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Death of VC thread

Old 04-22-20, 08:57 AM
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pcook489
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Death of VC thread

No new posts in over 7 months. Long live the King....the King is dead.
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Old 04-23-20, 05:54 AM
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RIP John

Originally Posted by pcook489 View Post
No new posts in over 7 months. Long live the King....the King is dead.
Yes, the Party will brook no disagreement or criticism:



Newly built road with bike lane.

Barely safe position in bike lane.
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Old 05-05-20, 10:23 AM
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So your idea is to ride in a designated bike lane. Not a Forester way of thinking. Take the lane/control the lane/act like any other vehicle. I appreciate that.
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Old 05-13-20, 10:14 AM
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All the posters here are dead or banned. LOL
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Old 05-14-20, 06:52 AM
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Well, if you have a theory that no one will use bike infrastructure if you build it, and then when they build it the number one complaint people have about bike infrastructure is it's too crowded, it gets a bit hard to keep up the debate.
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Old 05-16-20, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by flangehead View Post
Yes, the Party will brook no disagreement or criticism:



Newly built road with bike lane.

Barely safe position in bike lane.
Now, if the car door had been opened then people would see precisely why a door zone bicycle lane like that is so dangerous. For those who don't know, it's because an opening car door can hit your handlebar or bike or you and deflect you down and into traffic to your left. I refuse to ride in any door zone bicycle lane if there are parked vehicles next to it.

Cheers
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Old 05-16-20, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
Now, if the car door had been opened then people would see precisely why a door zone bicycle lane like that is so dangerous. For those who don't know, it's because an opening car door can hit your handlebar or bike or you and deflect you down and into traffic to your left. I refuse to ride in any door zone bicycle lane if there are parked vehicles next to it.

Cheers
FWIW, if it’s too dangerous to ride in that bike lane, why is it safe to stand in it taking a picture of your shadow?

-mr. bill
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Old 05-16-20, 06:57 PM
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Because the camera man standing in place is extremely unlikely to run into an opening door.
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Old 05-16-20, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
Because the camera man standing in place is extremely unlikely to run into an opening door.
The “camera man” staged a bicycle placed in the door zone, and then staged a bicycle not in the door zone.

NOTE, “cyclists fair best when they act as the driver of vehicles.”

Standing in the road is acting as the driver of vehicles?

Why didn’t the “camera man” take the lane?

SMH, so much drama for so little drama.

-mr. bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 05-16-20 at 08:40 PM.
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Old 05-16-20, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
FWIW, if it’s too dangerous to ride in that bike lane, why is it safe to stand in it taking a picture of your shadow? -mr. bill
I have it on good authority that the camera man had a helment-mount mirror during the photo session to mitigate (but not completely eliminate) the risk of being run down by a cyclist on a Sunday afternoon.

Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
NOTE, “cyclists fair best when they act as the driver of vehicles.” -mr. bill
I ran across something that gives me pause about this phrase.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stupid_Motorist_Law

Yeah, not so sure cyclists should act as the drivers of motor vehicles...

Maybe JF had it backwards, considering the 30k annual death toll? Maybe "motorists fare best when they proceed with the caution of a cyclist"?
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Old 05-16-20, 09:18 PM
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I'm not sure why you quoted my concise answer to your question... nothing in your follow up had anything to do with it.

Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
Why didn’t the “camera man” take the lane?
Because he wasn't a cyclist. It may have even been illegal if he did.
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Old 05-17-20, 12:42 AM
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Two-door cars parked next to a painted door zone bicycle lane like that are even more dangerous than the car shown in those images. That's because most doors on two-door cars are much longer and thus would project even further into the bicycle lane.

This video shows the distance needed with a four-doorr car.


This video is apparently with a two-door car.


Look at how far away you need to be to be safe from a suddenly opened door.

Cheers
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Old 05-17-20, 07:27 AM
  #13  
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Death of VC thread
Originally Posted by pcook489 View Post
No new posts in over 7 months. Long live the King....the King is dead.
Originally Posted by flangehead View Post
Yes, the Party will brook no disagreement or criticism:
Originally Posted by GamblerGORD53 View Post
All the posters here are dead or banned. LOL
Originally Posted by pcook489 View Post
So your idea is to ride in a designated bike lane. Not a Forester way of thinking. Take the lane/control the lane/act like any other vehicle. I appreciate that.
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Well, if you have a theory that no one will use bike infrastructure if you build it, and then when they build it the number one complaint people have about bike infrastructure is it's too crowded, it gets a bit hard to keep up the debate.
As you may be aware @livedarklions, users of the Minuteman Bikeway in Arlington, MA have reported a great increase in riders as well as diminished road auto traffic, prompting many cyclists to become "vehicles.

I have posted to this thread,
So what's your beef with Multi-Use Pathes?”
Originally Posted by drlogik View Post
There was a time not all that long ago when there were no bike paths, bike lanes or dedicated "exercise paths". We have it good now, really good. I've been riding on the road since 1974. We should grateful for what we have now. Instead of complaining, form a volunteer Pathway Coalition in your area made up of riders, walkers, joggers, etc and find common ground.

Yes, it's a hassle riding on multi-use paths but that is what they are. Everyone has to get along on the same path...
Originally Posted by speyfitter View Post
Yeah we should be grateful for being 40+ years behind Europe in bike infrastructure in North America due to a guy who thought vehicular cycling was the way to go over separated cycling infrastructure.
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
I’m not sure who that nefarious guy is (? John Forester) but I think cycling infrastructure is possibly correlated with the age of the city prior to introduction of the automobile, so much longer in compact, recently war-ravaged European cities; and even longer in older, denser US East Coast cities with better cycling infrastructure (link), than the sprawling Midwest and West.

In any case I have previously posted:
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
“I don't think I like physically separated bike lanes.”

As a decades-long urban commuter and road cyclist, on a societal policy basis, I was impressed by this opinion by @B. Carfree
Originally Posted by B. Carfree View Post
…Some people, mostly people who are relatively new to cycling, think we should use the few dollars that can go towards improving conditions for cycling by building a few miles of separated infrastructure and place it mostly on urban roads (with the inevitable intersection failures).

Other, more experienced riders, think we would be better served by funding traffic law enforcement and putting in many more miles of proper, six to eight foot bike lanes (not in the door zone) and only putting in separate facilities where there are long stretches of high-speed road without appreciable numbers of intersections.

This difference of opinion wouldn't be such a big deal, but many of the segregationists have been making their public case by convincing everyone that cycling is too dangerous to be done anywhere except on a segregated facility.

Not surprisingly, this has an impact in terms of how many people are willing to even try riding a bike since there is no way to get anywhere in the US without riding on a road.

Oddly enough, these people are called and consider themselves "bicycling advocates". If one were to design a fifth-column assault to keep cycling participation down, it would look just like the pro-separation folks.
Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
I hate the idea of walled-off lanes, myself ... I don't want to be penned in with a bunch of cyclists ... worst group of people ....
↓↓↓↓

Last edited by Jim from Boston; 05-17-20 at 07:49 AM.
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Old 05-17-20, 07:33 AM
  #14  
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ɅɅɅɅ
Originally Posted by speyfitter View Post
the take rate of cycling as a mode share for transportation has been done a significant disservice by the concept of vehicular cycling,.

i don’t need to develop this statement any further as the proof is in the pudding,.
Originally Posted by flangehead View Post
yes, the party will brook no disagreement or criticism
Originally Posted by jim from boston View Post
"so what's your beef with multi-use pathes?"

...i posted earlier on this thread ”getting somewhere” is the essence of a vehicle, be it pleasure, touring. Utility, commuting etc (by bike) yet “vehicular cycling” on a road is derided in comparison to separated bike infrastructure.i think of vehicular cycling in a technical sense as lane positioning on the road..."take the lane." but as @b. Carfree also commented: :
Originally Posted by b. Carfree View Post
some people, mostly people who are relatively new to cycling, think we should use the few dollars that can go towards improving conditions for cycling by building a few miles of separated infrastructure and place it mostly on urban roads (with the inevitable intersection failures and slower user mishaps (link).
historically, back in the 19th century when cycling was a new, innovative mode of transportation, advocates like the league of american wheelman were powerful enough to agitate for better roads, as multi-use pathes, with the horses and pedestrians. Then the automobile came along and new advocates could further agitate for even more and better roads, and cars became the predominant and overwhelmingly powerful users.

So now in these days i think it is unlikely that cyclists’ desire for an extensive segregated (and likely costly) bike system that serves many destinations will ever be fulfilled, unless:
Originally Posted by jim from boston View Post
"the breakdown of nations"

...this variation of "small is beautiful" sounds like the feudal system of the middle ages, that arose during the dark ages after the fall of the big, bad roman empire...maybe a post-apocalyptic "mad max" scenario.
PS: Pardon the lack of capitalization in the quotes, I couldn'i even edit them in..."BF just being BF."

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Old 05-17-20, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
Two-door cars parked next to a painted door zone bicycle lane like that are even more dangerous than the car shown in those images. That's because most doors on two-door cars are much longer and thus would project even further into the bicycle lane.

This video shows the distance needed with a four-doorr car.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPA-ZcYGT94&t=66s

This video is apparently with a two-door car.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlOnnDvr9Uw

Look at how far away you need to be to be safe from a suddenly opened door.

Cheers
So here's the thing... they were not showing this on a street with typical tire tracks... So it becomes a bit difficult to verify this in their video format...

But they ARE talking about maintaining a 12-13 foot distance from parked cars... Where does that put you in a typical travel lane that doesn't have a bike lane? Right about in the grease stripe.

If I am on a road that does not have a bike lane, yet still has cars parked along the side... I tend to ride in the right tire track. That right tire track is often suggested as a "good" place to ride... yet here we see that is not the case. And yes, if a driver throws open a car door on a street like I have described, that door will be taken off by a passing car.

So, do we ride instead in the left tire track? Well, that is often seen as a signal that we intend to move more to the left.

I have no solution... I just offer these comments as a taste of the reality of the roads today.
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Old 05-17-20, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
So here's the thing... they were not showing this on a street with typical tire tracks... So it becomes a bit difficult to verify this in their video format...

But they ARE talking about maintaining a 12-13 foot distance from parked cars... Where does that put you in a typical travel lane that doesn't have a bike lane? Right about in the grease stripe.

If I am on a road that does not have a bike lane, yet still has cars parked along the side... I tend to ride in the right tire track. That right tire track is often suggested as a "good" place to ride... yet here we see that is not the case. And yes, if a driver throws open a car door on a street like I have described, that door will be taken off by a passing car.

So, do we ride instead in the left tire track? Well, that is often seen as a signal that we intend to move more to the left.

I have no solution... I just offer these comments as a taste of the reality of the roads today.
I posted the links to those two videos primarily to show how dangerous a door zone bicycle lane is. When I'm riding in traffic I simply make sure that I'm NOT riding ina door zone. I figure that I just need to be outside the area/arc that a suddenly opened door would occupy. I've never bothered to stop and measure that distance but I doubt it's 12 - 13 feet.

Cheers
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Old 05-17-20, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
I posted the links to those two videos primarily to show how dangerous a door zone bicycle lane is. When I'm riding in traffic I simply make sure that I'm NOT riding ina door zone. I figure that I just need to be outside the area/arc that a suddenly opened door would occupy. I've never bothered to stop and measure that distance but I doubt it's 12 - 13 feet.

Cheers
As I mentioned... right car tire track... Yet you know that a passing car will take off an open door... And in the video, they are talking 12 feet to be safe and not swerve.
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Old 05-17-20, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
....
Look at how far away you need to be to be safe from a suddenly opened door.

Cheers
Slightly funky bass line.

Mr. 14 Feet from the curb is why VC died.

Believe it or not, that wasn’t enough for many militant VCers, who upped the ante to 17 feet.

When the horse you rode in on is dead....

-mr. bill
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Old 05-18-20, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
I posted the links to those two videos primarily to show how dangerous a door zone bicycle lane is. When I'm riding in traffic I simply make sure that I'm NOT riding ina door zone.

I figure that I just need to be outside the area/arc that a suddenly opened door would occupy. I've never bothered to stop and measure that distance but I doubt it's 12 - 13 feet.

Cheers
I previously posted to this thread,"As a Bike Commuter - What kind of video content would you want to see?":
Originally Posted by Bicycle2Work View Post
Hi Everyone!

I'm a long-time bike commuter who has started a YouTube channel that's about bike commuting. I'm going to initially be making videos for newbies and beginners who are thinking about bike commuting. Content such as

  • what type of bike do I need for bike commuting?
  • is bike commuting safe?
X Tips for Cleaning Up after Biking to Work

But for you long time commuters...is there any content that you would be genuinely interested in watching that is related to bike commuting? Maybe short interviews of bike commuters and their experience?

Looking for help and suggestions! Thanks
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
@Paul Barnard asked this question, “Has A&S Changed Your Behavior?” So in answer to what I think would be sobering yet important messages to commuters would be videos of dangerous situations such as...:
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
I frequently post this basic rule for me, ”Consider every stopped car like a weapon, loaded, with an occupant ready to exit, on either side." For example I think about that when filtering between cars stopped at a traffic light.

When I have had doors opened directly before me, I have found a scream causes the person to immediately retract back into the car like a turtle into its shell.

For a real vicarious thrill of dooring, see this video
https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...318-34zr2.html
˅˅˅˅

Last edited by Jim from Boston; 05-18-20 at 07:54 AM.
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Old 05-18-20, 07:35 AM
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I have previously posted to this thread:
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
"Cheering on New Bike Lanes...".

There is a current thread on the A&S forum, I almost got doored - yet most drivers blame me. How do we improve car culture?,” with a big brouhaha about riding along parked cars… do or don’t; be watchful, or install new technology in cars.

I was mindful of that thread when two days ago I rode my bike from downtown Boston South Station (Railroad), about five miles out to the Brighton neighborhood. The first quarter mile is through a dense commercial maze with heavy auto and pedestrian traffic, then less than a quarter mile on car-free Boston Common.

Next was about a mile on one-way Beacon Street with parked cars on both sides. That used to be a hazardous ride IMO until a while back this bike lane was installed, safe from traffic, but still beset with more predictable hazards of intersections, pedestrians, salmoning cyclists, but with a buffer zone from opening passenger side doors.





Then a short segment through Kenmore Square to Commonwealth Avenue (“Comm Ave”), with a prominent presence of Boston University with a heavy cycling population, as well as a commercial thoroughfare. It is in the vicinity of a few cycling fatalities in the recent years.

Much to my delight I found this new, beautiful separate bike lane with a similar one on the opposite side.



The last mile of my trip was on a typical bike lane I thought was wide enough to comfortably accommodate riding on the left side to avoid sudden door openings.



Later on my return trip, cycling traffic was heavier, and the faster cyclists did use the auto travel lane, but traffic is calmed by fairly closely spaced traffic signals.
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
Earlier this year,
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
Just this morning (3/8/19) on the 6-7 AM segment of the Jeff Kuhner talk show on WRKO, he discussed proposals by mayor Marty Walsh to decrease the speed limit in Boston to 20 mph, and increase the number of bus and bike lanes
So I was pleased with this progress to make cycling safer in Boston, especially since I have previously posted:


Last edited by Jim from Boston; 05-18-20 at 07:43 AM.
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Old 05-18-20, 09:47 AM
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Tl;dr
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Old 05-18-20, 09:53 AM
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Haha, thanks for the modified Hot Rod Lincoln video, Jim from Boston .
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Old 05-18-20, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
Haha, thanks for the modified Hot Rod Lincoln video, Jim from Boston .
I'm impressed by the motorist at 1:52. He didn't quite plant the landing so not a 10, but he ought to get a pretty good score.
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Old 05-18-20, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by flangehead View Post
I'm impressed by the motorist at 1:52. He didn't quite plant the landing so not a 10, but he ought to get a pretty good score.
Agreed! Plus he earned the highly sought after Lucky Duck Award.
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Old 05-18-20, 01:59 PM
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Here's a video that shows how far away from a car you can be and still NOT be safe from a suddenly opened car door.


This one shows what can happen if you get deflected into the traffic lane by an opening car door.


guy was lucky there were no vehicles in the lane he was knocked into.


I could post more but I'm sure you get the idea by now.

DON'T RIDE IN A DOOR ZONE! especially if there are stopped vehicles in it. Whether it's a bicycle lane or not, door zones are extremely hazardous to bicyclists.

Cheers
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