettes are only seeming a good deal until you wear 1 out and have to open your wallet replace it...
in a mid drive electric bike you only have 1 chainring. 1 cog on IGH vs a big expensive cassette, with vulnreable ti bending RD .. you pick..
in a mid drive electric bike you only have 1 chainring. 1 cog on IGH vs a big expensive cassette, with vulnreable ti bending RD .. you pick..
For the price of a Rohloff, you can burn through 8 cassettes and trash 4 rear deraileurs and still come out ahead.
If you are looking at flat bars and go with mtb components, it is even cheaper.
I see the parabolic arc of the cogs diameter increases, are trying to widen gear ratio gaps as they get lower..
The table below shows the tooth counts of a 10-42 cassette. The column next to it shows the % increase in gearing ratio from the next cog size down.
11
13---18.2%
15---15.4%
17---13.3%
19---11.8%
22---15.8%
25---13.6%
28---12.0%
32---14.3%
36---12.5%
42---16.7%
an IGH like Rohloff each of the ratios are a % of the next one , so are getting wider by 13.6% going up, narrower going down..
Last edited by Kapusta; 05-03-18 at 10:52 AM.
05-03-18, 11:31 AM
#104
Banned
I got bargains.. Abu, etc, ... did not pay full retail price,
my 2nd hand hubs worked out fine....
I got a whole Koga WTR touring bike with a Rohloff hub shipped to my door,
from NC for $2k..
then fell into a Disc brake Pocket Llama, that someone refused at factory
due to they did not like the color .
It's been my rain bike..
3rd IGH 1 by 9 (Sram i 9) also used, Bike Friday Season Tikit..
...
my 2nd hand hubs worked out fine....
I got a whole Koga WTR touring bike with a Rohloff hub shipped to my door,
from NC for $2k..
then fell into a Disc brake Pocket Llama, that someone refused at factory
due to they did not like the color .
It's been my rain bike..
3rd IGH 1 by 9 (Sram i 9) also used, Bike Friday Season Tikit..
...
Last edited by fietsbob; 10-26-18 at 01:27 PM.
05-03-18, 12:40 PM
#105
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those 10-42t cassettes are only seeming a good deal until you wear 1 out and have to open your wallet replace it...
05-03-18, 02:32 PM
#106
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05-03-18, 05:37 PM
#107
Senior Member
All of this has been pointed out to bob time and time again, but he persists in the Rohloff mantra. To be honest, though, the most objectionable part is the psychology of Rohloff, a psychology of odd rationalizations. And don't get him started on Bike Friday. Same type of spiel.
I find it a bit inconsistent to claim to buck the "1x with more gears in the back" trend and then spend $1300 on a 14 speed rear hub so you can run 1x14.
Say what? you can get a SRAM 10-42t 11 speed cassette for $100. A Rival 1 RD can be had for $100.
For the price of a Rohloff, you can burn through 8 cassettes and trash 4 rear deraileurs and still come out ahead.
If you are looking at flat bars and go with mtb components, it is even cheaper.
Yes and No. Yes, the cog sizes do increase exponentially, but the % difference in the ratios do not.
The table below shows the tooth counts of a 10-42 cassette. The column next to it shows the % increase in gearing ratio from the next cog size down.
11
13---18.2%
15---15.4%
17---13.3%
19---11.8%
22---15.8%
25---13.6%
28---12.0%
32---14.3%
36---12.5%
42---16.7%
The Rohloff does do a better job of keeping the ratios more consistently spaced. And if Gaps over 13-14% bother you, then the 10-42 does have three jumps you won't like, but in practice, I think the one in the middle is the only one I would care about. 42 is a bailout gear, and at the top end I seldom care about cadence, I am just topping off my speed on a DH.
I find it a bit inconsistent to claim to buck the "1x with more gears in the back" trend and then spend $1300 on a 14 speed rear hub so you can run 1x14.
Say what? you can get a SRAM 10-42t 11 speed cassette for $100. A Rival 1 RD can be had for $100.
For the price of a Rohloff, you can burn through 8 cassettes and trash 4 rear deraileurs and still come out ahead.
If you are looking at flat bars and go with mtb components, it is even cheaper.
Yes and No. Yes, the cog sizes do increase exponentially, but the % difference in the ratios do not.
The table below shows the tooth counts of a 10-42 cassette. The column next to it shows the % increase in gearing ratio from the next cog size down.
11
13---18.2%
15---15.4%
17---13.3%
19---11.8%
22---15.8%
25---13.6%
28---12.0%
32---14.3%
36---12.5%
42---16.7%
The Rohloff does do a better job of keeping the ratios more consistently spaced. And if Gaps over 13-14% bother you, then the 10-42 does have three jumps you won't like, but in practice, I think the one in the middle is the only one I would care about. 42 is a bailout gear, and at the top end I seldom care about cadence, I am just topping off my speed on a DH.
05-03-18, 06:26 PM
#108
moving target
05-05-18, 09:11 AM
#111
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Dont you worry, In five years they will sell us triple and 26" like an upgrade
05-05-18, 06:10 PM
#112
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1x offers a lot more flexibility in gearing than a double, unless you go with mountain cranks for climbing gears. Triples are a bit more heavy and have a lot of redundant gears (and if you want brifters, well - I guess you can still buy 4700 Tiagra in a 3x. If you can find it).
I like it for aesthetic reasons. Most of the arguments against it are reasonably aesthetic, too. You don't save much weight, you don't save many dollars, and you have similar range.
If you happen to live in one ring a lot, say for a commuter bike, then you can get a more ideal chainline with a 1x bike than with a 2x bike. I'm sure someone can figure out the cost of longer chain life vs cog wear in a 1x rear cassette. I'd rather ride my bike.
I like it for aesthetic reasons. Most of the arguments against it are reasonably aesthetic, too. You don't save much weight, you don't save many dollars, and you have similar range.
If you happen to live in one ring a lot, say for a commuter bike, then you can get a more ideal chainline with a 1x bike than with a 2x bike. I'm sure someone can figure out the cost of longer chain life vs cog wear in a 1x rear cassette. I'd rather ride my bike.
05-06-18, 09:53 PM
#113
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There's a flip side to gear gaps: For the toughest sections of my rides I'm liking the gaps. Compared to my 2X gravel bike I don't need to shift my new 1X nearly as much on the steep highly variable grade off-road climbs around here.
I bought the bike with the plan of converting 1X to 2X but instead have decided 1X works for me. OP asked why people want 1X? Obviously many don't but I do.
(not on my road bike though)
I bought the bike with the plan of converting 1X to 2X but instead have decided 1X works for me. OP asked why people want 1X? Obviously many don't but I do.
(not on my road bike though)
05-06-18, 10:52 PM
#114
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why 1x, why 2x.
is liken to asking why drop bar, why flat bar, why 25c, why 40c? why 650? why pedal when gas is cheap? why use a hammer when any heavy object with a flat spot can be used as a hammer. why shears when we have knives? why knives when we have shears?
is liken to asking why drop bar, why flat bar, why 25c, why 40c? why 650? why pedal when gas is cheap? why use a hammer when any heavy object with a flat spot can be used as a hammer. why shears when we have knives? why knives when we have shears?
09-13-18, 07:29 PM
#115
Senior Member
1x front shifting....... **
(Did you hear that?)
Anyways - as others have said, there is a place for both and each rider will prefer what they are most comfortable with. Same reason some brands of shoes fit one person great and another person with the same sized foor not so well.
I like the double, especially on the road and where I live. I go from great flats with a slight decline where I can crush the 50x12 and hills 5 miles down the road where 34 x 28 is hardly enough low end to keep me spinning at 70 rpm.
But I like the tight gearing on the road. Not so much on the gravel but where I ride its nice to have the 50 to get me back home quick on the tarmac.
Where I lived before, I never used my small gear. In a 20 mile ride the elevation was maybe 150' on the biggest hill in town.
My wife rides with me and never, ever comes off her 34. Im going to upgrade her to a 38 or 40 1x with an 11x32 or 34 on the rear. I think she will be happy with that.
The thing I really dont understand is a 46x36. That doesnt make sense at all. Maybe a 46x34 or 46x32 or 48x34 but 46x36 makes me scratch my head. I think its marketing to get you to buy another chainring.
-Sean
09-13-18, 07:46 PM
#116
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Shimano front shifting: *ssssnikt* - shift complete.
1x front shifting....... **
(Did you hear that?)
Anyways - as others have said, there is a place for both and each rider will prefer what they are most comfortable with. Same reason some brands of shoes fit one person great and another person with the same sized foor not so well.
I like the double, especially on the road and where I live. I go from great flats with a slight decline where I can crush the 50x12 and hills 5 miles down the road where 34 x 28 is hardly enough low end to keep me spinning at 70 rpm.
But I like the tight gearing on the road. Not so much on the gravel but where I ride its nice to have the 50 to get me back home quick on the tarmac.
Where I lived before, I never used my small gear. In a 20 mile ride the elevation was maybe 150' on the biggest hill in town.
My wife rides with me and never, ever comes off her 34. Im going to upgrade her to a 38 or 40 1x with an 11x32 or 34 on the rear. I think she will be happy with that.
The thing I really dont understand is a 46x36. That doesnt make sense at all. Maybe a 46x34 or 46x32 or 48x34 but 46x36 makes me scratch my head. I think its marketing to get you to buy another chainring.
-Sean
1x front shifting....... **
(Did you hear that?)
Anyways - as others have said, there is a place for both and each rider will prefer what they are most comfortable with. Same reason some brands of shoes fit one person great and another person with the same sized foor not so well.
I like the double, especially on the road and where I live. I go from great flats with a slight decline where I can crush the 50x12 and hills 5 miles down the road where 34 x 28 is hardly enough low end to keep me spinning at 70 rpm.
But I like the tight gearing on the road. Not so much on the gravel but where I ride its nice to have the 50 to get me back home quick on the tarmac.
Where I lived before, I never used my small gear. In a 20 mile ride the elevation was maybe 150' on the biggest hill in town.
My wife rides with me and never, ever comes off her 34. Im going to upgrade her to a 38 or 40 1x with an 11x32 or 34 on the rear. I think she will be happy with that.
The thing I really dont understand is a 46x36. That doesnt make sense at all. Maybe a 46x34 or 46x32 or 48x34 but 46x36 makes me scratch my head. I think its marketing to get you to buy another chainring.
-Sean
46/36 makes sense...if you ride cross. Remember, you're not pedalling all the time, and are frequently dismounting for steep hill climbs as it is faster than pedaling anyway in many cases.
09-13-18, 08:36 PM
#117
Senior Member
A 1x42 10/42 should cover all you need and a 46/36 at that point would just be for closer gearing which may be a slight advantage in cross but most would prefer a 1x? No?
I dont race nor have ever ridden a cross specific course so bear with me as I try to comprehend...
09-13-18, 09:24 PM
#118
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1(42/40/38T depending on your strength and cadence preferences)x 11-32 is usually enough to cover most, possibly as big as 11-36. I've never needed anything lower that wasn't faster running, and in cross you do whats faster
09-14-18, 11:50 AM
#120
Senior Member
My response to the OP, would be, 'what's a hill?' I had triple on my commuter, and went literally multiple years without leaving the middle 36 tooth ring. Flat ground removes any real necessity for multiple rings. When my 36tooth ring wore out, I ripped all 3 off, bought a narrow wide 40tooth chainring, slapped that on, and tore the front deraillieur off. Couldn't be happier.
I've got 46/36 on my cross bike. Which is perfect, as I use the 36 for cross, 46 on the road. But really a 40 tooth single on that would be fine, but I might want to deviate slightly from the 11-28 cassette in back. Not much though.
I've got 46/36 on my cross bike. Which is perfect, as I use the 36 for cross, 46 on the road. But really a 40 tooth single on that would be fine, but I might want to deviate slightly from the 11-28 cassette in back. Not much though.
09-14-18, 12:07 PM
#121
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the 34t Ultegra ring was $13 on ebay.
It's a cx50 crank and even with the ring the total was $80 for it. Just mention this since it didn't seem expensive to buy a new ring.
09-14-18, 12:18 PM
#122
Senior Member
Okay, I didn't read this whole thing so feel free to rip me apart for covering something that has already been covered.
My mountain bike is an older 3x8. When riding on the trail I typically use the smaller inner chain ring. Very occasionally do I kick up to the middle chain ring. If I had a little more range with a 10 or 11 speed cassette, I wouldn't need anything more than a 1x. This bike is a dedicated trail bike that never sees anything besides single track.
A cyclocross bike is designed for similar use and also doesn't need the additional range that a 2x provides. This is why many current cyclocross bikes are 1x drives.
Finally, a gravel bike is intended for a greater range of use and needs the low end of a mountain bike while also needing the higher end of a hybrid for riding & commuting on tarmac. With cassettes adding more and more cogs, a 2x can achieve similar gears to an older 3x drive.
My mountain bike is an older 3x8. When riding on the trail I typically use the smaller inner chain ring. Very occasionally do I kick up to the middle chain ring. If I had a little more range with a 10 or 11 speed cassette, I wouldn't need anything more than a 1x. This bike is a dedicated trail bike that never sees anything besides single track.
A cyclocross bike is designed for similar use and also doesn't need the additional range that a 2x provides. This is why many current cyclocross bikes are 1x drives.
Finally, a gravel bike is intended for a greater range of use and needs the low end of a mountain bike while also needing the higher end of a hybrid for riding & commuting on tarmac. With cassettes adding more and more cogs, a 2x can achieve similar gears to an older 3x drive.
09-14-18, 02:19 PM
#124
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I thought about going 1x on my MTB then I thought why? The bike functions great as a 3x10 though I rarely use the big ring. I don’t care that it is there or not.
09-14-18, 02:34 PM
#125
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I went 1x on my mtb's because I've found that I get much less chain dropping going on with the narrow wide chainring and a clutch rd. My cyclocross bike is a 46x36 and I love it like that. Much of the time I just change the front derailleur and leave the back wherever, and that seems to be a very good gear jump for most stuff I ride on the cross bike. Gravel bike? hell, I just made that a single speed. lol
