WalksOn2Wheels

In some cases, you can release the housing from the stop and pull them away to clean the cables, I've done it a lot on customer bikes, but certainly not always. But hey, get this, on a bike with fully internal cables YOU DON'T HAVE TO CLEAN CABLES.

Let me try to say this again, because I'm getting the impression that some of you have never actually worked on bikes: Exposed cables and keeping just those exposed parts clean is not the issue, it's the grime and dirt that gets pulled into the housing, the place we just established you are not generally able to get inside and clean. Stuff sits there, the cable corrodes and gets sticky. I have worked on many, many bikes. I NEVER came across a cable in an internally cabled bike that was corroded and sticking inside the housing. Exposed cables? All the freaking time.

Is it more of a PITA to install? Yes. Is there a benefit? Not really, unless you like changing cables twice a year.

69chevy

You must have not worked on many Spec Transitions? Cables freeze a lot.

Slackerprince

Debatable in the 41.

S

NealH

Linked is a scathing review of the CAAD 12 by Velonews. While I do think carbon has long superceded aluminum (and steel) in most road bike performance and feel venues, aluminum will likely long have a place due to its low cost and respectable value. A lot of the higher tech carbon offerings have gotten hideously expensive.

Cannondale wants us to join the cult of aluminum ? but we're not ready - VeloNews.com

Mickey2

I so badly want a lugged frame of Reynold 951 tubing!!! ...neither aluminum nor carbon...

WalksOn2Wheels

I apologize: ANY tri bike will have sticky cables. Triathletes sweat, drip all sorts of nasty water and piss on their bikes while hardly ever cleaning them. They are harsher than a northern winter. That's why when a tri-bike rolls into the shop, you can feel the stomachs hit the floor in the shop area.

But no, I've never had nasty cables on any road, MTB or cross bike that I've worked on with internal cables.

EDIT: The only time we replaced FD's were on tri bikes. They were the only ones who managed to entirely freeze up the pivots on the FD. Amazing the damage triathletes manage.

WhyFi

Something tells me that business savvy isn't a strength of yours.

WalksOn2Wheels

I had to look up the cable routing on that specific bike as I did not work at a Specialized shop and rarely saw those. That particular design is extremely awful. All the cables go directly into the frame right below where a person's head would be in the aero position. So every last bit of sweat off of their chin would drop onto the cables and carry all that salty solution right into the frame to sit on the cables. Awful.

StanSeven

Pretty interesting and completly objective review. The two things aluminum always had going for it is inexpensive and light. However the articles lists the CAAD line weights ranging from 14.8 to 18.8lbs. That's without pedals, cages and computer. So they are 15.5 lbs in the most expensive to 19.5 lbs for a bike ready to ride! Not very light and a little less than good steel bikes.

McBTC

Surprisingly strong opinions here about cables here...

69chevy

That's a strange conclusion to draw from a true statement.

Carbon bikes involve way more manual labor than alloy and involve many more layers of "trade secrets".

How much is left to our imaginations.

This means that even if the material costs for the alloy frame are $50 and the carbon materials are $100, the carbon frame can still sell for 3x more. Why?

The carbon bike requires 10 extra hrs of $5.00/hr labor and the process is "secret"

For $50 of labor, and $50 for more expensive material, the price is $3k higher since the pros ride it and the cyclists want it.

It's a terrific business model for the companies selling.

black_box 

Which steel bikes do you have in mind?

Deontologist

I don't think building a carbon bike necessarily involves more manual labor; it just requires a different kind of labor. With metal bikes you need skilled welders - they're the ones doing the majority of the manual labor.

With carbon bikes you need people to cut the prepreg carbon fabric into the appropriate sizes and shapes. Some of the pieces are as small as a postage stamp. You also need someone to apply epoxy. Once everything's in the mold it's cooked and compressed and there you go, you have a carbon frame.

If anything I'd say that building a carbon bike is EASIER since you don't need to go to welding school to know how to a) cut and b) apply epoxy. I would even say it's less labor intensive as cutting fabric and applying epoxy doesn't sound as hard as welding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT4yS5wTkY0

WhyFi

lol. @Bob Dopolina

gregf83 

When they build these carbon frames do they hold the carbon between their toes or might their be some tooling and other costs involved?

McBTC

Good point -- I doubt an 853 bike frame, for example, is lighter than an alloy frame, since neither probably comes n at much more than 4-5 lbs total weight. Felt's Frame Kit FA, custom Butted 7005 aluminum frame comes in at 4.75 lbs and that includes a carbon fork.

69chevy

The tooling cancels out.

Hydroforming aluminum requires as much tooling as casting a bike in a mold.

The labor difference is in the layup of the carbon fiber sheets.

PepeM

Manufacturing is hardly ever the main cost driver.

halfspeed

Steel is like vinyl records. In both cases hipsters and deluded retro grouches convince themselves it's "better" and will ensure the existence of a small market indefinitely.

StanSeven

There aren't many, or maybe none, complete steel bikes sold as a complete package. But there are many good steel frames that can either be purchased as complete builds or allow the buyer to build up. I have a Waterford with nothing special that weighs 18.2 lbs.

Stucky

Or maybe those of us who have sampled the various offerings, just come to the realization that steel/AL/Ti > CF. No comp[anies I know of are sponsoring pro riders to ride steel bikes, and yet there is a growing demand for them. By contrast, they have to sponsor pros with their CF bikes to generate a demand for them.

If you didn't catch it in other posys of mine: I'm selling my CF Venge....gonna replace it with steel. Currently riding a CF and Al bike. both of equal quality, I like the AL bike better; and remembering my years on steel- even cheap steel- I just miss it. I tried carbon- I had to at least give it a shot and see. Verdict: Meh....

bt

yea but dark side of the moon on vinyl.....

r8dr_rider

And the Allez

Leinster

Simultaneous with Wizard of Oz on Betamax.


With all companies going with aero bikes, or aero lightweight bikes, with comfort geometry in their carbon lines, if Cannondale are serious about keeping Al alive will we see oval tubing and tight clearances on the CAAD13?

halfspeed

.. is way worse than DSOTM in digital surround.