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Riding in a Pandemic

Old 03-14-20, 08:23 PM
  #126  
OBoile
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
My son is not racing until all this passes. I told him that he is not in the adverse affected group and should go racing. Really is no different than protecting oneself from a flu virus. Same age group and immune compromised groups that the flu adversely affects or kills. Healthy 20 and 30 somethings should go racing! Just don't visit grandma and grandpa for a month or two.
This is really bad advice. Yes, young people may not die from it, but they can still suffer long term damage, and, more importantly, they can cause the virus to spread further.
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Old 03-14-20, 08:36 PM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by Milton Keynes View Post
Still, I'd wipe down the handlebars with Lysol wipes. The virus can stay alive on surfaces for a while. And it's not just coronavirus but all the other nasty bugs out there as well you have to worry about.
Yep, a NY Post article outlined how they’re disinfecting CitiBike Bikeshare Bikes, I’d be surprised if Lyft/Motivate aren’t sharing this advice with their other city operations
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Old 03-14-20, 08:43 PM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post

talk about how the pandemic and the responses to it are affecting their riding
Well, no more commuting for me. Work from home until at least April 13.

I think I'll try to avoid the MUP and stick to pure road routes. This is more because the MUP is not my favorite than because I worry about human contact, but still. I'll also pay more attention to where my snot goes when I'm riding.

The hard part for me will be finding the balance between motivating myself to get in ~100 miles a week and completely caving to the addiction to the point where I don't get work done. Moderation is hard!
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Old 03-14-20, 08:50 PM
  #129  
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Suggestion: Bicycle riders, and Anyone using a public air hose to inflate their tires, can use gloves and apply a sanitizing product before they inflate And most definitely wash their hands after.
Also consider Wearing a sweatband to reduce sweat irritating your face, when riding or whenever the situations warrant. Not Wiping away sweat from your face, helps reduce the risk of getting COVID19. Sweatbands worn around the wrist can also help.



We are all in this together.

Last edited by WheelsDoHeal; 03-15-20 at 07:56 AM.
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Old 03-15-20, 05:46 AM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
I think you're imagining best case, just breezing by at a decent clip. I'm thinking of worst case, where you slow down to walking speed behind them waiting for a clear chance to pass, 5 or 6 seconds maybe more. It's not really dispersing the virus due to riding. Wind if there is any would do it.

How long you're there obviously impacts it, as I said originally. I'll probably do more quick passes and fewer slow-and-wait passes.
When I slow down to walking pace behind pedestrians I don’t nip at their heels. If you nip at their heels, please stop doing that. Virus or no virus. It’s creepy.

What a bizarre phobia.

-mr. bill
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Old 03-15-20, 06:04 AM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
I think you're imagining best case, just breezing by at a decent clip. I'm thinking of worst case, where you slow down to walking speed behind them waiting for a clear chance to pass, 5 or 6 seconds maybe more. It's not really dispersing the virus due to riding. Wind if there is any would do it.

How long you're there obviously impacts it, as I said originally. I'll probably do more quick passes and fewer slow-and-wait passes.
How about just staying 6.5 feet behind them? Sorry, but this just seems to be shading into neurotic. Not saying you are, this stuff is a bit nerve-wracking for most everyone, myself included.
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Old 03-15-20, 08:25 AM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
How about just staying 6.5 feet behind them? Sorry, but this just seems to be shading into neurotic. Not saying you are, this stuff is a bit nerve-wracking for most everyone, myself included.
You asked the question - you thought that there would be only reassurances? UV inactivates the virus, only dangerous for 10-20 minutes, hows that?

I am aware that most people never thought of this, and reject it as neurotic for that reason. When I was telling people weeks ago that I was going to stop shaking hands, not touch doorknobs or refrigerator handles, and try to to keep people 4 or 5 feet away, it struck them as shading into neurotic at the time. It's less of a factor outside (mainly because the density of people is lower) but I'm not joking either.

It's not the person that you're really distancing from, inside or outside. It's the air around them. At a brisk walking pace, how far do you think they've moved ahead of the air they breathed or coughed into in one second? 6 feet back, waiting to pass, is normal on a bike. Actually more than normally cautious, but it's actually the air they just passed through a few seconds previously, and less than 3 feet from the air they breathed out one second previously. People really should think it through (I mean mainly the other fellow) before deriding it as bizarre.
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Old 03-15-20, 11:42 AM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
I think you're imagining best case, just breezing by at a decent clip. I'm thinking of worst case, where you slow down to walking speed behind them waiting for a clear chance to pass, 5 or 6 seconds maybe more. It's not really dispersing the virus due to riding. Wind if there is any would do it.

How long you're there obviously impacts it, as I said originally. I'll probably do more quick passes and fewer slow-and-wait passes.
I'd picture every pedestrian and cyclist as a tiny diesel truck, spewing black exhaust. Their exhaust clouds will eventually diffuse away, but If you're following them, pausing behind them, or passing them, you will pass through their exhaust cloud.
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Old 03-15-20, 12:22 PM
  #134  
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I'm so slow that if I catch the virus, at least I will have the satisfaction of having caught something. I have, however, gotten a lock to secure my toilet paper, while on tour, so it is not stolen
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Old 03-15-20, 02:35 PM
  #135  
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A sneeze can release up to 100,000 germs into the air at speeds up to 100 mph and can reach a distance of 100 to 200 feet*.

Spain is passing a law banning bicycling during the pandemic.

A British source said 200 feet.

Cheers
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Old 03-15-20, 04:23 PM
  #136  
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
A sneeze can release up to 100,000 germs into the air at speeds up to 100 mph and can reach a distance of 100 to 200 feet*.

Spain is passing a law banning bicycling during the pandemic.

A British source said 200 feet.

Cheers
Spain banned “recreational” bicycling - races. Italy too. Both still allow commuting and errands. But please, let us not let facts get in the way of fud.

BTW, thank you for fudding social distance to 3 f’n acres.

-mr. bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 03-15-20 at 04:29 PM.
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Old 03-15-20, 04:24 PM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
A sneeze can release up to 100,000 germs into the air at speeds up to 100 mph and can reach a distance of 100 to 200 feet*.

Spain is passing a law banning bicycling during the pandemic.

A British source said 200 feet.

Cheers
So for the same reasons don't ride in a car when there's someone else in it, don't ride in public transit if there's another person there and don't walk outside if there's another person within that distance.
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Old 03-15-20, 06:26 PM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
You asked the question - you thought that there would be only reassurances? UV inactivates the virus, only dangerous for 10-20 minutes, hows that?

I am aware that most people never thought of this, and reject it as neurotic for that reason. When I was telling people weeks ago that I was going to stop shaking hands, not touch doorknobs or refrigerator handles, and try to to keep people 4 or 5 feet away, it struck them as shading into neurotic at the time. It's less of a factor outside (mainly because the density of people is lower) but I'm not joking either.

It's not the person that you're really distancing from, inside or outside. It's the air around them. At a brisk walking pace, how far do you think they've moved ahead of the air they breathed or coughed into in one second? 6 feet back, waiting to pass, is normal on a bike. Actually more than normally cautious, but it's actually the air they just passed through a few seconds previously, and less than 3 feet from the air they breathed out one second previously. People really should think it through (I mean mainly the other fellow) before deriding it as bizarre.
I thought about your passing from behind scenario, and I don't think it's realistic that the virus would be passed this way. You seem to have forgotten that people breathe out of the front of their heads and generally in a downward direction. We aren't avoiding the air around the person, that's just wrong. We are avoiding inhaling the particulate matter that they are exhaling, specifically the viral load contained in that matter. I'm supposed to believe that the following probabilities will sum to significant threat I should worry about?

Prob. person infected x prob. no wind x prob of particulate matter passing around the head and torso of the person x prob that particular matter contains significant live viral load x prob that blob of matter remains coherent x prob that blob ends up being inhaled by me.

Any reasonable numbers for those variables, and they will sum close enough to zero for me to disregard the threat.

This is not a closed room situation, we are not face to face for any real length of time, and if you consider that contact too close, you really can't go anywhere in a city. By your logic, any crosswalk on a busy street must be a morass of floating viruses.
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Old 03-15-20, 06:29 PM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
A sneeze can release up to 100,000 germs into the air at speeds up to 100 mph and can reach a distance of 100 to 200 feet*.

Spain is passing a law banning bicycling during the pandemic.

A British source said 200 feet.

Cheers
Before you start spreading crazy numbers like that, I suggest you learn something about the inverse square law.
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Old 03-15-20, 06:37 PM
  #140  
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Very bad news from Italy:

Italians over 80 'will be left to die' as country overwhelmed by coronavirus


Here is another stable genius:

‘It’s a great time to go out’: California Republican Devin Nunes talks about life amid the coronavirus pandemic
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Old 03-15-20, 10:51 PM
  #141  
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I got out for 15 miles today. My wife needed an Amazon item returned, so I rode up to the UPS store to drop it off. I went the long way. (UPS store is just a block from my house). I must have seen over a dozen other riders out enjoying the day. Either it was no TV Sports, or a small break in 4 days of almost solid rain, but was good to see other riders out. I got cut off by a lady in a Kia, passing on my left, turning right across my bow. Had to hit the brakes to miss her. She violated the 6 foot rule! When I finally got to UPS, it was closed. Oh well, there is always tomorrow, and I had a good ride anyway.
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Old 03-16-20, 12:15 AM
  #142  
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Since I'm just recently refocusing on cycling and working to get my legs back and my mileage up, this is an actual topic I've been thinking about. I was thinking I was about ready to go back and re-join a particular group ride I'd been doing quite a bit over the years, but I think I'll hold off doing the group ride again for at least a few more weeks to see how things shake out. A few more weeks will help me out anyway, since with some more ramping up of mileage I'll be more ready to hold my place in line in the faster of the two groups that do that ride, and the faster of the two groups is what I've always done and want to do again.

As far as my solo rides, since I'm riding on back roads these days I'm 100% unconcerned by the virus. I don't come into close contact with anyone. Unless some Yahoo rolls up besides me in their truck and coughs in my face I should be just fine.

I'm also unsure whether I should continue my sessions at the gym. All I've done at my gym lately is swim laps, which I think would be fine due to the chlorine, but then I like to sit in the sauna for a while, and I'm not sure if the virus would collect and survive in a sauna, where I could expect occasional strangers to be in fairly close proximity.
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Old 03-16-20, 04:59 AM
  #143  
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Rode a solo century on Saturday and 73 miles yesterday. Yesterday's ride was to Watertown MA. On the way down to Watertown, got a flat when my tire got punctured. Managed to boot it with a to go menu and rode it to Belmont to buy a tire. While in Watertown, saw several buses go by not carrying a single passenger, but the guy at Wheelworks told me their business is doing great. People seem to be shifting from public transit to the bike.

Rode on the Minuteman, pretty sure I got within three feet of a few people for fractions of seconds. This doesn't worry me.
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Old 03-16-20, 05:35 AM
  #144  
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In Dubai, where I currently live/work, the Government has closed the gyms (among many other places), so any riding outside one's home will be on the streets and/or bike trails. As a result of the coronavirus, traffic volumes on the streets is greatly reduced, making it safer to bike now than was the case prior to the pandemic.
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Old 03-16-20, 07:54 AM
  #145  
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Right now we're still doing small group rides of 4-10 and I hope we can continue, but I'm prepared to go only solo if that appears to be what's in the national interest. Just in the last 36 hours new regulations have affected my family with NC closing public schools (wife) and Seattle closing all restaurants (oldest daughter). Youngest daughter's employer has closed their office and wants all staff to work from home. They're even sending care packages of office supplies, some food and sanitizers. It's a time like we've never seen before that's for sure.

I'm hoping our group can still ride by maybe spacing out more and not really pulling each other but I can see where we may decide to stop.

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Old 03-16-20, 08:12 AM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Prob. person infected x prob. no wind x prob of particulate matter passing around the head and torso of the person x prob that particular matter contains significant live viral load x prob that blob of matter remains coherent x prob that blob ends up being inhaled by me.
The biggest difference here - and I'm going to make an argument for you - is that in my scenario their back is turned to you. The transmission we're worried about is from droplets from coughs and sneezes, and those are expelled away from you and fall to the ground in a few seconds. This makes a pretty narrow scenario where you might be affected if you were riding or walking behind them. If the virus existed in aerosol suspension that would be a different story, but so far that's only known to happen in specific conditions which don't usually apply outside, so we're only really concerned with coughs, sneezes, spitting into the wind etc.


I think it needs to be emphasized that social distancing applies outdoors which is contrary to your reasoning here. Your probabilities mostly apply equally inside and outside. The difference you cite is the wind. And even with a slight wind, it's going to displace the air (with particulates) more than dispersing it.

The reasons for distancing still apply outside, and if there is a wind you have to adjust it for upwind/downwind. There are additional variables (which you didn't mention) but standing around outside you need similar precautions to inside.

Last edited by wphamilton; 03-16-20 at 08:54 AM.
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Old 03-16-20, 08:43 AM
  #147  
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
This is really bad advice. Yes, young people may not die from it, but they can still suffer long term damage, and, more importantly, they can cause the virus to spread further.
In fact, I've read recently that in China they've noticed that a lot of the people who have had the virus and recovered are showing a 10-20% reduction in lung capacity. This may be permanent.
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Old 03-16-20, 08:51 AM
  #148  
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The pandemic probably won't affect most of my riding. I tend to ride solo anywhere from 15 to 40 miles in sparsely populated rural areas. I also try to sneak in a couple of 15 mile rides a week on an MUP in Oklahoma City, where I work. I doubt I will quit doing that, since the MUP is not crowded and I don't stop anywhere.

The only group ride I do regularly starts and ends at a local brewery that offers a free beer to everyone who finishes the ride. I imagine fewer people will be showing up for that now, and fewer still that will stick around for a beer.

Most of the people at my office will in all probability be working from home soon. I was kind of looking forward to being able to sneak a daytime ride in during slow times, but unfortunately I've been deemed "essential personnel." Now there's the problem of trying to convince my boss that I'm not essential without insinuating that I'm expendable.
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Old 03-16-20, 09:07 AM
  #149  
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Around here (BC mountains) the only riding for the next 6 to 8 weeks is the fat bike - which I do solo. I had planned my usual month in Utah to get back into mountain bike riding shape. However, the government has recommended against all out of country travel which effectively voids my travel health insurance. They have also advised a 14 day self-quarantine for anyone coming into the country. And have cautioned that border stations may close. And I’m sure that’s more likely in the smaller remote ones close to where I need to cross.

So aside from any guess work about the transmission likelihood etc. the very practical effect I’m experiencing is the shutdown of a planned (and partially paid for) cycling trip. And, on the bright side, more fat biking!
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Old 03-16-20, 09:30 AM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
The biggest difference here - and I'm going to make an argument for you - is that in my scenario their back is turned to you. The transmission we're worried about is from droplets from coughs and sneezes, and those are expelled away from you and fall to the ground in a few seconds. This makes a pretty narrow scenario where you might be affected if you were riding or walking behind them. If the virus existed in aerosol suspension that would be a different story, but so far that's only known to happen in specific conditions which don't usually apply outside, so we're only really concerned with coughs, sneezes, spitting into the wind etc.


I think it needs to be emphasized that social distancing applies outdoors which is contrary to your reasoning here. Your probabilities mostly apply equally inside and outside. The difference you cite is the wind. And even with a slight wind, it's going to displace the air (with particulates) more than dispersing it.

The reasons for distancing still apply outside, and if there is a wind you have to adjust it for upwind/downwind. There are additional variables (which you didn't mention) but standing around outside you need similar precautions to inside.

I could take that apart, but it's really not worth it, and frankly I don't think either of us is qualified to talk about the wind's effects on a viral load. What you're missing is you're likening very brief incidental passing of less than 6 feet with prolonged social interaction at less than 6 feet. Indoors or outdoors, those are not the same thing. If you're likening brief incidental passing indoors vs. the same outdoors, I would expect that there's a better chance of catching it indoors.

You want to worry about something, try elevators and escalators where we we are forced to be right behind or next to people.

The people I can't figure out are the ones who spent the weekend crowding into stores. The checkout lines had to be the highest number of exposures right now..
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