Can a friction shifter be upgrading with an indexed shifter?
#1
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Thread Starter
Can a friction shifter be upgrading with an indexed shifter?
I am trying to overhaul my wife's old Townshend bike. It has a 3 ring crankset and a set of old Shimano shifters. The left shifter had become really pretty knackered and was proving almost impossible to shift onto the big ring. So...... I decided to try to upgrade the shifters to indexed ones. The right shifter has not been a problem, but the left is refusing to go up to the big ring. I have made adjustments to the derailleur and I can get it to move to the large ring by pulling on the cable, but the shifter refused to go to that point on the shifter and, therefore, drops back to the middle ring.
Is it possible to to upgrade friction shifters with indexed ones or have I made a faux pas here by trying this in the first place. If so, what is the best way to remedy this? Is a derailleur upgrade likely to be the answer or should I go back to the friction shifter?
I have attached a couple of pics to help
Original friction shifter
The replacement Shimano SL-TX50 left indexed shifter.
Is it possible to to upgrade friction shifters with indexed ones or have I made a faux pas here by trying this in the first place. If so, what is the best way to remedy this? Is a derailleur upgrade likely to be the answer or should I go back to the friction shifter?
I have attached a couple of pics to help
Original friction shifter
The replacement Shimano SL-TX50 left indexed shifter.
#2
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It depends on whether the particular derailleurs are index-compatible; that is, whether the cable pull ratio is correct and the derailleur moves one cog over per one click on the shifter.
Sounds like you might just need to reposition the shift cable at the front derailleur. Loosen the cable clamp, pull a little more cable through, and retighten.
The right shifter has not been a problem, but the left is refusing to go up to the big ring. I have made adjustments to the derailleur and I can get it to move to the large ring by pulling on the cable, but the shifter refused to go to that point on the shifter and, therefore, drops back to the middle ring.
#3
Steel is real
you could try servicing the derailleur, a good clean with crc or wd-40 and give all the moving joints a lube
also check the cables, actually..i'd check the cables first, unhook it from the derailluer..to see how freely the housing slide.
the shifter can be cleaned and lubed too
i tend to prefer friction shifters at the front, or the types that click... which could be considered if the shifter needs replacement
also check the cables, actually..i'd check the cables first, unhook it from the derailluer..to see how freely the housing slide.
the shifter can be cleaned and lubed too
i tend to prefer friction shifters at the front, or the types that click... which could be considered if the shifter needs replacement
#4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
It depends on whether the particular derailleurs are index-compatible; that is, whether the cable pull ratio is correct and the derailleur moves one cog over per one click on the shifter.
Sounds like you might just need to reposition the shift cable at the front derailleur. Loosen the cable clamp, pull a little more cable through, and retighten.
Sounds like you might just need to reposition the shift cable at the front derailleur. Loosen the cable clamp, pull a little more cable through, and retighten.
I have tried moving the cable quite a bit. but will get back to some more adjusting in the morning to see if I can make this thing work.
#5
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Thread Starter
you could try servicing the derailleur, a good clean with crc or wd-40 and give all the moving joints a lube
also check the cables, actually..i'd check the cables first, unhook it from the derailluer..to see how freely the housing slide.
the shifter can be cleaned and lubed too
i tend to prefer friction shifters at the front, or the types that click... which could be considered if the shifter needs replacement
also check the cables, actually..i'd check the cables first, unhook it from the derailluer..to see how freely the housing slide.
the shifter can be cleaned and lubed too
i tend to prefer friction shifters at the front, or the types that click... which could be considered if the shifter needs replacement
Can you get sifters that click but are not indexed? I thought that this went together.
#6
Really Old Senior Member
Are you sure the cable is adjusted correctly?
Sounds like there is too much slack.
Start from step ONE.
Park Tool Co. » ParkTool Blog » Front Derailleur Adjustments
Some friction shifters have kind of a "ratchet" action that will have more clicks than shifts.
Sounds like there is too much slack.
Start from step ONE.
Park Tool Co. » ParkTool Blog » Front Derailleur Adjustments
Some friction shifters have kind of a "ratchet" action that will have more clicks than shifts.
#7
Senior Member
Make sure the cable is on the correct side of the bolt on the derailleur , if not it can throw off the derailleur when shifting .
#8
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Are you sure the cable is adjusted correctly?
Sounds like there is too much slack.
Start from step ONE.
Park Tool Co. » ParkTool Blog » Front Derailleur Adjustments
Some friction shifters have kind of a "ratchet" action that will have more clicks than shifts.
Sounds like there is too much slack.
Start from step ONE.
Park Tool Co. » ParkTool Blog » Front Derailleur Adjustments
Some friction shifters have kind of a "ratchet" action that will have more clicks than shifts.
#9
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I am pretty sure that it is in the right position now. It was not but, I have since moved it to the head side of the bolt and not the nut side.
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Most road bikes with index shifting do not index with one click for each chainring. Most Shimano triple front shifters have four or five index positions for three chainrings. My Campy shifters have 6 equally spaced positions for 2 chainrings, and I only use 3 of those.
Pro-tour riders often use friction shifting in the front to reduce total weight.
Last edited by Al1943; 06-27-15 at 03:57 PM.
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That is not the mistake normally made that causes poor shifting and requires extremely high cable tension to `move the derailleur. Most older derailleurs have a washer with a little tab and the cable must run over the tab, not under it, although running the cable under the tab seems to make sense.
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I tend to agree. Friction shifting is as good or better than indexed for the crankset.
Most road bikes with index shifting do not index with one click for each chainring. Most Shimano triple front shifters have four or five index positions for three chainrings. My Campy shifters have 6 equally spaced positions for 2 chainrings, and I only use 3 of those.
Pro-tour riders often use friction shifting in the front to reduce total weight.
Most road bikes with index shifting do not index with one click for each chainring. Most Shimano triple front shifters have four or five index positions for three chainrings. My Campy shifters have 6 equally spaced positions for 2 chainrings, and I only use 3 of those.
Pro-tour riders often use friction shifting in the front to reduce total weight.
#17
Senior Member
Thread Starter
That is not the mistake normally made that causes poor shifting and requires extremely high cable tension to `move the derailleur. Most older derailleurs have a washer with a little tab and the cable must run over the tab, not under it, although running the cable under the tab seems to make sense.
#18
Steel is real
Thanks. I have done a lot of cleaning on the derailleur. And the shifters and cables are new. I was a bit surprised that the new cables seemed 'stickier' than the old ones and it seems that they have some grease inside them rather than simply oil.
Can you get sifters that click but are not indexed? I thought that this went together.
Can you get sifters that click but are not indexed? I thought that this went together.
ok so you've got a handle on the servicng and could be just an adjustment problem
as far as that goes everybody gave the right advise
just make sure the stops are adjusted correctly, maybe the adjustment screw for the high gear [large ring] is screwed in too far..preventing the derailleur to reach the large ring properly
yes you can get front shifters that are inbetween friction and indexted
btw, grease is good for the cables
Last edited by le mans; 06-28-15 at 03:24 AM.
#19
Steel is real
oh you said 'stickier' not thicker so disregard that
maybe put the old cables back on if there's nothing wrong with them
maybe put the old cables back on if there's nothing wrong with them
#20
Senior Member
Thread Starter
That is not the mistake normally made that causes poor shifting and requires extremely high cable tension to `move the derailleur. Most older derailleurs have a washer with a little tab and the cable must run over the tab, not under it, although running the cable under the tab seems to make sense.
#21
Senior Member
Thread Starter
it must be the right cable if it fits in the shifter, even if the housing is thicker which might be meant for the brakes...one would think it would slide even better
ok so you've got a handle on the servicng and could be just an adjustment problem
as far as that goes everybody gave the right advise
just make sure the stops are adjusted correctly, maybe the adjustment screw for the high gear [large ring] is screwed in too far..preventing the derailleur to reach the large ring properly
yes you can get front shifters that are inbetween friction and indexted
btw, grease is good for the cables
ok so you've got a handle on the servicng and could be just an adjustment problem
as far as that goes everybody gave the right advise
just make sure the stops are adjusted correctly, maybe the adjustment screw for the high gear [large ring] is screwed in too far..preventing the derailleur to reach the large ring properly
yes you can get front shifters that are inbetween friction and indexted
btw, grease is good for the cables
Now to get rid of that annoying brake squeal...............
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That is not the mistake normally made that causes poor shifting and requires extremely high cable tension to `move the derailleur. Most older derailleurs have a washer with a little tab and the cable must run over the tab, not under it, although running the cable under the tab seems to make sense.
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I realize this is a very old thread, but I just wanted to thank you for this very correct piece of advice. Running the cable over the tab seems completely opposite of how it should work, but after hours of trying to get my derailleur to work with new shifters this is what finally solved the problem. Very thankful for this info! Thanks.
It's nice to know 16 years of toil in the dark back of bike shops had some value beyond my earning slightly more than minimum wage through my 20s. 👍