eduskator

I am curious to know what kind of range you've been getting out of your 12 speed DI2 groupsets and if you ride flat or mountain terrains.

I ride mainly in mountains (my average 50km / 30mi ride has over 800m / 2500ft of total elevation) so there's lots of shifting. My previous DI2 battery (11 speed Ultegra groupset) lasted 2000kms /1250mi in average in these conditions which is twice as much as my current one (12 speed Ultegra) that lasted less than 800kms / 500mi.

I've heard the range drop between the 11sp and 12sp is mainly due to the wireless shifters, but I am not sure when does the battery consumption increases though (could be while the system is sleeping if the shifters are occasionally ''pinging'' the derailleurs or it could be during the ride when they are constantly communicating.

In short:

11sp Ultegra : 2000km / 1250mi in average
12sp Ultegra : 800km / 500mi in average

Have you been getting similar numbers?

bbbean 

I've only run my battery all the way down 3 times in the past 10 years, once when my 12 spd was leaning against another bike in the jeep on the way to a race (glad I brought a backup bike!). So its hard to say. I do typically charge within a few rides of getting a 50% indicator or before a race (once every few weeks during the season). It does seem like 12 spd may discharge slightly faster than 11 spd, but charging once every few weeks and having the option to go months when I'm not racing makes the difference moot for my purposes.I do know I am getting considerably more than the 1250/500 mile charges you cite. I'd guess I get 2-4 times that if I ran it down to 20% or less. I ride and train about 50% on the flat, and 50% on short punchy hills in the MidWest and Mid-South.

eduskator

Interesting! In 15 000kms, I had never run my 11sp DI2 battery all the way down neither since my routine has always been to charge it once per month. With my new bike, it looks like I'll need to charge it every 2 weeks now. I don't mind, but I find that the range difference between my former bike and my current bike is just huge.

Shimano advertises the battery range to be 1000kms (620mi) so 800kms (500mi) seems reasonable when riding in mountains and shifting a lot.

bbbean 

If this is your off season, I'd run it down to zero once, just to be sure I knew how far I could push it.I think Shimano's published range is playing it conservative.

lasauge 

Yes. I've found that I need to recharge a 12sp system about every 1.5 months, while with 11sp I can go 3+ months. I don't track my usage very closely, but the older system clearly has battery life 2-3 times longer. I asked about this on Shimano's forum for dealers and got the same sorts of responses there, and also the suggestion that, if you really wanted to, you could run use 12sp in a wired configuration (need Ultegra/DA shifters for that) then battery consumption should be the same as 11 was.

eduskator

Yeah, I see no plus value into doing that aside from being able to update the shifters' firmware more easily (it's a real PITA for 12 speed groupsets...). I'm just surprised to see how much of a difference wireless makes in terms of energy consumption. I'll charge it more often now, regardless of the battery's SoC.

The good thing is that it still has better range than SRAM's batteries; I was getting no more than 500km / 300mi out of my rear derailleur's one.

Paradox77

Man speaking of firmwares, I just almost botched mine this weekend when I tried to update it via E-tube and it failed midway through. I was panicking!!

eduskator

It's a known issue with Shimano. Not sure why they don't invest a little to resolve this once and for all. In fact, I find it annoying that you need to hardwire your levers in order to update them when the RD and FD can be updated wirelessly.

The charger is a known issue too (current must be 1A DC or higher otherwise it can become very hot and even burn or something). People charging their DI2 with laptops can experience this.

Paradox77

Oh? Do we still need to hardwire the levers to update them with the "latest" versions? When you say hardwire, you mean connect it to a sm-pce02 right?

eduskator

Yep! They can't be updated wirelessly for some reason. You must either plug them using the front derailleur wire or buy the unit you're referring and connect it to your PC (still no version for Mac).

It's a big hassle for 12sp DI2 owners if you ask my opinion.

TakingMyTime

My Canyon is rather new and other than the initial charging of the battery I've only topped it off once and that was after about 750 miles and I'd say it was still about 2/3rds charged at that time.

TerryDi2C

I have hardly ridden my bike the past couple of months (kids, work, etc...), but here is some info on my 12s Ultegra battery usage
(year-month-day)

Kai Winters

I've been running the 105 Di2 12 speed system since late winter and I get roughly 2 months of use, 200-240 miles per week of varied terrain, and use about half the batteries charge. I plug it in when the display shows two bars, of four, remaining.
It's been consistent and I've charged the battery maybe 3 or 4 times since first use.

eduskator

What kind of terrain you're both riding? It's hard to compare range without this information.

Kai Winters

When I said "varied terrain" in the reply you posted as a quote covered it. Rolling hills, some moderate climbs, false flats and flat...lots of wind off Lake Ontario and the St Lawrence River which are both down the road from me. Guess that covers it...or at least as much as I care to post as I'm quite lazy in general...

mschwett 

i shift a lot. typical rides around 50-80’ per mile, rolling or a couple medium ish climbs per ride. main di2 (12 speed dura ace) battery life is around 1,000 miles.

eduskator

It's 1000km according to Shimano, not 1000mi. There's a big difference

mschwett 

i was reporting my battery life. i assume it varies by conditions.

ppg677

My 12sp 105 Di2 battery (only a few months old) conked out mid-ride after only about 500 miles.

frdfandc

This is one reason I prefer SRAM over Shimano. At least with SRAM, if you're out and the rear derailleur battery runs out of juice, you can swap over the battery from the FD to the RD and still finish your ride. Shimano, once the battery is dead, well 12 sp Di2 riders knows what happens. Either ride it home in the gear it's stuck in or call for a ride. Also with SRAM, every thing is updated wirelessly via the app and you don't have to need additional equipment to do the updates on the shifters. I'll happily take a shorter battery life. I hope it's safe to assume that mostly everyone here has to charge their phone every night. So charging 2 batteries every few weeks or more isn't an issue with me.

bbbean 

To be fair, given the number of riders using Di2 over the past decade or two, the number of rides, and the number of miles, this is exceedingly rare, and there are indicator lights and pairing with bike computer that you can check to see battery level. While there are certainly reasons to prefer one brand over another, they are both reliable enough that dead battery problems may be assumed to be outliers or user error.

frdfandc

I agree that most battery issues are user error, and actual battery problems occur sometimes. But I feel SRAM gives riders the better opportunity to mitigate those user errors. I'm not saying Di2 is a bad product, it's a pretty reliable system. But when the biggest component manufacturer still uses a wired battery, when the technology is there to produce a very reliable 100% wireless system, makes me think that Shimano doesn't have the confidence to actually produce a completely wireless system. I feel SRAM makes the superior product, where wireless can be simply used used on any bike, without having to take extra steps of figuring out how long wires need to be when initially setting up the drivetrain on a new build.

Have you ever built a bike up with Di2 or AXS? I habe built a few over the years, and I can attest that the simplicity of AXS shines head over heals Di2.

I guess we'll eventually see if Shimano embraces a fully wireless system or not in the future. I hope they eventually do, because that's where the market is currently trending to.

Atlas Shrugged

I am very confused on why people stress the ease of installation of SRAM when am extreme majority of people purchase bikes assembled by a manufacturer or bike shop and when assembled it remains that way for decades. Shimano dominates the market and this is for a reason they make an excellent user friendly product which outperforms the competition.

frdfandc

Shimano dominates the market due to entry level components. If SRAM brought out a component series similar to CUES, the market share would decrease for Shimano. Yes, while Shimano does produce an excellent overall user friendly product, doesn't mean that it doesn't have it's shortcomings. Which I feel any system with wires has.

Ever tried to fish a Di2 wire through a frame? It's a total PITA, there are numerous wire lengths that you have to figure out to get the correct fit, and you still need additional hardware to update the shifters properly. They must be plugged into a laptop or PC, where SRAM does everything on a app and changes can be made on the fly if you chose to do so. While most people do buy complete bikes with Shimano Di2 and will always take their bikes to the shop for issues, doesn't mean that it's easy to work on.

IME, SRAM has a better user friendly product than Shimano.

Atlas Shrugged

Shimano still outsells SRAM even in the top tier by orders of magnitude. My bike was able to communicate without issue so not sure what that is about and again most people take their bike to shops and get updates there.

lastly it really doesn’t look that stressful actually quite relaxing.