Now Vino's positive?
07-24-07, 04:44 PM
#351
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I'm not making accusations. I'm asking people to provide proof. All they can come up with is stories about football players and meatheads taking steroids.
If you're going to say Cat 4's, Cat 5's and a whole lot of Cat 3's dope, back it up.
But I guess this is BF and it would be silly that someone would actually need to make an argument based on fact or reason. What's the fun in that.
I do think it would be pretty funny if one of you skeptics would walk up to the start line at your next local Cat 5 race and tell all the starters that you know that there are Cat 5's doping out there, and you've got your eye on them. I'd pay to see that.
If you're going to say Cat 4's, Cat 5's and a whole lot of Cat 3's dope, back it up.
But I guess this is BF and it would be silly that someone would actually need to make an argument based on fact or reason. What's the fun in that.
I do think it would be pretty funny if one of you skeptics would walk up to the start line at your next local Cat 5 race and tell all the starters that you know that there are Cat 5's doping out there, and you've got your eye on them. I'd pay to see that.
Peruse through these...I was shocked myself...
https://www.cuttingedgemuscle.com/Forum/index.php?
https://www.elitefitness.com/
links courtesy of this thread...
https://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=298882
07-24-07, 04:45 PM
#352
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07-24-07, 04:57 PM
#353
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There’s only one problem to your theory, EOP (Erythropoietin) is a biologic and not a true pharmaceutical (small molecule) so you couldn’t actually make a generic version unless you had your own cell line and performed extensive clinical trials.
07-24-07, 05:06 PM
#354
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12 ? i'll need more than drugs to hit that. I should just start starving now...
07-24-07, 05:16 PM
#355
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https://www.lequipe.fr/ reminds me of the Enquirer....
It's a fact he must have very, very good contacts to UCI and/or Chatenay Malabry officials, cause L'Equipe always comes up first with the news.
Watch next, Armstrong is expected to be on Champs Elysees next Sunday, to help Bruyneel find a new sponsor for his team. If he allows a press conference, reporters will try again to corner him, and he'll answer again with arrogance. Back in the US he'll tell then the press, how nasty those European "tabloids" are...
07-24-07, 05:40 PM
#356
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Great! so Borat's on dope, this doesn't come to me as a suprise from Kazakhstan.
+ Vinos initial excuse was that the accident caused it, I thought you'd lose blood from the accident not gain it via transfusion. Unless you stack it on top of a fresh roadkill very severly. But this didn't happen.
+ Vinos initial excuse was that the accident caused it, I thought you'd lose blood from the accident not gain it via transfusion. Unless you stack it on top of a fresh roadkill very severly. But this didn't happen.
07-24-07, 05:50 PM
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07-24-07, 05:56 PM
#358
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Look at these people.
They are all HAPPY.
What the hell is there to be happy about? Have they no understanding of what this is doing to their sport?
Bunch of jackasses.
07-24-07, 06:00 PM
#359
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I wonder how close we all are to doping. I don't know about you but if any of the big sport drink/supplement producers come out with something new and improved that will help flush acid better, last longer, climb better...I'm trying it; after all it's legal (at least today). Sleeping in altitude tents is also legal for the time being, if they weren't so freaking expensive, I bet a whole lot more people would be doing it. I saw people on a board just recently reacting to a study about huge doses of Echinacia (spelling probably screwed) a perfectly legal supplement you can find in any health food store, triggered the bodies production of EPO (basically) and people just went out and started trying it. No clinical work, no studies in the various medical journals, just some crap found on some medical web site and they started experimenting.
A good portion of us are no doubt one simple rule change from being guilty of doping. A good portion of us push the limits and if EPO were available at Walgreens on the shelf and cost $5.95 for 100 vials, I am guessing a whole slew of us would be using it, USCF permitted or not.
A good portion of us are no doubt one simple rule change from being guilty of doping. A good portion of us push the limits and if EPO were available at Walgreens on the shelf and cost $5.95 for 100 vials, I am guessing a whole slew of us would be using it, USCF permitted or not.
That is the thing, athletes have always looked for an edge. This is what angers me so much about the Barry Bonds thing . . . when fans and media say Hank Aaron/Babe Ruth/Insert old name did it the right way. This is projecting. It is giving him credit for a decision he did not make. These drugs were not around. I am not saying they would have done it, but athletes throughout history have done things to mortgage the future to get an edge today.
When it was found that protein helped build/repair muscles, athletes could not get enough. Raw eggs, etc. Then sports drinks came out . . . everyone used them. Clearly these are legal, but the point is as soon as there is an edge, no one wants to be left out.
I have always used accelorade and endurox as a distance runner. When I do not use it I 'know' I feel a difference. I am paying for improved nutrition and performance. Not the same as breaking rules, but the mentality is close.
07-24-07, 06:38 PM
#360
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lol, running a stop sign on a club ride?? that's horrible and dangerous??
07-24-07, 06:38 PM
#361
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please keep posting often....
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Tom Hagen: 'Thank you for the dinner and a very pleasant evening. If your car could take me to the airport - Mr. Corleone is a man who insists on hearing bad news immediately.'
07-24-07, 06:42 PM
#362
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i was shocked too until i scrolled down and saw this ad on that site:
then my shock gave way to intense interest and hope...
then my shock gave way to intense interest and hope...
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Tom Hagen: 'Thank you for the dinner and a very pleasant evening. If your car could take me to the airport - Mr. Corleone is a man who insists on hearing bad news immediately.'
Tom Hagen: 'Thank you for the dinner and a very pleasant evening. If your car could take me to the airport - Mr. Corleone is a man who insists on hearing bad news immediately.'
07-24-07, 06:44 PM
#363
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You know, I used to take pride in telling folks, "I do triathlons." Or "I did x amount of miles across a particular state" or "I rode my bike this far."
Now, I feel like I should be a little more hesitant in making such remarks. To the non-cyclist, even a metric century seems like the impossible. So, as more cycling doping allegations break(as well as other sports), endurance athletes...and particularly cyclists...are going to start getting stereotyped from Joe Public as using PED's to complete such "monumental" tasks....instead of the reality..which is hard work and dedication to your sport.
That's just my $0.02 on the matter....
Now, I feel like I should be a little more hesitant in making such remarks. To the non-cyclist, even a metric century seems like the impossible. So, as more cycling doping allegations break(as well as other sports), endurance athletes...and particularly cyclists...are going to start getting stereotyped from Joe Public as using PED's to complete such "monumental" tasks....instead of the reality..which is hard work and dedication to your sport.
That's just my $0.02 on the matter....
07-24-07, 06:45 PM
#364
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07-24-07, 06:46 PM
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07-24-07, 06:56 PM
#366
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they likely are just amused by something that has been heard or seen off camera...
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Tom Hagen: 'Thank you for the dinner and a very pleasant evening. If your car could take me to the airport - Mr. Corleone is a man who insists on hearing bad news immediately.'
Tom Hagen: 'Thank you for the dinner and a very pleasant evening. If your car could take me to the airport - Mr. Corleone is a man who insists on hearing bad news immediately.'
07-24-07, 07:18 PM
#368
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SOmehow this does not surprise me, and Vino must be an idiot of the first order. After siginng a waiver giving up your wages for the year if caught he must have thought the potential reward was greater than the risk...and THAT is a shame.
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07-24-07, 07:20 PM
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From the article:
Tour de France officials expressed dismay at the latest doping case to scar the event and the sport as a whole.
"Everyone will feel betrayed," said Patrice Clerc, head of Amaury Sports Organisation, which owns the Tour.
"The public wants to see a credible winner."
But Clerc said it "never crossed my mind" to halt the Tour.
"We have started a war against doping," he said.
"It's out of the question to give up."
Don't worry. Now that war has been declared, all will be well again. Just like with the "war on poverty/drugs/hunger/terror". Ugh.
... Brad
Tour de France officials expressed dismay at the latest doping case to scar the event and the sport as a whole.
"Everyone will feel betrayed," said Patrice Clerc, head of Amaury Sports Organisation, which owns the Tour.
"The public wants to see a credible winner."
But Clerc said it "never crossed my mind" to halt the Tour.
"We have started a war against doping," he said.
"It's out of the question to give up."
Don't worry. Now that war has been declared, all will be well again. Just like with the "war on poverty/drugs/hunger/terror". Ugh.
... Brad
07-24-07, 07:23 PM
#371
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Sad to say, but doping is here to stay; too much money to be made in sports.
BTW is there a sport w/o doping? Golf has now been said to have dopers too...GOLF?
07-24-07, 07:26 PM
#372
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I've seen 8th graders who doped for their junior high athletic teams - remember, just because someone is a Cat5 doesn't mean they don't have dreams of becoming more and will do anything to advance. It disgusts me, but that don't mean it don't happen or that I gotta hide my head in the sand that it does. Welcome to America, pal, where way too many feel it is not only acceptable, but required, to excel via any means necessary.
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
07-24-07, 07:26 PM
#373
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"But the test used was validated by WADA (World Anti Doping Agency), and so the test is credible."
There is nothing credible about WADA, or any of the other doping agencies. I thought they weren't suppose to release names, and such tell the B Sample was tested?
My guess is he is guilty, but I won't jump on the guilty bandwagon until more info is made public. The french labs have proved themself less than accurate.
Of course why Vino worked with Michele Ferrari any longer was a bonehead move. Also his team shouldn't have let him work with a known doper.
Either way this is not good for cycling.
There is nothing credible about WADA, or any of the other doping agencies. I thought they weren't suppose to release names, and such tell the B Sample was tested?
My guess is he is guilty, but I won't jump on the guilty bandwagon until more info is made public. The french labs have proved themself less than accurate.
Of course why Vino worked with Michele Ferrari any longer was a bonehead move. Also his team shouldn't have let him work with a known doper.
Either way this is not good for cycling.
I agree with this. The labs who perform these tests are staffed with individuals of questionable competence, and the doping agencies shroud themselves in secrecy. Who is policing the police? The lack of due process procedures is also disturbing. Having said that, that doesn't mean that there aren't cyclists who dope and I wouldn't be surprised if Vino is guilty.
Even if he is, I think people may be overreacting to say that pro cycling is dead because one out of 160 cyclists in the peloton tested positive. How come no one says baseball is dead, in light of Barry Bonds and others? When Jose Conseco(sp?) published his big expose of doping in baseball, I don't recall anyone anywhere saying baseball was dead. The only thing I recall is that Congress decided it had nothing better to do than to interrogate some of the players on the subject.
Now, it is true that the situation between baseball and cycling is not exactly the same. Baseball is funded by teams whose main business is the sport itself, while pro cycling is funded by corporations whose primary business is something other than cycling. So I don't doubt that in the short term there will be the withdrawal of some sponsors. However, as long as there are a large number of fans willing to follow the sport, there will be some companies willing to sponsor it. Such is the beauty of capitalism. If anything, this could attract more attention to the sport, at least in the short term. Who doesn't think Versus' TDF ratings will improve because of this, at least temporarily?
07-24-07, 07:28 PM
#374
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No doubt...lots of jokes in this world.
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
07-24-07, 07:33 PM
#375
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Man, this is upsetting. I was really pulling for him and was in admiration of his composure after the fall, and perseverance. I didn't once question how he could remain stoic despite the pain, and even saw him as one that should be emulated by younger riders and fans alike. I don't know how much free will plays into influencing a cyclist to dope, whether it is moreover his team/coaches, etc. decision to pull the trigger or entirely that of the athlete, but either way, it's disappointing.