razorjack

My front (Roval CLX32) bearings are a bit gritty and you can feel they rotate quite slow (in hand).
I want to change them, and... question, to what?
(ceramic bearings for 50-100eur/pcs are out of question )

• Some ppl say that Enduro bearings are 'just average', (Enduro Abec 5 61802 LLB -13.5eur)
• so maybe SKF (SKF 61802-2RS1 26eur)

or

• NTN then (~16eur for 6(1)802)?
• Have you heard about Cema ceramic bearings? (these are for about 22eur)
• DT Swiss 6802 ESB/ESNB L - ~10-15eur (I don't know who makes them)
• ISB ?

Can you recommend? any experience?
In my FS frames I used Enduro (max) always, but after reading that many ppl consider them just (above) average? I'll think more...

FBinNY 

Just about ANY commercial grade sealed bearing is more than adequate for your needs. Though they aren't as common, single sealed bearings have a (very) slight benefit of lower seal drag, and you don't need an inner seal anyway. But that's not to fret over either way. Commercial bearings are typically rated for 10,000+ hours of continuous duty in 3,600rpm electric motors, and are more than adequate to your needs. If you have concerns over rumors of poor quality for Enduro, consider skf or Fafnir, or any others.

In any case, I don't believe it's possible to wear out any of these on a bike UNLESS they're compromised by dirt or water. So seal quality and condition, and riding conditions become the major factors in service life.

razorjack

somehow... all bearings on bikes fail, in suspension sometimes even just after few months (if you live in wet place), and seals (LLU - full contant) are not able to stop all the moisture.
However, these are for my road bike and currently I live in a dry area (it rains once per 1-2 months I can ride my MTB at that time )
ok, too much thinking, I'll just get the once it's easiest to get (just not enduro this time)

FBinNY 

FWIW- While we in the bike world like to believe differently, the seals on commercial bearings are NOT WEATHER SEALS. These bearings are designed for things like electric motors, or other industrial applications and the seals are dust, not water seals. In applications where weather or water resistance is needed, that's provided outside of the bearing, rather than relying on the bearing's seals.

This is why exposed "sealed" bearings don't hold up on bikes, especially mtn bikes. IME-they actually do a better job keeping water in than out.
So, do the best you can, and expect a sub-optimal service life.

razorjack

I know that, it was just an answer to your statement "I don't believe it's possible to wear out any of these on a bike...."
yep, I ride my bikes only outside, I don't use home rollers.


still one question:
Have you heard about Cema ceramic bearings? (these are for about 22eur)

Iride01 

Are you sure they are worn out. Or do they just have grit and sand in them.

Geepig

The problem is that when you get grit or sand in the bearings then removing those particles becomes problematic, whether or not they have caused any appreciable wear. The cages are quite good at catching the grit or sand, but then removing anything caught there is difficult, and once you can hear it it in there, then there is too much for the cages to carry.

cpach

Any reasonably name brand bearing will be fine, but probably the best are bearing brands like NTN, SKF, NSK, ***, etc, many of which are manufactured in Japan. Ceramic mostly does not outperform high end steel bearings in this application except for extremely minor weight differences. DT bearings are pretty nice, I think the better ones are

Enduro makes/resells a LOT of products. They have such a presence in the bike industry both because they market to the bike industry and because they do design a number of products/bearings uniquely to the bike industry. Enduro MAX bearings for example are uniquely designed for suspension pivots, for example. For hub bearings probably the above recommendations are better, though in practice Enduro's bearings work perfectly well, especially their better stainless bearings.

If you ride in wet/gritty conditions decent, inexpensive bearings and replacing them more frequently will net you better performance than high end bearings run until they begin failing, though it's obviously annoying to have to do with excessive regularity.

pdlamb

I've been thinking I might want to open a restaurant named, "I Don't Know." Figure that half the time someone's going out to eat, they start by asking someone else, "Where do you want to go?" followed by "I don't know." I'll make a killing.

Is "***" a similarly named bearing company?

razorjack

interesingly, after removal those bearings didn't have gritty effect, they were smooth,
New mounted without a hassle.

FBinNY 

It might have been a problem caused by axial preload.

Bike people are constantly reminded about preload, which is fitting for classic cup/cone bearings. However the cartridge bearings typically used cannot tolerate any preload. They are usually deep groove radial bearings with correct preload built in. Axial preload f forces the balls against the sides of the races causing destructive wear.

If the hubs have any adjustability, via shims or otherwise, take up excess play, leaving a trace, but do not preload.

Crankycrank

Just have to add that for those wondering, the *** bearings referred to every so often are F A G (Fischer's Automatische Gussstahlkugelfabrik) and are German and one of the highest quality bearings available. No explanation needed why this is censored and rarely spelled out. Just Sayin'.

FBinNY 

Don't you love the auto-censor?

Think about the plight of folks who sell wood kindling.

Duragrouch

I know exactly why that got filtered, a quite well-known and old bearing company based in Schweinfurt Germany. But the name matches a derogatory term in some countries.

With regard to "dust" versus "water" seals, I was not a bearing engineer, but my application used a "double-lip" seal, the inner lip kept in the grease, the outer lip kept out dust, and they both combined to keep out water.

Back in the day, for roller bearings, I bought Timken, but I don't think they made ball bearings, so for that it was New Departure Hyatt I think. "Doesn't anyone buy American anymore?" - Martin Blank, Grosse Point Blank

grumpus

I think I need to watch that again.

Duragrouch

I'm from Detroit 'burbs, so many lines are inside jokes.
"I'm staying at my parents'."
"What happened to your apartment?"
"Burned down on Devil's Night."

sweeks

Also a term for "cigarette" in others...

Andrew R Stewart 

You experienced what the added preload from a slight interference fit produces. I have removed many cartridge bearings from bikes that were rough spinning/gritty in place but "loosened up" when removed. By the same mechanism increasing spoke tensions can expand the hub shell and the bearing preload goes the other way, too loose. The new bearings have a smooth ball track still and thus won't have any roughness felt, even with too much preload. In theory the interference fit should add just the correct amount of preload that the bearing manufacturer deems correct for their product. But keeping tight tolerances is not what the majority of the bike business has embraced (and a huge reason why angular contact bearings with large diameter rolling elements were so common a hundred years ago, they better tolerate off axis bearing cups or cones). With so much distance (both in miles and in markets) between the final user and the source manufacturer that the feedback loop isn't what it was those hundred years ago only makes it less likely that a poor bearing fit up and install won't be corrected in a timely nature (like before that production run is finished).

This different preload and resulting feel is exactly the same with loose ball cup and cone angular contact bearings that most moderate and lower cost bike use these days (and were the standard across all price points only a couple decades ago). One can adjust the cup and cone bearings to freely spin even when well worn. It just takes reducing that preload enough. This is not the best way to service a cup and cone bearing but a method I (and many other mechanics) have done on so many poorly assembled and maintained bikes during tune ups. One aspect of servicing that a pro has a better understanding of is the "good enough" point and trading off cost of service against perceived benefits. Andy

Bill Kapaun

Sometimes you just have to write Fischer's Automatische Gusstahlkugelfabrik.

Duragrouch

There's 3 s in Gussstahlkugelfabrik. Doesn't look right, but that's what it says on the company website and wiki. I don't speak Deutsch.

FBinNY 

It has 3 sss because its actually 4 words. So you have the last 2 from guss and the first one from stahl.
Separated they would translate to:
Cast steel ball manufacturer.

But Germans like to combine multiple words when describing a single thing, like the way we say railroad, instead of rail road in english. For example while we say train station, Germans would say trainstation. (bahnhof), and maintrainstation.

Duragrouch

Thanks! As logical as a DIN standard. Saves paper space in books.

grumpus

It looks better written Gußstahl but that can be considered archaic, it's not how its taught in German schools.

Duragrouch

Thank you. And also, harder to key on an old Smith-Corona (I date myself). This electronic ink makes things so much easier.

(When commenting about inferior USA primary school education, versus Germany and Japan) "They think that with a fax, the paper is sent through the telephone lines. Idiots! Only the INK goes through the wires!" - Dave Barry

KerryIrons

While your statement is basically true, the time to failure can vary widely depending on bearing seal design, bearing quality, and maintenance. I'm used to not having to replace bearings over many tens of thousands of miles. But then I ride Campagnolo exclusively. YMMV