HTupolev

Pretty much all of the 'bents that I randomly happen across in the wild are going extremely slow.
But.
The vast majority of recumbents are not designed or equipped for speed, and most people who ride recumbents are fairly slow cyclists who are rarely inclined to attempt big efforts on their recumbents.

I liken the perception to that of wheelchairs. People usually think of unpowered wheelchairs as being slow compared with being on foot, because most people on wheelchairs move around pretty slowly (if they move around under their own power at all). But for anything other than a sprint, racing wheelchairs in track and field are considerably faster than humans on foot: in the 10km, wheelchair racers are more than 5 minutes faster than the world's best runners.
That is to say, most wheelchairs are slow because the use case doesn't call for speed. But if you put a strong athlete on a wheelchair that's built and set up for speed, it can be quite fast.

I don't own a recumbent, but two of my friends have Bacchetta CA's, and they are much faster on them than on their road bikes. It's the difference between them struggling to hang with a paceline, and them spending a majority of the time at the front of that paceline at a faster pace. If one of them is on the 'bent and the rest of us are on road bikes, and the group is of roughly equal ability, we basically end up trading "pulls" behind the recumbent: the draft pocket behind the recumbent is small and low, and it offers much less assistance than a road bike, so it requires a lot of effort in both legs and posture to be second in line when a 'bent is going tempo or harder at the front. I have a cat2 friend who won a P123 crit last summer, who said that spending lengthy stretches in the recumbent's draft pocket had been good training for enduring the breakaway. (And he's significantly stronger than the guys with the recumbents.)

Given that fietsbob mentioned things being "shaped like a fish", he might also be referring to faired recumbents, AKA velomobiles. There's really no question that those things run circles around road bikes, at least on level ground where their high weight isn't much of a problem. Strong riders in velomobiles can literally spend significant amounts of time at freeway speeds: the hour record for a faired recumbent is 57.4 miles.

(I have no idea how velomobiles perform in hills because I don't know anybody who rides one, but my friends' unfaired Bacchettas aren't half bad. My friends can sustain similar power outputs on them as on their road bikes, so it's really only the moderate weight penalty hindering them. It's a small enough difference that, for very shallow ascents or hills with dips along the way to the top, the recumbents can retain the advantage.
I think the idea that recumbents suck badly on climbs is driven partly by misinterpretation. People see recumbents getting blown away from a road group on an ascent, and attribute all of this to the recumbent climbing poorly, when in reality the recumbent maybe had a weak rider who only kept up on the flats because of their aero advantage.)

pullings

I used to think that recumbents were mostly owned by gadget-geeks who usually were not that fit.
When I first moved to inverness FL, one of my routes I used to see this recumbent rider regularly.
I kid you not he could sustain 20MPH on his recumbent....passing me (I was not much faster than 15MPH at the time) faster than any of the usual road-bikers. He was at least 60 yrs old.
Anyway, he totally changed my thoughts about recumbents not being a serious bike.
His bike was high-end, not aero though. Not even the wheels.
It's all in the rider, not the ride...but aero rider position of recumbent helps.

fietsbob

I'm talking about these guys hitting 89 mph over a precision timed, flying start, 200M

fietsbob

livedarklions

I should clarify that by in real life, I meant in the realm where us lesser mortals ride. Fared bikes on a track are a bit outside the scope of the OP.
​​​​

HTupolev

Sure, but there are road-worthy faired recumbents that are still much faster on the flats than unfaired road or TT/Tri bikes. And all of the riding that I've done with my friends on their high-racer Bacchettas has been on roads.

livedarklions

Like I said, I've never seen that. I'm happy to hear someone is actually doing it, so thanks!

3Roch

Just to further confuse things, but

For a number of years my multiple days per week local ride is a 7 1/2 mile "TT" loop near my house I ride as fast as I can. It's a LOT of hills ( it's part of the Savageman Triathlon route).. The bike of the moment is a ~1979 Motobecane Le Champion (steel) Renold 531 etc that is now 9 speed etc. weighs 20 lbs
The reason the thread caught my eye was the 15 mph. Just the other day I finally busted 15 as the average (some downhill sections are over 30, the up hills not so much.

In any case to get to the point last winter, for $400, got a Computrainer (OK I know they aren't cool anymore but they do work, I put my TT route in it and chased the evil pacer, for months...while being able to see watts, average speed, HR , work on pedal stroke and all that good stuff...really helped

just saying...

wipekitty

This.

If I drive to a course or ride that one route I can reach from home with only 1-2 stop signs/red lights, my average speed goes up a good 1.5-2 MPH - or more, compared to rides where I hit a lot of traffic on the way out of town.

Riding in even a very small group - like 3-4 people - with similar or better fitness, and taking turns pulling/drafting, will usually add about 1 MPH for me. More if it's a group that's stronger than me and I draft the whole time.

While I kind of care about average speed, I also realize that what matters most is average speed over specific portions of a ride - such as hill climbs or long, unbroken flat or rolling stretches.

BlazingPedals

Back when I was younger and stronger and rode an upright, most of my riding was done in groups, at 16-17 mph, and I was fine with that. I got my first recumbent due to comfort issues. I transitioned from a V-Rex, which is NOT particularly built for speed, to adding a fairing, to going full lowracer. With the lowracer, I could do the weekly 29 mile flattish training ride at 22.8mph, almost like clockwork; and I could ride off the front of any group, anytime the mood struck. I've been known to announce "Happy Feet!" and rocket off the front of a 25-mph group. The last they see of me is doing 30 mph up and over the next hill and disappearing.


I have a video showing me going 22-23 mph into a stiff headwind, and my friend in a velomobile passes me like I'm parked. The 65-lb velo is at a disadvantage only when the climbing is over about a mile at 6%; otherwise he just carries up and over. It's disgusting in a way. And yes I'd have one if I could afford it.)


All that said, it still takes a certain amount of power to get up to those speeds in the first place, and before aerodynamics become overwhelmingly important. Someone doing 14 mph ain't even close. Best advice has already been given. To ride faster, ride faster (and lots.)

Oso Polar

Yes, easily. Something as simple as slightly (e.g. 5 mm) different saddle offset or height can have huge implications on performance. As it is a new bike, ensure that your fit is correct, you may be a bit off from the optimal position now.

livedarklions

Y'know, I really shot off my own ignorant mouth on this thread, but I'm glad I did it. I'm learning a lot from the people correcting me. By coincidence, today was the first time I saw somebody really cruising fast on a recumbent on the road. We were going in opposite directions so I couldn't clock him, but I could tell it was at least fast double diamond range.

armaan

Leg press/ calf raises are great

burnthesheep

I thought about this one more and looked up our local 1/2 IM. So not even a full. I think it's a 1.3mi swim, 56mi bike, 13.1mi run.

The bell curve on finishers (not the pretty solid amount of folks DNF'ing) for just the bike leg is well under 20mph. I'd say a healthy % don't run tri/TT bikes either. I think the bell curve on finishers for bike leg speed was like 18mph or something. Given that, it seems in that sport at least, a fair amount of people still TRY to do longer events.

I know AOMM isn't a speed fest for aero wheels since it gains 12500 feet (the year I did it) but the DNF rate the year I did it was about one in four. I finished faster third despite a pretty slow time and pretty bad day of dehydration. That to say, plenty of folks still "try" longer or tougher events.

It's a bit silly to spend $2000 on wheels (triathlon assuming a disc and a nice front whee), but...........folks got money I guess. I mean, for that at least if you only do it once a year local shops rent wheels.

maschwab

Interval training. Once a week, for about 30 minutes, ride as hard as possible for about 1-2 minutes, then ride easy for 2-3 minutes. Stop sign / Stop light intervals are good too.

CyclingFever

Shave that arm hair and you'll gain at least 1 mph average

PatW

Sort of depends.

Conditions affect things considerably. Hills have a big effect. Wind has a big effect. Traffic lights, stop signs and other traffic delays will play heck with average speed (there is a loop near me that if I recall correctly was nearly impossible to average more than 20 mph... just too many places where you HAD to slow down and not too many places where you could let it rip.

Your bike really is not made for speed. A gravel bike is made for dirt roads and that bigger tires cost you.

Now assuming that you are young and fit, you should be able to do better. Riding intervals per se might not help much. By intervals, I mean all out effort for a limited time.

But if you want to ride faster you need to push yourself. One way to monitor how hard you are pushing is get a heart rate monitor. You don’t have to push yourself on every ride or even all of a ride of 20 miles. I have known people who pushed themselves every time they went out and nearly all of them were out of the sport in a few years. Pushing yourself really hard hurts. The bike becomes an instrument of torture. Enjoy the ride or you will quit.

But if you want to go faster, you have to push harder. If you always ride at a sedate pace, you will never get faster. Now some cyclists do fine riding at a moderate pace and never ever going faster and that is fine. There is room for all kinds of styles.

Also learn your style. Some people are good sprinters. Some people are good climbers. Learning your strengths will allow you to develop them and also work on your weaknesses. But it is nice to be aware that if you are a sprinter, you will not time trial well. If you have power, you might not be a great sprinter.

Good luck. And remember, no matter how good you are, someone is better unless you win the tour. And even if you win the tour, someone will take you place in not so long.

WinterCommuter

1. Where you ride matters. Every single stop sign, stop light, round about, might be slowing you down. Same goes for hills, you never recover the time going down that you lost going up.

2. when you ride also matters. If you really want to go fast, only attempt to go “full gas” once ever 2 weeks or so.

3. the temp and humidity matter. Too warm and you slow down. Too cool and you slow down too. Each of us is a bit different.

4. the wind matters. Too much wind will almost always hurt you unless you’re riding point to point with a tailwind

so, find a flat (only slightly rolling) route with little or no intersections. Start out in am when winds are light and you’re well rested and “hit it”. I don’t know if you’ll match your buddies, but over time you should see your best personal performances.

livedarklions

Also the drivetrain. The big chain ring is only 46t, that's great for dirt, but on the road, that's a lot of spinning.

crobertrose

I ride a 2018 gravel bike with 25mm tires (to help with speed) with typical gravel bike size front rings (2) and cassette (11 gears). I also ride a 1988 Bridgetsone road bike 14 speed with 52/39 rings and a 7 speed freewheel (13-19). Even my "worst: avg speed days on the road bike is always faster than the gravel bike.. Bottom line is a road bike is geared and built for speed and the gravel is not.... my 2 cents worth.....

caloso

46x12 is plenty enough gear up to 30mph.

Drew Eckhardt 

In https://www.quora.com/How-should-I-t...e-cycling-time I wrote:

Total power is the sum of aerobic and anaerobic components. Target both with aerobic requiring more training time and intensities between the two having limited benefit for speed. Learn to pedal faster. Lose weight if the course has hills.

Figure out your aerobic (AeT, VT1) and anaerobic (AnT, Critical Power, FTP, LT4, LTHR, VT2) thresholds.

One day a week, ride 7–10 minute intervals as hard as possible, stopping when you can’t exceed your anaerobic threshold. Stephen Seiler’s research into polarized training with Olympic and other endurance athletes is very relevant.

Ride below your aerobic threshold four days a week, including a long ride at least double your normal distance. One hour short rides are OK but two are better.

Go for a fast long ride one day a week for experience pacing and to see how you’re doing.

I like a FTP test every 3–4 week mesocycle to quantify gains.

Otherwise riding between the two thresholds won’t do much for speed once you have a bit of fitness - it engages your fast twitch fibers and glycolytic energy system so you’re no longer stressing your aerobic fitness to force improvement, is not hard enough to stress your anaerobic fitness, and adds more fatigue than riding with lower effort.

Take an easy week out of every 3 or 4 without the hard rides and lower volume to recover. Growing older makes needing a rest week in three more likely. Add 10% on your non rest weeks.

Change things like rest week volume and frequency when you’re having issues.

Track training stress to insure you’re not adding too much each week and have easy enough rest weeks to allow adaptation.

Your aerobic threshold is where breathing becomes rhythmic, conversation doesn't flow, and lactate/hydrogen ions start to accumulate. It's an intensity you could sustain for 3-5 hours with an even split between halves.

Mark Allen set his 2:40 Ironman marathon split record which stood for twenty-five years after training below his aerobic threshold, initially dropping his pace to 8:15 miles with performance improving over a year to 5:20 at the same 155 bpm heart rate.

Not coincidentally, the aerobic threshold heart rate is often close to that predicted by Phil Maffetone’s formula. He coached Mark Allen.

Your anaerobic threshold occurs around your average heart rate over the last 20 minutes of a 30 minute all-out effort. In theory you could do that for one hour although that's very unpleasant - Eddy Merckx, the greatest cyclist ever, said it was one of the hardest things he'd done on a bike:

It's very, very hard.
I couldn't walk for a few days after I did it.
That's how hard it is.

It’s approximately your Critical Power, or Functional Threshold Power where 95% of 20 minute power is an estimation varying in accuracy because people’s anaerobic reserve (Anaerobic Work Constant, w’) differs.

Training stress is approximately proportional to the square of exertion, with quadruple the time possible at half the intensity. It can be quantified on long term (fitness, Chronic Training Load, Long Term Stress) and short term (freshness, Acute Training Load, Short Term Stress) bases as exponentially weighted stress averages with typical 42 and 7 day periods. There is a delta subtracting short term from long term (Stress Balance, Training Stress Balance) reflecting how much of your fitness you’re using. You need negative balance for endurance increases, and to approach zero for recovery allowing training adaptations to take place.

For sustainable increases and sufficient recovery, track it with performance management software like Golden Cheetah (which runs on Windows, Mac, and Linux) or Training Peaks. Prefer a power based system like Coggan’s using Training Stress Score or Skiba’s BikeScore, although Banister’s TRaining IMPulse points work.

Use a power meter to quantify anaerobic performance and monitor how close you are to that threshold. Heart rate isn’t useful for hard workouts because it’s a lagging indicator. Too much exertion will limit duration by exhausting your muscle glycogen in less time (it can’t move between fibers) and causing fatigue proportional to the square of exertion.

Use heart rate for pacing long efforts because it’s fairly constant at your aerobic threshold although power will change significantly with training.

Learn to pedal faster because higher cadences are less fatiguing. The hour record is usually set at over 100 RPM for this reason. A cadence field on your bike computer is a useful reminder when you’ve been off your bike for a while and your legs are sluggish.

If there are hills on those 23 miles, eat less and exercise more. You’re too fat to climb quickly if you can’t see your abs.

With a decent aerobic base, you can probably manage up to 4 hours riding without food which is a half a pound of fat. Eating 1/3 of your energy on long rides can be sufficient, with a 200 mile ride using up a pound. Accounting for metabolic efficiency, assume 1 kilojoule out is 1 kcal in.

Use lower gears so you don’t need to exceed your aerobic threshold on hills because doing so produces a sticky shift in your energy substrate utilization to favor glycogen with its depletion causing hunger and eating.

Andrew Coggan’s _Training and Racing with a Power Meter_ and Joe Friel’s _Cyclist’s Training Bible_ are good starting points. The Slowtwitch Forums and the Wattage Google Group are relevant online resources.

Kirbentech

I'm shorter and lighter than you, but still not very fast. I did seven weeks of TrainerRoad and throughout the plan, I kept wondering how much difference it was making. Between losing weight, going through the program, etc., my power went up, and even though the workouts were tough, it didn't feel like a chore. One benefit of losing weight was that I could breathe better when riding in the drops. I hated my knees hitting my stomach... Almost all of my training was 'base', and it didn't seem like that would help much, but it really does make you go longer at a higher rate. Let us know how things progress!

pullings

Excellent "to-the-point" article. This should be stickied in this forum AND the fitness/diet forum. :-)
There are lots of articles that go into various drawn-out theories on fitness strategies, but few authors (I have not found one) have been able to put it all together.
This is missing in most: guidance on establishing one's fitness baseline(s) along with metrics to measure/compare (and tools used) progress has been a critical component of my own progression. I had it all wrong in my younger days......it took me 30 years to figure out that in order to run fast I needed to train slow 70+% of the time! Now I can only run once a week. Overtraining injuries over the years and old age has taken it's toll. Biking has been a lifesaver for me.....and relatively speaking I'm a much faster biker than I ever was a runner.
Thanks.
P

lonnieji

It really comes down to time in the saddle but I am 5'5' and 192lbs. I am currently doing 18-19mph on group rides and that is 35-50 milers. I have ridden for 30 years and have gone up and down in fitness. Last year I was out of shape and 16.5-17mph was about all I could muster. Decided to put in the miles and have gotten faster. Presently doing 150-175 miles/week. I will say that you can probably achieve speed quicker by doing intervals 1-2x per week. If there is a group that does criterium racing, they likely have a night each week as practice. Try the beginner group and just go out and do as much of the race as you can. Do that for 4-6 weeks in a row and you will be faster.

Find a group that is a little faster and willing to wait for you at specified meeting points if you fall off.

If you're primarily riding on the road make sure you don't have a big knobby tires that are holding you back. Get slicks that are 28-32mm wide and that will help.

If you can get on Bicycling magazine's website and they have lots of training tips