Frame Saver?
10-07-18, 09:53 AM
#1
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Frame Saver?
I have a Specialized Sequoia and have not had it out in the rain yet, stored in my basement. I do not ride it often but thinking about making this my morning ride and keeping lights and the larger tires on it for fall-winter riding.
I am thinking I need to do something to keep it from rusting and wondering what you guys think of Frame Saver, is it worth the time to strip bike down and use this product?
Is there an alternative you can buy locally?
Having had the bike a year is it too late to do even though it has not been in bad weather?
I am thinking I need to do something to keep it from rusting and wondering what you guys think of Frame Saver, is it worth the time to strip bike down and use this product?
Is there an alternative you can buy locally?
Having had the bike a year is it too late to do even though it has not been in bad weather?
10-07-18, 10:05 AM
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It's never too late to try to slow down rust. Frame Saver does a good enough job in coating the frame's interior that it's stood the test of time in the marketplace. There are other products that do much the same (ProGold Steel Frame Protector is one I have used). Even simple oils dripped into the frame work better then nothing.
Additional comments- The worst thing is when water gets inside without a way to get out. So tubes with single vent holes are bad. Either no vents or two per tube is the way. (This is coming from a hobby frame builder). Adding drip holes on the BB shell bottom is a common way to help this out as water will enter the frame past the seat post and through the headset. No rust preventer will last forever so periodic reapplications is a good idea, I apply Frame Saver to my bikes every few years. Andy
Additional comments- The worst thing is when water gets inside without a way to get out. So tubes with single vent holes are bad. Either no vents or two per tube is the way. (This is coming from a hobby frame builder). Adding drip holes on the BB shell bottom is a common way to help this out as water will enter the frame past the seat post and through the headset. No rust preventer will last forever so periodic reapplications is a good idea, I apply Frame Saver to my bikes every few years. Andy
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AndrewRStewart
AndrewRStewart
10-07-18, 10:22 AM
#3
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Spray it down from top to bottom in wd40. That’s what I do. I learned that trick one day. When I asked my father why he was spraying down the weight lifting set he had outside.
Last edited by AtNjineer; 10-07-18 at 11:01 AM.
10-07-18, 12:41 PM
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It's never too late to try to slow down rust. Frame Saver does a good enough job in coating the frame's interior that it's stood the test of time in the marketplace. There are other products that do much the same (ProGold Steel Frame Protector is one I have used). Even simple oils dripped into the frame work better then nothing.
Additional comments- The worst thing is when water gets inside without a way to get out. So tubes with single vent holes are bad. Either no vents or two per tube is the way. (This is coming from a hobby frame builder). Adding drip holes on the BB shell bottom is a common way to help this out as water will enter the frame past the seat post and through the headset. No rust preventer will last forever so periodic reapplications is a good idea, I apply Frame Saver to my bikes every few years. Andy
Additional comments- The worst thing is when water gets inside without a way to get out. So tubes with single vent holes are bad. Either no vents or two per tube is the way. (This is coming from a hobby frame builder). Adding drip holes on the BB shell bottom is a common way to help this out as water will enter the frame past the seat post and through the headset. No rust preventer will last forever so periodic reapplications is a good idea, I apply Frame Saver to my bikes every few years. Andy
10-07-18, 02:58 PM
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Frame Saver can't hurt, but I think the whole idea of internal rust is overstated. My daily all-weather commuter is 45 years old and shows no evidence of internal corrosion. I wipe it down after a wet ride and strip it down once a year for cleaning and lubing. That's about it. I have other bikes as old as late 60s and my "new" one is an early 90s, although they are not ridden as much. Never used a product like Frame Saver and never had an issue, probably because they are all garaged. I have found that condensation is a big issue primarily in spring and fall. Garage gets cold due to seasonal weather and then you get hit with a warm front with humid air. All cold surfaces will condense water.
Again Frame Saver can't hurt, and even though I have not needed it, I may give it a try.
Again Frame Saver can't hurt, and even though I have not needed it, I may give it a try.
10-07-18, 03:16 PM
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The way I look at it is that I have enough trouble coating the bottom of a frying pan with hot oil when I can see what I’m doing. I can’t imagine being able to get anywhere close to complete coverage trying to coat the inside of tubes essentially blind. My guess is all one can get by using such a product is a false sense of security when no security is needed in the first place. My 40 year old steel bike has commuted in the rain, toured in the rain, been stored in a carport, a basement and now a garage and it is still going strong. And while in San Diego now it lived for 13 years in humid St. Louis. I have chosen to save my $ and my time and it is a frame that is very dear to me, not a beater.
10-07-18, 07:08 PM
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Frame Saver can't hurt, but I think the whole idea of internal rust is overstated. My daily all-weather commuter is 45 years old and shows no evidence of internal corrosion. I wipe it down after a wet ride and strip it down once a year for cleaning and lubing. That's about it. I have other bikes as old as late 60s and my "new" one is an early 90s, although they are not ridden as much. Never used a product like Frame Saver and never had an issue, probably because they are all garaged. I have found that condensation is a big issue primarily in spring and fall. Garage gets cold due to seasonal weather and then you get hit with a warm front with humid air. All cold surfaces will condense water.
Again Frame Saver can't hurt, and even though I have not needed it, I may give it a try.
Again Frame Saver can't hurt, and even though I have not needed it, I may give it a try.
The bikes have usually been pretty well exposured and often neglected with lower cost (read thicker tubing walls) construction. The memorable excepting was a club friend's Terry (actually a Stowe but decaled as a Terry). Built with Tange Prestige tubing and used for a number of Rochester winters. The top tube was horizontal with a vent hole in the seat tube. Berry asked me to update it with braze ones and such. We sent it off to the painter and got the call from them after they discovered a few pin holes in the top tube's underside after they chemically stripped it and applied the initial primer. Barry decided to have me replace the top tube. When I cut it out there was a line of deep corrosion running the tube's length, about 1/4" wide, right at the tube's lowest point. We surmised that water (in all seasons) had seeped into the top tube, past the post, and didn't have any chance to drain or evaporate quickly. The bike was parked in his garage on it's wheels/tires as it was his favorite ride and therefore readily available. Back in the early 1990s, when this bike was made, rust prevention wasn't a thing for most people. I did the tube replacement after taking time to check out all the other areas that rust can form. There was some here and there but none like what the top tube had. Andy
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AndrewRStewart
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10-08-18, 02:29 AM
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Framesaver may not be necessary, but at the very least it can't hurt and adds negligable weight.
Check out this thread (I wrote the first reply) for my boilerplate response on Frame Saver. Amsoil HDMP (Heavy Duty Metal Protector) is generally thought to be the same stuff as Frame Saver, and far cheaper.
Check out this thread (I wrote the first reply) for my boilerplate response on Frame Saver. Amsoil HDMP (Heavy Duty Metal Protector) is generally thought to be the same stuff as Frame Saver, and far cheaper.
Here is my numbered task list for whenever I apply HDMP to a frame. A skinny red spray-extender nozzle is necessary. I don't iterate the fork instructions here, but it'll be pretty obvious after going through the main frame steps.
1. cover chainstay holes by rear dropout (unless want to leave open for spray into chainstays)
2. plug top of headtube to block top tube juncture
3. spray 4 seconds into top tube via seat tube opening
4. rotate frame a bit, then plug top of seat tube, rotate frame more
5. spray into head tube, rotate, plug bottom of head tube
6. spray through bottom bracket into chainstays (leaving space for aerosol to come out), seat tube, and downtube
7. plug bottom bracket and rotate frame
seatstays and rear brake bridge (and maybe chainstay bridge) depending on where the holes are
2. plug top of headtube to block top tube juncture
3. spray 4 seconds into top tube via seat tube opening
4. rotate frame a bit, then plug top of seat tube, rotate frame more
5. spray into head tube, rotate, plug bottom of head tube
6. spray through bottom bracket into chainstays (leaving space for aerosol to come out), seat tube, and downtube
7. plug bottom bracket and rotate frame
seatstays and rear brake bridge (and maybe chainstay bridge) depending on where the holes are
10-08-18, 06:05 AM
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It's never too late to try to slow down rust. Frame Saver does a good enough job in coating the frame's interior that it's stood the test of time in the marketplace. There are other products that do much the same (ProGold Steel Frame Protector is one I have used). Even simple oils dripped into the frame work better then nothing.
Additional comments- The worst thing is when water gets inside without a way to get out. So tubes with single vent holes are bad. Either no vents or two per tube is the way. (This is coming from a hobby frame builder). Adding drip holes on the BB shell bottom is a common way to help this out as water will enter the frame past the seat post and through the headset. No rust preventer will last forever so periodic reapplications is a good idea, I apply Frame Saver to my bikes every few years. Andy
Additional comments- The worst thing is when water gets inside without a way to get out. So tubes with single vent holes are bad. Either no vents or two per tube is the way. (This is coming from a hobby frame builder). Adding drip holes on the BB shell bottom is a common way to help this out as water will enter the frame past the seat post and through the headset. No rust preventer will last forever so periodic reapplications is a good idea, I apply Frame Saver to my bikes every few years. Andy
I'll also throw my 2 coppers in, and agree with @AtNjineer about the WD40. I'm a retired machinist. Every summer the shop closed up for a two week holiday, and it was usually during the most-humid time of the year. After shutting everything down, we'd clean all the machines and spray every bare metal surface with a liberal coating of WD40. upon returning after the two weeks, there's be a nice film on the surfaces, which we'd spray on more WD and wipe off.
Starrett M1 works even better than WD40.
If you want some serious rust protection, use LPS3, which you can get twice as much for the price of Framesaver.
I still keep a can of Framesaver around, because some customers request it, and I still like to believe that JP gets some $ out of every can.
10-08-18, 07:23 AM
#10
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I should be flogged with a red spray extender tube... I use LPS-3 on the frame tubes I store, as they wait their turn for a frame build. It is less stinky then Frame Saver is. I've not yet tried Frame Saver on the tube's OD so can't speak to any wetting out/spreadability/drying time as compared to LPS-3. But one aspect that Frame Saver claims is the ability for it's vapor to coat tube ID surfaces that the wet and flowing stuff doesn't reach. (I do rotate the frame/fork through various angles to give the wet stuff the best chance to coat the inside nocks and crannies). The last comment is I've read of farmers spraying their implements with a kerosene/wax solution. To slow down the rust as the harvester (or whatever) sits in the north forty waiting it's season to be used. Andy
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AndrewRStewart
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10-08-18, 08:15 AM
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+1 Andy
I'll also throw my 2 coppers in, and agree with @AtNjineer about the WD40. I'm a retired machinist. Every summer the shop closed up for a two week holiday, and it was usually during the most-humid time of the year. After shutting everything down, we'd clean all the machines and spray every bare metal surface with a liberal coating of WD40. upon returning after the two weeks, there's be a nice film on the surfaces, which we'd spray on more WD and wipe off.
Starrett M1 works even better than WD40.
If you want some serious rust protection, use LPS3, which you can get twice as much for the price of Framesaver.
I still keep a can of Framesaver around, because some customers request it, and I still like to believe that JP gets some $ out of every can.
I'll also throw my 2 coppers in, and agree with @AtNjineer about the WD40. I'm a retired machinist. Every summer the shop closed up for a two week holiday, and it was usually during the most-humid time of the year. After shutting everything down, we'd clean all the machines and spray every bare metal surface with a liberal coating of WD40. upon returning after the two weeks, there's be a nice film on the surfaces, which we'd spray on more WD and wipe off.
Starrett M1 works even better than WD40.
If you want some serious rust protection, use LPS3, which you can get twice as much for the price of Framesaver.
I still keep a can of Framesaver around, because some customers request it, and I still like to believe that JP gets some $ out of every can.
There's a review of many corrosion/rust inhibitors that's pretty interesting here: https://www.thehulltruth.com/sportfi...or-sprays.html
At least from that article, LPS3 is likely longer-lasting than WD40.
10-08-18, 09:09 AM
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[QUOTE=WizardOfBoz;20605683]FWIW, The "WD" in WD40 stands for "Water Displacer". It's good for getting water out of places by displacement.
There's a review of many corrosion/rust inhibitors that's pretty interesting here: https://www.thehulltruth.com/sportfi...or-sprays.html
At least from that article, LPS3 is likely longer-lasting than WD40.[/QUOTE]
My experience bears this out. LPS-3 has more "solids" that don't evaporate off over time. IIRC LPS-3 is a "wax" of sorts. Andy
There's a review of many corrosion/rust inhibitors that's pretty interesting here: https://www.thehulltruth.com/sportfi...or-sprays.html
At least from that article, LPS3 is likely longer-lasting than WD40.[/QUOTE]
My experience bears this out. LPS-3 has more "solids" that don't evaporate off over time. IIRC LPS-3 is a "wax" of sorts. Andy
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AndrewRStewart
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10-08-18, 02:10 PM
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I mentioned Cosmoline, as it's pretty famous because all of the rifles the US produced for use in WWII and Korea (and I think Viet Nam) were packed in Cosmoline grease. As a long-term preservative/rust preventer, hard to beat.
Because I was curious, I wrote to Cosmoline and asked them if they had a product suitable for bikes. Got this back:
I have to think that this stuff would be pretty good prevening rust in a bike frame. There's a little cost advantage per can over Frame Saver, but the FS can is 4.75 ounces and RP-342 is 12 ounces. If I had two steel bikes to preserve, I'd get the Cosmoline. [On edit: I found that one can of Frame Saver is supposed to be able to do 3-5 frames, according the Amazon product info. So I guess I'd get the cheapest of the two if I was doing one bike. If I was an LBS and was doing multiple bikes I'd get the Cosmoline product. LPS 3 is about 11 bucks for an 11 ounce bottle - same price range and others have found it effective]
BTW, 4.75 oz. is 135 grams. You are supposed to be able to do 3-5 frames with one can. Assuming half of that is volatile, and 3 frames, the "added weight" of framesaver is gonna be about 22 grams or so. So I'm not sure what the "extra weight" people are talking about is...
[Edited to correct weight and allow for multiple frames]
Because I was curious, I wrote to Cosmoline and asked them if they had a product suitable for bikes. Got this back:
Yes, our bestselling Cosmoline RP-342 "Heavy" aerosols would be very effective given the application you described. Additional product information and ordering options can be viewed through the link below:https://www.cosmolinedirect.com/cosm...st-preventive/
BTW, 4.75 oz. is 135 grams. You are supposed to be able to do 3-5 frames with one can. Assuming half of that is volatile, and 3 frames, the "added weight" of framesaver is gonna be about 22 grams or so. So I'm not sure what the "extra weight" people are talking about is...
[Edited to correct weight and allow for multiple frames]
Last edited by WizardOfBoz; 10-09-18 at 07:27 AM.
10-08-18, 03:31 PM
#14
Senior Member
I have recently disassembled and rebuilt two mid-80's bikes. One of them I bought from the original owner who kept it garaged and the other was a trade-in at a bike shop - history unknown. The interior of the BB shell of the first one is shown below - very little rust after 33 years. The second one (35 years old) had a little bit of corrosion in the BB shell and the seat tube - not enough to cause any trouble removing the seat post.
If treating your frame gives you piece of mind then go for it. Otherwise, since your bike is nearly new and you intend to keep it indoors you will probably be fine unless you live next to the ocean or douse your bike in winter-road saltwater.
If treating your frame gives you piece of mind then go for it. Otherwise, since your bike is nearly new and you intend to keep it indoors you will probably be fine unless you live next to the ocean or douse your bike in winter-road saltwater.
10-08-18, 04:38 PM
#15
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I can’t remember where I read it, but it was somewhere that said fogging oil is a suitable store/bought alternative.
10-09-18, 09:58 PM
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10-09-18, 10:26 PM
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Thank you very much for this recommendation.
I can't get Frame Saver in Australia, but I can get Fluid Film.
10-10-18, 07:25 AM
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Protective spray??? - Page 2
10-10-18, 09:29 AM
#21
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What hasn't been talked about (except for my post #10 ) is Frame Savers claim of it's vapor coating surfaces that aren't wetted by the liquid during initial application. Any comments about this aspect? Andy
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AndrewRStewart
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10-10-18, 09:52 AM
#22
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Likes For Wattsup:
10-10-18, 10:46 AM
#23
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Definitely worth the read.
-Tim-
10-10-18, 11:50 AM
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Fluid Film
Corrosion X
WD-40 long term corrosion inhibitor
Showed little or no rust. These products:
Frame Saver
Boeshield T-9
Amsoil Heavy duty metal protector
showed significant rust.
So the experimenter poured battery acid on the test samples! Not sure that strong H2SO4 is a relevant test. But Fluid film was one of the winners before that extreme was tried.
07-24-19, 09:33 PM
#25
Banned.
So is this the stuff Fluid Film you all decided was one of the better ones?
https://www.amazon.com/Lubricant-Cor...XZWP54AKKD49QR
https://www.amazon.com/Lubricant-Cor...XZWP54AKKD49QR