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Why so expensive?

Old 11-27-19, 10:53 AM
  #26  
drzdave58
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Originally Posted by TinyBear View Post
My goal is exercise and fun. If I want twist and go I have two motorcycles and two ATVS. I can be found off roading the one hike or ATVS every chance I get itís my favourite pass time. I also love long touring trips on my motorcycle (last summer was 2000kms north to camp on James bay and travel the James bay highway (some of the most remote roads in Canada). So as you can see I love the out doors I love trails and I love exploring.


BUT There are many trails where I live that are bicycle and walking only. I miss riding those and I need/want to improve my health, strength (lost a lot of strength after being hit by a Car in a motorcycle accident) and Cardio.

As of now I can manage a couple trips around the block on my bicycle. Before fatigue and pain make it detrimental to push further (aka I can go further but then not likely to be able to ride the next day). My thought with the e bike was not to have a twist and go ease but to allow my to continue/resume the riding I enjoyed prior to getting hurt while slowly building the muscle and cardio back up.

That being said said I canít justify huge expense to do so as Itís not needed. The thought was to sell my dirt bike motorcycle in exchange for the e bike. Just having hard time justifying that to myself I guess.
if your goal is exercise and fun then you should consider putting a bafang midrive motor with pedal assist and throttle on a mountain bike you already have...the kits go for $1500 or so plus installation which is usually $100...this way you can still do some pedaling for exercise...if you want to change bikes you can always remove the kit and put it on another bike...Iíve had my kit on 2 different bikes so far and itís great...as far as selling a dirt bike to buy a nice ebike...personally I would have no problem doing that...Iíve owned several motorcycles over the years and can honestly say I have just as much fun on my bicycles...
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Old 11-27-19, 03:38 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by drzdave58 View Post
if your goal is exercise and fun then you should consider putting a bafang midrive motor with pedal assist and throttle on a mountain bike you already have...the kits go for $1500 or so plus installation which is usually $100...this way you can still do some pedaling for exercise...if you want to change bikes you can always remove the kit and put it on another bike...Iíve had my kit on 2 different bikes so far and itís great...as far as selling a dirt bike to buy a nice ebike...personally I would have no problem doing that...Iíve owned several motorcycles over the years and can honestly say I have just as much fun on my bicycles...

I have had a lot of fun trail riding on my bicycles in the past. It was slower paced and Much harder physically. But the trails were tight and fun. BUT more fun than a trail riding motorcycles? not really just different. Very very different experience. And I honestly donít want to give it up. But I have to do something to get my weight down and build strength. I will still have the ATVs for trail riding up north with friends. And the adventure touring Motorcycle for pleasure and summer commuting.

So I sold my DRZ400 last spring and will likely sell my little TW200 this spring. That money will then go to ATV tires and savings or to an E Bike conversion.
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Old 11-27-19, 03:45 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by TinyBear View Post
I have had a lot of fun trail riding on my bicycles in the past. It was slower paced and Much harder physically. But the trails were tight and fun. BUT more fun than a trail riding motorcycles? not really just different. Very very different experience. And I honestly donít want to give it up. But I have to do something to get my weight down and build strength. I will still have the ATVs for trail riding up north with friends. And the adventure touring Motorcycle for pleasure and summer commuting.

So I sold my DRZ400 last spring and will likely sell my little TW200 this spring. That money will then go to ATV tires and savings or to an E Bike conversion.
I had a drz400s too....great bike!...I kinda regret letting that go...but I found when I had motorcycles I didnít ride my bicycle enough...so now Iím just into bicycles...I have a custom built ebike but I make sure I ride my regular bikes almost every day too...
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Old 11-27-19, 03:53 PM
  #29  
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Supply and demand. You don't need to dig any deeper than that.. Manufacturers are in it to make a profit, and they'll charge what the market will pay.
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Old 12-31-19, 04:16 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by bbbean View Post
Supply and demand. You don't need to dig any deeper than that.. Manufacturers are in it to make a profit, and they'll charge what the market will pay.

I agree totally with this! The ebike demand is so great in my opinion because of all those who have never had or may never ride a motorcycle or motor scooter plus all those too young to ride a motorcycle on the road.

I have always had motorcycles but I bought an ebike a few months ago and its opened up a whole new world riding around on my cities bicycle /pedestrian paths with views I have never seen before. Its worse for me because in Australia we have got the same as EU rules with 250w restriction but saying that my ebike has plenty of get up and go and who really wants to go over 30kph on footpaths and trails? so many people spending too much money on expensive modifications and home builds just to squeeze an extra couple of MPH out of their ebike when they could have just gone out and bought a cheap Chinese or Korean motorbike/motor scooter at a cheaper price!

I would suggest buying a purpose made ebike with strong torque and long range, I live in Perth Australia one of the windiest Cities in the world and my rear hub 250w ebike makes mincemeat out of it in PAS and throttle.

Rad Rover for me if I was in the States just because of their customer service and endless purpose designed accessories but in the end 99.9% of ebikes and ebike parts come from China anyway so you are just paying a re sellers knock up price for customer service.
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Old 12-31-19, 06:55 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by fishtaco View Post
I agree totally with this! The ebike demand is so great in my opinion because of all those who have never had or may never ride a motorcycle or motor scooter plus all those too young to ride a motorcycle on the road.

I have always had motorcycles but I bought an ebike a few months ago and its opened up a whole new world riding around on my cities bicycle /pedestrian paths with views I have never seen before. Its worse for me because in Australia we have got the same as EU rules with 250w restriction but saying that my ebike has plenty of get up and go and who really wants to go over 30kph on footpaths and trails? so many people spending too much money on expensive modifications and home builds just to squeeze an extra couple of MPH out of their ebike when they could have just gone out and bought a cheap Chinese or Korean motorbike/motor scooter at a cheaper price!

I would suggest buying a purpose made ebike with strong torque and long range, I live in Perth Australia one of the windiest Cities in the world and my rear hub 250w ebike makes mincemeat out of it in PAS and throttle.

Rad Rover for me if I was in the States just because of their customer service and endless purpose designed accessories but in the end 99.9% of ebikes and ebike parts come from China anyway so you are just paying a re sellers knock up price for customer service.

I looking into a couple of the Volt Bike offerings myself. They have a Yukon 750 model very similarly spec to the Rad rover but with better brakes and a slightly lower price. It also ships mostly assembled. Price for there bikes seem fair compared to the rest. I looked heavily at converting one of my current bikes but cost wise it will be damn near the cost of one of volt bikes or rad rover. So I honestly likely just keep my current bikes and add a e bike.

My main complaint was just the comparative costs of a top end mountain bicycle e bike or other wise being near or more than a top level duel sport motorcycle (that arguably incorporates more tech). But alas everythingís worth what people are willing to pay I suppose.
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Old 01-01-20, 05:06 PM
  #32  
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In 2004 I bought a 1994 Honda Civic Wagon for $800 and drove it fully loaded from Salem, OR to NYC in 5 days stopping each night! That meant freeway speeds during the day all day. Is there an e-bike made that can pull that off? For $800?! 3 months later I drove the Honda back to Salem, loaded it again with remaining possessions and drove back to NYC. Some people don't put that kind of mileage on a car in a full year of driving. This car already had over 250K miles when bought. Some months later it was impounded by NYC Parking Violations Bureau and I was unable to pay the close to $500 in storage, Sherrif and other fees so I let them keep it. The tandem that is our car cost $1000 new in 2016. The tandem that is our sportscar cost $1000 new in 2005. But the tandem that we bought when we first met only cost $200 new. Basically that is your $99 dept. store BSO single bike. Cheap bikes are available just like cheap cars. Capitalism at its finest. Cheap electric bikes are also available. One could ask why someone should pay $1M for a Bugatti Veyron. I don't understand the o.p., I don't understand why they want high end bicycles at department store bicycle prices.
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Old 01-02-20, 12:33 AM
  #33  
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Low and mid priced ebikes are all mass produced in China and just a cheap bicycle with some electrical components added so no not really worth what is being charged for them unless the seller is adding quality bicycle components
If you want to keep it for years make sure the battery pack is of good quality with the longest range, looks like some sellers and home builders are favouring the dolphin pac style and although bulky and ugly they are easily replicable without having to change the battery cradle or retro fit, If you buy a bike with slimline battery that integrates into the frame it could well be superseded and force many into buying a new model once the battery quits?

Is Volt Yukon "Yukon Trail"? Ask to see the full computer display spec sheet as many of them show "Yukon Trail" as the aftersales contact
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Old 01-02-20, 03:50 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by fishtaco View Post
Low and mid priced ebikes are all mass produced in China and just a cheap bicycle with some electrical components added so no not really worth what is being charged for them unless the seller is adding quality bicycle components
If you want to keep it for years make sure the battery pack is of good quality with the longest range, looks like some sellers and home builders are favouring the dolphin pac style and although bulky and ugly they are easily replicable without having to change the battery cradle or retro fit, If you buy a bike with slimline battery that integrates into the frame it could well be superseded and force many into buying a new model once the battery quits?

Is Volt Yukon "Yukon Trail"? Ask to see the full computer display spec sheet as many of them show "Yukon Trail" as the aftersales contact
https://www.voltbike.com/voltbike-yu...ited-2018.html

Thats the volt Yukon I was speaking of. Seems to have favourable reviews from what I can find. I just have no interest in the twist throttle and I dislike that shifter setup. But one I just dot have to use and Iím sure I can manage getting used to the shifter.

my only other hiccup with the bike is not being sure I want a fat tire bike.

They are China made bikes and then assembled and setup in B.C. Canada then shipped assembled (-pedals and the handle bars need to be put on). Batteries look a bit nicer than some other bikes I have seen and have Panasonic cells and a large capacity. And from the few reviews I have read the battery is pretty good.
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Old 01-02-20, 04:56 AM
  #35  
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ou say you are not interested in a throttle but its very handy half way up hills and if you do get a fat bike they can be a bit hard to peddle off from start before the PAS kicks in especially if you need to stop suddenly to cross traffic on a bike ramp, its like trying to peddle off in top gear and that's also where the throttle comes in handy, I had to put my tyre pressure up to 25lbs as any softer took a huge effort to get going without the throttle but the increased pressure makes the ride a lot harder.
I have a fat bike and they look great but to be honest if I had my time again I would have got an e bike with regular MTB tyres because I don't do snow or beach and that's what the fat tyres are for and at low tyre pressure.
My bike is pretty similar to the Voltbike Yukon but the older model with only 250w motor but it does have Panasonic cells and 48v 14.5amh. My top speed so far has only been 38kph (23.5mph) but I can easily get 60kms (38 miles) on one charge.
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Old 01-02-20, 12:26 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by fishtaco View Post
ou say you are not interested in a throttle but its very handy half way up hills and if you do get a fat bike they can be a bit hard to peddle off from start before the PAS kicks in especially if you need to stop suddenly to cross traffic on a bike ramp, its like trying to peddle off in top gear and that's also where the throttle comes in handy, I had to put my tyre pressure up to 25lbs as any softer took a huge effort to get going without the throttle but the increased pressure makes the ride a lot harder.
I have a fat bike and they look great but to be honest if I had my time again I would have got an e bike with regular MTB tyres because I don't do snow or beach and that's what the fat tyres are for and at low tyre pressure.
My bike is pretty similar to the Voltbike Yukon but the older model with only 250w motor but it does have Panasonic cells and 48v 14.5amh. My top speed so far has only been 38kph (23.5mph) but I can easily get 60kms (38 miles) on one charge.
Those are the reasons exactly I not too crazy about the fat bike. That being said we do see a bit of snow here and may extend times I can use the bike having a fat bike. I could always opt for there Bravo model which is similar to the Yukon but $100 cheaper and 27.5Ē tires.
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Old 01-02-20, 05:19 PM
  #37  
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Ok I am pretty new to bikes as apposed to motorbikes but looking at the Yukon 750 Limited to me the frame looks a bit odd for the Fat bikes style, there is a big gap on the down tube between the top tube and hard tail, the hard tail is much lower than the top tube as if it was designed to have mid suspension like the Voltbike Enduro! I am sure it would not affect strength but along with the new style full length mud guards with flimsy wire braces and lack of big white lettering on the new anti puncture tyres to me it makes the bike look like a city commute style bike with a sports front end and fat tyres? maybe Its just my perception of style or how a bike should look as apposed to how they do look nowadays?
In my opinion the Limited should have at least been fitted with an upgraded display and computer switchgear, that rear mudguard would drive me nuts I recon it would rattle around like a cheap Walmart bike after a few rides and mow your lawn for you! lol
I am not knocking the Voltbikes at all, my ebike is basically a Yukon 750 with different frame and 250w motor, Australian safety and design regulations are pretty strict on imports limiting not just motor size but frame strength,I paid the same price in $au as the limited costs $cnd and its a big chunk of change so you need to get it right for your own peace of mind.
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Old 01-03-20, 07:10 AM
  #38  
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I agree that Yukon looks a bit odd. Same as the rad rover. Just seem too high in the front end for my taste. But the bike I like (Giant fathom E) I just can’t justify the cost.

so it’s either a cheap hub drive bike or convert my current bike.

Yesterday i did a bit of work on my hybrid bike as it has not been touched since 2012 when I got hurt. And took it for a 5km ride. My bloody god I forgot how ruff the ride on a fully ridged bike with road bike tires is. My battered body can’t take that regularly so I think I will be cleaning it up and selling it, or look into putting different rims tires forks and a suspension seat post onto it then converting it. Likely cost more but then it be the solid machine.
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Old 01-03-20, 11:28 PM
  #39  
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Driving on a trail, a deer looks up, take a picture, it continues eating, not getting that on a 4-wheeler
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Old 01-04-20, 01:07 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Frankenbike27 View Post
Driving on a trail, a deer looks up, take a picture, it continues eating, not getting that on a 4-wheeler
With or without the Yukon750 limited commuter rear mud guard? lol
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Old 01-04-20, 03:12 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Frankenbike27 View Post
Driving on a trail, a deer looks up, take a picture, it continues eating, not getting that on a 4-wheeler
I get you point. And its obviously not a deer. But taken from an ATV trip this fall lol.


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Old 01-05-20, 09:01 AM
  #42  
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Hi there! The price of e bikes is getting higher these days because of the improvements in technology. There is the second reason of profit margin, each company is searching now to have it as high as possible no matter the quality of the product; here I have to agree with you. However, it's still an interesting way to get into e biking and that's by a DIY project. There are plenty of kits on the internet and getting them on a cheap mtb (with hydraulic brakes I recommend) will result you in around 1000 euros for a more than decent setup.
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Old 01-06-20, 11:28 AM
  #43  
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Hi TinyBear, I see you're getting advice over at the EBR (Expensive Bike Ramblings). forum.
If you're looking to spend $1900CDN on a fat tire bike, I'd suggest you try and compare them to the regular tire bikes.I own two fat tire ebikes, neither very expensive, but since I can't transport either to the beach and don't care much for snow, I find them of limited appeal compared to a regular tire ebike. It's like SUV vs sedans. I like the SUV, but when I go into the city, I sure like parking my sedan a lot better.

Throttles are good to have. I did rig up my fatbike with a one wheel hitch hiker. The bikes are almost 100 pounds. I'm 200 at the moment. That's 340 pounds with the little kid Starting off from a dead stop, I'd almost fall over or get a hernia if I had to downshift to the lowest gear and stand on the pedals. Nice to get an easy start with the throttle.
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Old 01-06-20, 07:07 PM
  #44  
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I looking for all the advice I can get.

I also looking for a bike that will be just a good machine to accommodate my limitations and allow me to ride further. Something capable of light trails and offers some comfort. A bike with components that are decent and will last.

Transportations not really a problem as I drive a pickup (needed for the dirt bikes and ATVs)

that being said the fat bikes are not really my preference. Honestly I just want a hard tail like my non assisted bike but with some electric assist that I don’t have to spend an arm and a leg. (Hell I spent a good chunk of that one leg all ready when got hit by the car hence needing a e bike lol)
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Old 01-07-20, 11:53 AM
  #45  
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I too live in Ontario. I have tried some cheaper bikes and didn't like the feel of the power delivery. I ended up buying two 2019 Giant Lafree city bikes at$2499 ea. (taxes in). I still ride my other bikes but enjoy riding with my wife on the Lafree. She is about to turn 77 and could use the boost to climb and keep up. Just today one of my riding buddies bought a Giant Explore E to replace his Giant Cypress. It was priced at $2799 and seems like a nice bike. Maybe the comparison to motorcycles does not matter. I priced a replacement battery at $700 so the parts add up. I'm not about to sit at home and grumble about the price,


Our Giant Lafree's on charge.
when a new iPhone can cost two grand. Real world range of 100km not trying to save power.
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Old 02-04-20, 08:42 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by TinyBear View Post
I just canít find a reason these e bikes or any bicycles are so expensive.

A E mountain bike hard tail starts around the $3500cdn. I can buy a very competent. Duel sport 250cc motorcycle new for $5000. Thatís a bike thatís street legal has decent suspension and can be ridden anywhere. A fully suspended high end bike is in the $7-9 thousand dollars. Again can buy very high end dirt bikes for less than that.

It just donít make sense to me. I want an e bike I really do. I think for my needs and with one. Leg weakened it help me a lot enjoy cycling again like I did before I got hurt. But the cost of entry is just too prohibitive. And I donít know why.
I see dime store bikes under 100 dollars like they were 20 + years ago. I don't have a problem paying 10,000 for a street motorcycle. I don't have a problem paying 9 grand for a 1 banger diesel auxiliary when I order a new sailboat A new sail costs over 4,000.

Same as automotive, a 55,000 dollar fancy pickup truck has 15,000 profit. The profit on a economy car is 1,000.

Most of the e-bikes under 1,500 -2,000 American look like home assembled kit bikes.
Asia has a lot of products we don't import in the lower quality e-bike space.
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Old 02-05-20, 07:05 AM
  #47  
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Spesh has a $13000 eMTB now. 38 pounds
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Old 02-15-20, 06:39 AM
  #48  
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I bought a cheap eBay ebike for my father-in-law last year for under $1200 shipped.
It’s nothing fancy, 7-speed, step-thru, folding frame, fat tire, front suspension, 500w motor, 48v battery.
Good enough for him (nearly 80 y-o) to ride to his favorite fishing spot and back with minimal pedaling.
He’s enjoying being outdoors, getting more physical activity, seems happy with what he has.
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Old 03-27-20, 07:47 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
The question makes sense from the perspective of needing something to get around on and how much that costs. ............snip ...................
In my opinion, it doesn't make economic sense unless you really like bicycles better in the first place. Enthusiasts will pay thousands for the bike, motor or not, so from their perspective it's not all that much more expensive.
Not everything I do in my life is based on money. For example, as a father of two 30+ year old sons, it could have been less expensive to send money to a 3rd world country and help 2 orphans get through school, get university educations and ... Raising my two sons was certainly expensive - and time intensive - for my wife and for me.

BUT, I did not. Similarly, I have 2 bicycles custom built to fit me by a now-retired expedition grade bicycle builder. Both bicycles cost over $3000 each, fit me very well, and sure have stood the test of touring outback Australia. Now, I could have rented a poorly-fitting touring bike (I am 6'5"), but chose to have bicycles that fit me and...

Make choices and live with them. I did and still do. By the way, maybe I should have helped 3rd world orphans, as well as raising my two - and still may - because my oldest son is sending money to help a child in Vietnam.

Last edited by tmac100; 03-27-20 at 11:30 AM.
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Old 03-27-20, 11:35 AM
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wphamilton
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Originally Posted by tmac100 View Post
Not everything I do in my life is based on money. For example, as a father of two 30+ year old sons, it could have been less expensive to send money to a 3rd world country and help 2 orphans get through school, get university educations and ... Raising my two sons was certainly expensive - and time intensive - for my wife and for me.

BUT, I did not. Similarly, I have 2 bicycles custom built to fit me by a now-retired expedition grade bicycle builder. Both bicycles cost over $3000 each, fit me very well, and sure have stood the test of touring outback Australia. Now, I could have rented a poorly-fitting touring bike (I am 6'5"), but chose to have bicycles that fit me and...

Make choices and live with them. I did and still do. By the way, maybe I should have helped 3rd world orphans, as well as raising my two - and still may - because my oldest son is sending money to help a child in Vietnam.
When the question makes sense from a particular perspective, that doesn't mean that other perspectives are invalid.

That said, struggling to find a reason why your spending money on your sons' education is relevant to why e-bikes are expensive ... I can't. Did someone complain about a choice they made to prompt that particular directive from you?
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