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Hikers found 17 days later alive.

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Hikers found 17 days later alive.

Old 05-26-19, 08:54 AM
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Hikers found 17 days later alive.

Incredible!
https://deadspin.com/missing-hiker-f...7-d-1835029038
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Old 05-26-19, 10:48 AM
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These always strike me as "tales of hubris." Nice that she made it out alive, but the plain truth is she never should have been in the situation in the first place.

You want proper amazing, read about Juliane Koepcke or Yossi Ghinsberg.
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Old 05-26-19, 11:39 AM
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Good there was a good outcome. Hawaii seems like a better place to get lost than most.
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Old 05-26-19, 12:52 PM
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It wouldn't be too hard to live off the surroundings in a Hawaiian forest - plenty of fruits and nuts around for food, water is pretty easy to find, too. She was familiar with the trail, but wandered off it farther than she was aware of, which didn't help. Breaking here leg didn't help, either. Nice that she was found in good shape.
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Old 05-26-19, 02:12 PM
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When I hear of miraculous rescues and self rescues and the like, and wonder whether was it real... I stop to ask myself... did this person profit from this... was there gain to be made, if so, how.

Look at that Jussie Smollett situation... What did he gain, what was the possible motivation for his actions. A lot of publicity and public attention, for one thing... for an actor.

In the case of this hiker... let's see what comes to fruition in the days to come. Apparently there was a GoFundMe rescue fund... at least part of which was used by her friends to fund the helicopter that found her.

I'm not saying this was or wasn't a real situation... she broke her tibia... and that is real.
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Old 05-26-19, 03:10 PM
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I’m surprised folks are not able to see this for exactly what if was, a women got lost in the woods. I’m not seeing a situation that this is a made up thing to get a name in the news.

From what I’ve read, she was doing a very short walk, not a hike, thus left behind water and her phone. Then stepped off the trail and was instantly lost. That happens a lot, go read about Geraldine Largay who disappeared on the AT in Maine a few years back, same thing. And in the dense undergrowth of Hawaii, easy to understand. She was likely as surprised as we are to read about it.

She got lucky, was in a situation where her injured leg was about to keep her from a self rescue.
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Old 05-26-19, 03:31 PM
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... the plain truth is she never should have been in the situation in the first place.
Perhaps. Perhaps not.

Back in the day, I used to run serious amounts of distance each week. Only safe spots, away from some very dangerous roads in the region, were up in the hills. Of course, trails have all sorts of risks. Can be 8+ miles from someone else, break an ankle, and be in a very difficult bind. Never did get stuck, myself, and usually was running with a buddy or two.

On trails one knows exceptionally well, it's easy to cope with nearly anything. Except deadly violent attack, perhaps, and breaking bones. So long as one is in a spot that has sufficient water and food, even getting temporarily lost off the trail isn't likely to be catastrophic.

Perhaps she'll write down some of the details, at some point. Might make a useful story for people to reference, when they themselves are the "out in the hills" types who do trail hiking, running or cycling off the beaten path.
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Old 05-26-19, 03:54 PM
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Hmmm...

It sounds like a lot of mistakes were made.

She's awfully lucky!!!

One thing is to know one's terrain well enough that if one loses the trail, one can still find one's way back to civilization.

A few years ago, I was hiking a loop. Some maps indicated the trail took a loop. Some didn't show the trail I intended to come back down on.

Anyway, on my descent, the trail just vanished in a meadow.

But, I knew that all I needed to do was go down and I'd get back to my car.

As dusk arrived, I realized that it was safer to spend the night buried under some leaves than it was to attempt to continue to descend.

So, one night out. The next morning I safely descended back down the mountain (no broken bones).

And, everything became just a memory.
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Old 05-26-19, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Clyde1820 View Post
Perhaps. Perhaps not.

Back in the day, I used to run serious amounts of distance each week. Only safe spots, away from some very dangerous roads in the region, were up in the hills. Of course, trails have all sorts of risks. Can be 8+ miles from someone else, break an ankle, and be in a very difficult bind. Never did get stuck, myself, and usually was running with a buddy or two.

On trails one knows exceptionally well, it's easy to cope with nearly anything. Except deadly violent attack, perhaps, and breaking bones. So long as one is in a spot that has sufficient water and food, even getting temporarily lost off the trail isn't likely to be catastrophic.

Perhaps she'll write down some of the details, at some point. Might make a useful story for people to reference, when they themselves are the "out in the hills" types who do trail hiking, running or cycling off the beaten path.
You're right... used to go off in Baja and the CA high deserts, and as long as nothing happened, no problem... but in Baja for instance, 40-60 miles off road in a vehicle, if you broke down... no telling how long you'd be there. We adopted a policy to never go way off road in a single vehicle... this was after the wife and I DID go off road, and got lost... we managed to find our way back a different way... never did find that original dirt track... But it was enough to make us rethink what we were doing. Off road biking in places in CA can leave you just as isolated. And in a jungle... you cannot see points of reference.

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Old 05-26-19, 05:42 PM
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Maybe it's the old Boy Scout in me but I always try and be prepared.

No matter how mundane or safe a short day hike might seem I always take my day pack with me. It contains, among other things, an emergency whistle, a laser pointer, a flashlight, a multi-tool and a battery charger that can recharge my phone up to 4 times. These are the things I carry in case I need to try and make myself found.
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Old 05-26-19, 05:50 PM
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I tell whoever if back at camp what trail I will be on and ETA if I get sick or hurt I will stay on the trail.
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Old 05-26-19, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
I'm not saying this was or wasn't a real situation... she broke her tibia... and that is real.
When I broke mine (along with my fibula), I was incapable of getting back off the ground, let alone walking anywhere. After surgery that day and 4 months on crutches, I could walk again. It was also the most pain I have ever experienced. This leads me to believe it is extremely unlikely she was faking it.
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Old 05-26-19, 05:59 PM
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Yup, hubris or at least a lack of respect for Gaia, who's a murderous b!tch always looking for a human sacrifice.

And this hiker fell right into the usual trap -- wandering around exhausted and semi-panicky until she fell and was injured. That's how most "disappearances" go in the wild.

People who are too familiar with a familiar route tend to forget how different the same place looks when you turn around or deviate slightly from the path. I experience this often on "familiar" rural highways when I decided to ride it counterclockwise rather than my usual clockwise. Suddenly the familiar seems menacing.

I have no natural sense of direction and have always tended to get off track easily. So whenever I'm out exploring, pre-cell phones I always took a proper orienteering compass, even just for fishing from shorelines of local lakes. I still find it amusing, or maybe bemusing, that my squad finished first in a military nighttime orienteering exercise. But that's not due to my leadership. I was the lone Navy Corpsman on the squad and the Marine SSgt instructor probably thought it would be funny to put a squid in charge of grunts. We finished first because I delegated to competent Marines who knew what the hell they were doing.

I never leave home without my smart phone now, cycling or walking. It's loaded up with orienteering apps and offline maps so I can figure out where I am even without cell service, even if GPS fails. So far, so good. I've been sorta lost a few times exploring new routes, but always found my way back quickly.
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Old 05-26-19, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
I’m surprised folks are not able to see this for exactly what if was, a women got lost in the woods. I’m not seeing a situation that this is a made up thing to get a name in the news.
yeah...falling off a 20 ft cliff into a ravine, breaking her left tibia and tearing the meniscus in her knee and surviving for as long as she did doesn’t sound like someone looking to get her name in the news or even profit off the situation...well, unless you're way too cynical and foolish to think that. fwiw…i always carry an small Iridium satellite phone when solo riding in the desert or hiking which not only gives me communication but also can execute a SAR mission with position info and medical needs.

i also really admire her survival mindset and determination!!!!!
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Old 05-26-19, 06:06 PM
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Ms. Eller had intended to go on a short trail walk, one she had done before. She went off the path at one point to rest, and when she resumed hiking, she got turned around.”

A three mile walk. A three mile walk......

I can’t say that if I were to go for a short walk on a trail I’d been on before, that I would take all the extras that I know I should be taking.
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Old 05-26-19, 08:49 PM
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Somehow humans survived for a very long time without cell phones.

I end up with huge dead spots with cell reception, so carrying the phone doesn't help much when I'm out (also a reason not to rely entirely on cell phone maps).

As far as breaking her leg and tearing her meniscus (not sure if it is the same leg or both legs). She may well have been able to make a splint and crutches. Hopefully she brought McGuyver's pocket knife with her.

But, the leg injury didn't happen until the third day, and she lost her shoes on the fourth day. That was already a long time to be lost.

One thing. In many cases, one can follow the water, and eventually find civilization. Although, working around waterfalls can be problematic. And, brush can slow progress considerably, but perhaps not so bad if one doesn't have a heavy pack.
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Old 05-26-19, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
Yup, hubris or at least a lack of respect for Gaia, who's a murderous b!tch always looking for a human sacrifice.
I don't know how you could interpret acting on a desire to be near nature as a lack of respect for nature? Really don't understand how anybody could set going for a walk as hubris, either. Can you expand on this?
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Old 05-26-19, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by TakingMyTime View Post
Maybe it's the old Boy Scout in me but I always try and be prepared.

No matter how mundane or safe a short day hike might seem I always take my day pack with me. It contains, among other things, an emergency whistle, a laser pointer, a flashlight, a multi-tool and a battery charger that can recharge my phone up to 4 times. These are the things I carry in case I need to try and make myself found.
I carry a beacon. It was $300, it's 4 or 5 ounces, it only has 1 function. The battery is guaranteed for 5 years, to be able to perform its job for 48 hours.

You point the antenna at the sky, press the button, and wait for your rescuers to arrive. The device sends an SOS over the SARSAT constellation. It also broadcasts to planes flying in the area, and a homing signal for rescue workers on foot.
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Old 05-26-19, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
Somehow humans survived for a very long time without cell phones.

I end up with huge dead spots with cell reception, so carrying the phone doesn't help much when I'm out (also a reason not to rely entirely on cell phone maps).
People sometimes get lucky without tools. Still not a good practice. For millennia people have used whatever technology was available for navigation, from sun and stars to sextants and compasses. There's no reason not to use whatever tech is available in any era or culture.

Smartphones don't need cell access or even GPS to be useful.

Offline maps can be stored, no cell or data plan needed.

Many phones include orienteering devices that don't depend on cell access or GPS. Offline maps can access those orienteering tools.

There are beacon apps that can signal continuously without user intervention, using relatively little power if the phone isn't accessed too often.

And there are readily available emergency beacons with multiple modes -- satellite to visible light.

The phone camera can be used to record unfamiliar routes to have visual reference for backtracking. Too many people who go off the main path forget to stop every few steps, look around and note landmarks or leave a breadcrumb trail back to the main path.

Even when walking way off the main trail in familiar places in the Cleveland National Forest, mountain and desert regions in Southern California, during the 1970s-'80s, I'd repeat visual landmark cue orientation because things change with the seasons. Same here in Texas where I've lived much of my life. The familiar can seem foreign in only a few weeks or months, especially when there's a lot of rain after a long drought. During a drought, chaparral and prairie can remain the same for months or years, then change drastically in only a few weeks with rainfall.

Carry that smartphone. Before wandering off the trail to take a pee, open the map and note your starting position. Snap pix along the way. Leave breadcrumbs. There are plenty of sticks, rocks, anything you need to mark your return route.

And don't climb up stuff to get a better view after that panicky mode sets in. Don't wander around after dark. That's often what gets even experienced hikers.
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Old 05-26-19, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
People sometimes get lucky without tools. Still not a good practice. For millennia people have used whatever technology was available for navigation, from sun and stars to sextants and compasses. There's no reason not to use whatever tech is available in any era or culture.
That's for sure not true.

If that was true, we'd all have a Garmin InReach SEND for safety. But there's a good reason not to, it's expensive and heavy and unnecessary for most hikers.

There's a good reason not to carry a tent and sleeping bags on most hikes when you won't need them. Weight. The more safety gear you carry in this context, the note likely you are to need it
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Old 05-26-19, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
That's for sure not true.

If that was true, we'd all have a Garmin InReach SEND for safety. But there's a good reason not to, it's expensive and heavy and unnecessary for most hikers.

There's a good reason not to carry a tent and sleeping bags on most hikes when you won't need them. Weight. The more safety gear you carry in this context, the note likely you are to need it
Not even close to what I suggested. Or logical.

For years I've carry space blankets in my cars and bike seat bags -- those metallized film Mylar sheets. They fold flat, weigh next to nothing, and can serve to keep me or someone else warm in winter, sheltered from summer sun, and as a highly visible reflective flag. I don't go looking for risky adventures just because I have those things. That's the sort of specious connection used by some study that concluded cyclists who wear helmets take more risks, rather than the more likely scenario -- cyclists who take more risks are more likely to choose to wear helmets, because they're taking more responsibility for their choices.

But living around hurricane prone coastal areas I've seen some dumb stuff, mostly people who buy up emergency supplies and food from Walmart, then return it as soon as the hurricane scare passes.

An orienteering compass costs $10 or less, fits in a pocket and weighs next to nothing. A smartphone is the single best all purpose device invented so far, fits in a pocket, and is incredibly cheap considering what it can do for informed users.

Expense? Take a look at the bills for rescue services and emergency medical care. Sometimes people are billed for what it costs to rescue them. In reality the costs are often shrugged off with taxpayers eventually footing the bills. Professional services, from law enforcement to rescue services to medical services all eventually get paid one way or another, usually with higher taxes and fees distributed among taxpayers and risk pools.

Anyone who considers himself or herself independent enough to hike, walk or jog through areas where they might become lost or injured should also consider being responsible enough to carry the necessary gear and information needed to extricate themselves from self-created messes.
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Old 05-27-19, 07:05 AM
  #22  
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Yes, well no everybody’s perfect.

Theres all kinds of level of stupid. The Hawaii hiker wasn’t all that stupid, more unlucky.

There was report from upstate NY in the Adirondacks

”Town of Wilmington
Wilderness Rescue: On May 19 at 4:19 pm, Essex County 911 transferred a call to DEC’s Ray Brook Dispatch reporting two hikers requesting assistance. The hikers had parked at Connery Pond and walked to Lake Placid. While at Lake Placid, they spoke with an unknown individual about hiking to the summit of Whiteface, which they were told would take about 45 minutes. After climbing through the ice and snow to the summit for several hours, the couple called for a taxi to return to their vehicle, which was six miles away. They were informed the Whiteface Mountain toll road was closed. Forest Ranger Robert Praczkajlo picked up the hikers at the Whiteface summit and gave them a courtesy transport back to their vehicle by 5:50 pm.”
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Old 05-27-19, 07:41 AM
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bleep happens and your mind/hubris prevents you from going back to a known spot many times. experience can occasionally hinder. no one wants to ever admit they
made a mistake, whether with others or solo. it's one thing to be at/above timberline or in the desert and with the capacity to see 3-100 miles. it's quite another thing to be in a densely
forested situation where you can't see farther than 60 yards.

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Old 05-27-19, 07:53 AM
  #24  
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Why tempt fate?

Be prepared for the unexpected. You don't have to be carrying a full pack of emergency equipment with you, but even a fanny-pack with a phone in it is better than nothing.

This is the same reason I carry a water bottle with me all the time while riding. Even on my short 12 mile loop ride. I really don't need it, but if I get a flat and have to sit on the side of the road for 15 minutes changing a tire I know I'm going to be pissed and a little drink of water is probably going to feel pretty good.
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Old 05-27-19, 10:35 AM
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"Ms. Eller had intended to go on a short trail walk, one she had done before. She went off the path at one point to rest, and when she resumed hiking, she got turned around."
On runs and hikes, I'd always found the best spots for a rest were within view of the trail. Never did want to get off it, turned around, then find myself out of sight of it.

A lot of good lessons from her little jaunt. Hopefully she'll think through all of them, then find a way to continue her outdoor lifestyle. It needn't be the end of her hikes, travels.
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