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Di2 Simply Too Much

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Di2 Simply Too Much

Old 11-14-18, 02:26 PM
  #1  
TiHabanero
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Di2 Simply Too Much

Building a frame for myself soon, and am thinking of going with electronic drivetrain. Even at wholesale the cost is simply too high for what it does. Back in the 8 speed days I had Shimano brifters and ended up disliking it and went back to friction. Now I am ready to try electronic shifting as it is quite slick, however the market price is keeping me at bay. Figure in 10 years the cost will come down to the "everyman's" cost and then will pull the trigger. Friction it is on the new frame.
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Old 11-14-18, 02:42 PM
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I hear downtube Di2 is the future of cycling.
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Old 11-14-18, 03:10 PM
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Electronic is also generally very expensive to fix when it breaks.

It sounds like a cool idea...but I'll let the guinney pigs be the test subject. Wait about 10 years...then I'll be ready...and price will have dropped where Walmart carries them on Huffys.

Besides, it unnecessary. It's just too deckadent and luxury.

One thing that bugs me about it: is having to worry about battery charging.
I hated charging battery on my headlight...so much so, that I bought a dynamo hub.
I imagine in the middle of nowhere and the battery of Di2 dies, and you are screwed because there's still alot of hills to climb.

Last edited by mtb_addict; 11-14-18 at 03:19 PM.
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Old 11-14-18, 03:14 PM
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Derailleurs cost too much for what they do
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Old 11-14-18, 03:25 PM
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Oh man! Once you start thinking about value for your money you're doomed to becoming another retro grouch in training.
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Old 11-14-18, 04:00 PM
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A dead Di2 battery isn't a flaw of the shifter, it's a flaw in the engine's control module.

How much is it worth to you to have fast perfect shifting, with zero RD indexing adjustments, and with the ability to dump the entire cassette with a single press of a finger while hard-braking with that hand?
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Old 11-14-18, 04:03 PM
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It's not called the "bleeding edge" for nothing. Besides, how's it ever gonna come down to "everyman's" prices without guys like you?

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Old 11-14-18, 04:16 PM
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I have lots of electronic devices that are fabulous - as long as they work. When they don't work it is very frustrating, there is often no explanation, and a malfunctioning electronic device looks pretty much just like one that works.

When a derailleur doesn't function properly, I can look at it and figure it out. Cable adjustment, bent hanger, too much cable friction, needs cleaning or whatever. I like this, it is the opposite of frustrating for me.

So even though Di2 shifting is wonderful, it's not for me. Occasionally I feel like hurling my computer, iPhone, iPad or DVR out the window. I've never felt that way about one of my bikes, nor do I want to.
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Old 11-14-18, 04:50 PM
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Bah, kids and their new fangled "eelektrawneeks"! Back in the day we didn't have a lot of gears until that guy Tullio ruined it for everybody! I had to stop when he came up with that quick release wheels. It was simply too much!

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Old 11-14-18, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Riveting View Post

How much is it worth to you to have fast perfect shifting, with zero RD indexing adjustments, and with the ability to dump the entire cassette with a single press of a finger while hard-braking with that hand?
Well, since you put it like that. Sold!
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Old 11-14-18, 05:05 PM
  #11  
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How about having an electric shift that is for 8 or 9 speeds? With a triple in front and 12 in the rear you get 36 speeds. That is wildly over kill.

Against all the "real cyclist" rules, I simply look at my triple as granny= up hill, center used the most= on the level, and big ring= down hill or with the wind. I then shift across the rear cluster as needed.
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Old 11-14-18, 06:02 PM
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Having set up Di2 on other people's bikes, it is seriously slick, and a huge step up from indexed shifting. Honestly, I like it. I like Campy electronic, too, but only played with it once. Played with SRAM once, and that was enough. When it becomes more affordable in the 105 version, it will go on one of my bikes. By then I suppose ANT + will be the deal. Brother, I just can't win.
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Old 11-14-18, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by tagaproject6 View Post
Back in the day we didn't have a lot of gears until that guy Tullio ruined it for everybody!
Derailleurs and internal-gear hubs were invented before Tullio was even born, and during his life, his business wasn't really pushing the gear count envelope. That was the realm of tourists and randonneurs and such, which Campagnolo didn't aggressively target.
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Old 11-14-18, 06:27 PM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict View Post
Electronic is also generally very expensive to fix when it breaks.

It sounds like a cool idea...but I'll let the guinney pigs be the test subject. Wait about 10 years...then I'll be ready...and price will have dropped where Walmart carries them on Huffys.

Besides, it unnecessary. It's just too deckadent and luxury.

One thing that bugs me about it: is having to worry about battery charging.
I hated charging battery on my headlight...so much so, that I bought a dynamo hub.
I imagine in the middle of nowhere and the battery of Di2 dies, and you are screwed because there's still alot of hills to climb.
You know this how??? I haven't had any issues with my Di2 that cost anything to fix. Shimano did replace a front derailleur for me free of charge because it was under warranty but aside from that no expensive fixes and so far none I have seen come through the shop.

As far as Di2 battery dying that is going to be a tough thing. It is not a headlight battery and doesn't use that much power that you need to charge it often. I charge mine every few months just to charge it, my boss hasn't charged his in about a year. There have been people who have ridden across the US on one charge. Brian Chapman of Chapman Cycles has built himself two Di2 bikes that are hooked into the dynamo in case you are worried about dead batteries. Also the batteries are quite lightweight so if you were going on a long trek you could easily take a second one and probably about 20 minutes of charging will get you enough to ride for the rest of the day.

One could say all gears and even brakes are unnecessary, in fact all innovation is unnecessary. However that is a dumb statement and should be stricken from the record. Technology can be a great thing and Di2 is certainly a part of that. Getting rid of cables and having a system you can basically set and forget is quite nice. Also having the ability to allow your shifters to do some shifting for you is excellent and the micro adjustments that Di2 makes are unnoticeable but if they weren't there you would notice. Also allowing people with different abilities shift from different positions is excellent. Say you only have one arm, now you have a system to shift without having to go 1x or say you are a regular TT or Triathlete now you can shift from your brake levers as well or you can shift from the tops of your drop bar. It is pretty nice.

Maybe next time avoid the bad knowledge about Di2 until you actually get a bike with Di2 and ride it and learn more about the system. The Wally Mart bike is going to stay perfect for you and your MTB addiction which like all addictions means you avoid it completely and never pursue it at all. I will stick to riding a ton of bikes in a ton of different places and enjoying my bike with Di2 which is so excellent and shifts like a dream because I suck at it.
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Old 11-14-18, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
Having set up Di2 on other people's bikes, it is seriously slick, and a huge step up from indexed shifting.
You're running Di2 without indexing!?
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Old 11-14-18, 07:32 PM
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Luddite here, like to shift for myself.
i cycle for the pleasure of it,
changing gears is part of the pleasure.
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Old 11-14-18, 07:58 PM
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Lets all stop the hyperbole and drama please.

Di2 is $600 to $700 more expensive than a comparable mechanical system. That's actual prices for an R8000 vs R8050 groupset on Ribble today.

Most people spend that much yearly for cable TV.

Everyone is free to choose whether it is worth it to them or not but I don't know where everyone gets the idea that it is decadent or somehow reserved only for the privileged few.


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Old 11-14-18, 08:04 PM
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Ah, another one of these.

Originally Posted by mtb_addict View Post
Electronic is also generally very expensive to fix when it breaks.

It sounds like a cool idea...but I'll let the guinney pigs be the test subject. Wait about 10 years...then I'll be ready...and price will have dropped where Walmart carries them on Huffys.

Besides, it unnecessary. It's just too deckadent and luxury.

One thing that bugs me about it: is having to worry about battery charging.
I hated charging battery on my headlight...so much so, that I bought a dynamo hub.
I imagine in the middle of nowhere and the battery of Di2 dies, and you are screwed because there's still alot of hills to climb.

It has already been 10 years of Di2. Dura-Ace Di2 was first commercially released in 2009....and was in use in the peloton before that (4-5 years for both Campag and Shimano)...and than ignores Suntour BEAST and Mavic Mectronic that now are coming up on 30 years old (granted both were buggy).
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Old 11-14-18, 08:06 PM
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Some people really take these "beef" waaaay too seriously.
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Old 11-14-18, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
Building a frame for myself soon, and am thinking of going with electronic drivetrain. Even at wholesale the cost is simply too high for what it does. Back in the 8 speed days I had Shimano brifters and ended up disliking it and went back to friction. Now I am ready to try electronic shifting as it is quite slick, however the market price is keeping me at bay. Figure in 10 years the cost will come down to the "everyman's" cost and then will pull the trigger. Friction it is on the new frame.
wait wait wait. You were ready to pull the trigger on di2, an electronic shifting system where you hook your bike up to a computer to set up, but will instead build it with friction shifting?
that's a complete opposite end of the spectrum decision.

nope, don't buy it.
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Old 11-14-18, 10:57 PM
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@TimothyH: Well said. I liked the cable bit. People probably also spend that kind of money in coffee every year on average and some people spend way more than that. Someone could probably easily find ways of saving the extra $700 to buy Di2 by changing small habits in their life.


If you wanted to save money on your Di2 bike you could go with a 105 brakes (or say TRP Spyre mechanical discs), cranks, chain and cassette and save a bunch of money right there and if you stick with Ultegra you will save good money with a little weight gain from Dura Ace. Find yourself a reasonably priced frame and other reasonable parts and you won't be spending a ton. You can also find complete bikes for relatively cheap these days. Di2 is just a different and in some ways better way of shifting it is not some gold plated diamond encrusted junk that just looks blingy. We aren't talking about buying 3D printed Ti pulley wheels from CeramicSpeed here which are $1K for admission. Those are actually silly and way extravagant because they probably will only make you a tiny bit faster if that and you could achieve that from much cheaper pulley wheels even from CS.
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Old 11-14-18, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by mtb_addict View Post
Electronic is also generally very expensive to fix when it breaks.

It sounds like a cool idea...but I'll let the guinney pigs be the test subject. Wait about 10 years...then I'll be ready...and price will have dropped where Walmart carries them on Huffys.

Besides, it unnecessary. It's just too deckadent and luxury.

One thing that bugs me about it: is having to worry about battery charging.
I hated charging battery on my headlight...so much so, that I bought a dynamo hub.
I imagine in the middle of nowhere and the battery of Di2 dies, and you are screwed because there's still alot of hills to climb.
I have never had the battery die on my ultegra di2. I plug it in every once in a while when I get around to it, which can either be after a long ride, or after two weeks.
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Old 11-15-18, 04:20 AM
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Every real cyclist knows E-tap is better , shimano is for entry level , every day , toe dipping , wannabees .!
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Old 11-15-18, 04:43 AM
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This ridiculous rant is simply too much.
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Old 11-15-18, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
@TimothyH: Well said. I liked the cable bit. People probably also spend that kind of money in coffee every year on average and some people spend way more than that. Someone could probably easily find ways of saving the extra $700 to buy Di2 by changing small habits in their life.
.
OTOH.. turn the examples around. Would you give up drinking coffee, or watching cable TV in order to upgrade to Di2?

Also, you have to look at how the bike manufacturers actually spec and price bikes in their lineup. Probably a rare find to locate a Di2 bike that is ONLY different because it has Di2. Typically, the first Di2 bike in a lineup will cost a lot more than $700 additional to their bike that doesn't have Di2 (eg. Ultegra Di2 vs Ultegra). Randomly take Trek Emonda SL6 Disc vs. SL7 Disc example, with ~$1300 difference between the 2 models. On top of this, this example which I think is the lowest cost Emonda they sell that offers Di2, is listed at $5100. So while you can get Emonda SL models in the $1900 range, if you want Di2 shifting, your first option is about $3000 additional.
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