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Old 12-18-18, 07:40 AM
  #5426  
topflightpro
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Originally Posted by pierrej View Post
Taking very good bmx and speed skaters and putting them on bicycles, that and riding is pretty popular over there.

Our situation is a funny one because at the elite end of town our track cycling is going pretty well, but the grassroots are definitely not possibly as a result of the HPU being the near sole reason CA gets Gov funding. It'll be sort of cool having a wind tunnel 5 minutes from my house, but not being on a national team I'll never get to use it 🤔
Where are you located?
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Old 12-18-18, 08:25 AM
  #5427  
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New junior men's kilo record

​https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/cycling/fastest-teen-on-wheels-an-aussie/news-story/2e7d3096f85a437e2023a9c58d2f82e7
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Old 12-30-18, 05:17 AM
  #5428  
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"*While ANT+ can transmit data 4x per second, and Bluetooth SMART 64x per second, current power meters arenít running this fast. Why? It would be too hard on the battery. Most power meters record data closer to once per second. This way, the head unit can essentially enter sleep mode for very brief periods of time, thus prolonging battery life."
https://powermetercity.com/2016/02/1...h-power-meter/

I used to use cycleops speed/cadence bluetooth sensor on my bike to check my speed and cadence using my smartphone.
In my memory, bluetooth(smartphone) data refresh rate was faster than SRM PC7(records 2 per second).
Why don't track sprinters just use bluetooth system to record their data.
Or am I wrong with bluetooth data refresh rate?
Basically, if we have an app that records data 2 per second or more and able to download the data to view in Goldencheetah, that will be best bike computer for track cyclists.

BTW bluetooth sensor I used had trouble reading high cadence, but I could be because of the app.

Last edited by gycho77; 12-30-18 at 05:37 AM.
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Old 12-30-18, 12:29 PM
  #5429  
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I’ll have to check but I think the Huub Wattbike guys are using a pitot tube power sensor that samples 4x/s
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Old 12-30-18, 12:59 PM
  #5430  
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Originally Posted by gycho77 View Post
"*While ANT+ can transmit data 4x per second, and Bluetooth SMART 64x per second, current power meters arenít running this fast. Why? It would be too hard on the battery. Most power meters record data closer to once per second. This way, the head unit can essentially enter sleep mode for very brief periods of time, thus prolonging battery life."
https://powermetercity.com/2016/02/1...h-power-meter/

I used to use cycleops speed/cadence bluetooth sensor on my bike to check my speed and cadence using my smartphone.
In my memory, bluetooth(smartphone) data refresh rate was faster than SRM PC7(records 2 per second).
Why don't track sprinters just use bluetooth system to record their data.
Or am I wrong with bluetooth data refresh rate?
Basically, if we have an app that records data 2 per second or more and able to download the data to view in Goldencheetah, that will be best bike computer for track cyclists.

BTW bluetooth sensor I used had trouble reading high cadence, but I could be because of the app.
It depends on the head unit that receives the data.

You can send 64 readings per second to the head unit, but if the head unit only aggregates the data into 1 second blocks and records that average, then that's all you get to see in the file when you download it.

So, it depends on the head unit more than the sensor.

For example, the Garmin 500 and SRM PowerControl 7 are both ANT+ head units. Using the same speed and cadence sensors, I can send data to both the Garmin and SRM head units. Garmin will record the average of data recorded every second, the SRM every 0.5 seconds.
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Old 12-30-18, 03:01 PM
  #5431  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
It depends on the head unit that receives the data.

You can send 64 readings per second to the head unit, but if the head unit only aggregates the data into 1 second blocks and records that average, then that's all you get to see in the file when you download it.

So, it depends on the head unit more than the sensor.

For example, the Garmin 500 and SRM PowerControl 7 are both ANT+ head units. Using the same speed and cadence sensors, I can send data to both the Garmin and SRM head units. Garmin will record the average of data recorded every second, the SRM every 0.5 seconds.
Thank you that was really to helpful.
I am going to look for iphone app that records more than Garmin and see how it works.
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Old 12-31-18, 07:56 AM
  #5432  
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Hi guys, just been rewatching the UCI junior world champs from Aigle and noticed that in the first semi final sprint round between Hoffman and Cornish, Hoffman leaves the sprinters lane in turn 3 of the final lap. (See attached photo)

i was of the impression that leaving the sprinters lane,m after the sprint is initiated or in final 200m is a DQ. Have I got this wrong? Or does it need to be an ďintentionalĒ move rather than momentum taking you up track?
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Old 12-31-18, 08:41 AM
  #5433  
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I believe that the key factor is if it adversely affected the trailing rider(s). For example, if the trailing rider were attempting to pass and the offending swerve (intentional or not) caused him to let off the gas or adjust his path.
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Old 01-01-19, 04:47 AM
  #5434  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
I believe that the key factor is if it adversely affected the trailing rider(s). For example, if the trailing rider were attempting to pass and the offending swerve (intentional or not) caused him to let off the gas or adjust his path.
In my knowledge, that is the general intention of the rule. But as anyone knows, or will learn, it depends on the commissaries. There have been some high level races affected by hard core adjudication of this rule where such a move is a guaranteed DQ, adversely affected rider or not.

Iím not a fan of the ďnanny stateĒ style of commissairing and prefer to just see racing played out......within reason of course
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Old 01-01-19, 03:01 PM
  #5435  
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Ok that makes more sense - I have been super paranoid about even touching the red line during my sprints /Keirin events, maybe I can relax a bit!
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Old 01-01-19, 03:30 PM
  #5436  
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Originally Posted by Kaben View Post
Ok that makes more sense - I have been super paranoid about even touching the red line during my sprints /Keirin events, maybe I can relax a bit!
i mean, it really sucks to have a win taken away from you for a sprint lane violation (i'm guessing - i've never had it happen to me). recently, i was helping a young rider trackside, and i watched this rider lose a national championship (and a guaranteed trip to Worlds) for a very small sprint lane violation when this rider had the win in the bag - a very tough way to have one very small error cost an entire omnium. unless you can be 100% certain what the comm will call, i'd stay paranoid.

the current wording of the rule is (per USAC):
2F8 (c)
If the leader is below the sprinters line, he or she must stay below the sprinters line until the finish and all following riders must pass on the right and outside the sprinters lane. However, the leader may come out of the sprinters lane if he or she is so far ahead that there is no hindrance to opponents;


So it's not so much about intent as it is the effect. One can unintentionally come out of the lane and hinder an opponent coming around - relegation; or, one can intentionally come out of the lane, not hinder an opponent who's still behind you, and get no relegation.

A reminder, too, that this is "Once the sprint has begun." Former wording, I think, was "once the sprint is engaged." A lot of places use the 200m line as the place where this rule starts, but that's erroneous. How do you know if a sprint has begun? Well. That's a good question, and one of those situations where writing any kind of specificity into the rule is going to lead to a worse rule than a vague one.
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Old 01-06-19, 12:13 AM
  #5437  
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Can bike straps go onto road pedals? Im specifically looking at the pedals on the aventon cordoba (limited info.) and hold fast straps. Thanks
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Old 01-06-19, 09:51 AM
  #5438  
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I think your stock pedals on the Cordoba are going to be platforms. Those won't be suitable for track use (or much more than riding around town in tennis shoes for that matter)
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Old 01-06-19, 10:40 AM
  #5439  
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Originally Posted by quidge23 View Post
Can bike straps go onto road pedals? Im specifically looking at the pedals on the aventon cordoba (limited info.) and hold fast straps. Thanks
You could use toe clips and straps. I used to use them on road and track decades ago in combination with slotted shoe cleats.
They were similar to this: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Wellgo-Tr...raps/344423621

However I suggest you buy a set of clipless pedals.
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Old 01-19-19, 06:39 AM
  #5440  
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Opinion poll: If you could only buy one or the other, do you think there is more value in a front disc or a 5 spoke front wheel (such as FFWD - probably couldnít afford an io)

Other information to consider - I already own a 60mm deep front wheel ( DT Swiss). I predominantly race sprint, but may look to start training kilo /500m sprint ( for masters) this year.

Im leaning toward the front disc being more useful for setting f200 qualification times? Or is there really that much benefit to a 5 spoke vs aero spoked wheel? ( realise something like an 808 would be better but I already have the 60mm DT.)

Thanks for for your thoughts.
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Old 01-19-19, 08:10 AM
  #5441  
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Question 1 - indoors only I assume? If you're going to be outdoors at all then the disc doesn't really make sense.
Question 2 - stiffness. A 5 spoke is going to be stiffer than basically anything else. Something to think about

5 spokes generally aren't all that aerodynamic (relatively to 3 spokes or deep section "normal" rims) and have such a presence mainly because a.) stiff and b.) the iO looks cool and they gave them to basically everyone who'd ride them for ~20 years.

Everything you've mentioned will be sufficiently fast. In my own tunnel testing, the difference between an 80mm wheel, trispoke, disc and 5 spoke was a handful of watts. (5 from best to worst) the 5 spoke was the worst.
Tyre to rim profile matching is probably going to be more important than the wheel itself.

Just my thoughts though
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Old 01-19-19, 10:24 PM
  #5442  
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Have you been racing? If so, how far behind 1st/2nd/3rd are you?

If you’ve got a decent amount of time to make up yet, your money and time could be better spent elsewhere. Bike bling is cool, but such a step is what will get you that last LITTLE bit to the top. You could probably spend less money on some aero wind tunnel time and net much bigger gains
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Old 01-20-19, 04:11 AM
  #5443  
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I recently got a Garmin edge 500 because of my powertap hub.
My friend who owned garmin 500 said that I can view Max Cadence, but I donít see the option.
does anyone know how to view Max Cadence in Garmin 500.

thanks
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Old 01-20-19, 07:03 AM
  #5444  
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Thanks for the breakdown Morelock, very helpful.
It would definitely be for indoor use only if I got a front disc. Mostly for big competitions. Been offered a front zipp 900 with ceramic speed bearings for approx £650. I could get a front FFWD 5 spoke for a shade more but wondering if the 5 spoke is really much better than the 60mm rim I have.
I know itís not something I need but would be nice to have decent kit for race events to eek the most out of my performances.


Originally Posted by brawlo View Post
Have you been racing? If so, how far behind 1st/2nd/3rd are you?

If youíve got a decent amount of time to make up yet, your money and time could be better spent elsewhere. Bike bling is cool, but such a step is what will get you that last LITTLE bit to the top. You could probably spend less money on some aero wind tunnel time and net much bigger gains
Hi Brawo, I have been racing only since October but Iíve not got near the podium in our sprinters league yet. Had a couple of 10th positions ( field of about 25 riders).
Theres definitely a lot more I need to do with regards to training and Iím in the process of sorting out a coach to plan my training properly. Itís pricey but worth it I think.
Target events for me start in September. Other than that itís one sprinters league race per month.
Tunnel testing is something I have considered but I Wonder if itís worth doing before I have got my standing starts nailed first or enough data to say what I find my weaknesses to be a in the kilo/500.
For sprinting I have a clearer idea of where my issues lie and the f200 times are one of them. I do much better in the match sprints than I do the qualifications.



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Old 01-20-19, 09:23 AM
  #5445  
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^ I think it just depends. There's almost certainly a benefit moving to the disc from the 60mm/5 spoke. That said, the 5 spoke is a lot more versatile (can use it in events that don't allow discs, etc) and the stiffness factor does matter for *some* people. That said, I'd guess the 60mm/5 spoke are very close speaking just aerodynamically.
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Old 01-20-19, 03:25 PM
  #5446  
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Slightly tangential question, just realised that the front zipp 900 disc Iím looking at is at least 12 years old ( think they stopped production in 2007).
Would you guys buy/ride a disc that is that old? Itís mint condition externally but As I understand it they are filled with a foam substance - would this break down over time and reduce structural integrity do you think?

i do have a habit of over thinking equipment durability as a heavier rider ( 100kg at the moment).
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Old 01-20-19, 06:04 PM
  #5447  
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Originally Posted by Kaben View Post
Slightly tangential question, just realised that the front zipp 900 disc Iím looking at is at least 12 years old ( think they stopped production in 2007).
Would you guys buy/ride a disc that is that old? Itís mint condition externally but As I understand it they are filled with a foam substance - would this break down over time and reduce structural integrity do you think?

i do have a habit of over thinking equipment durability as a heavier rider ( 100kg at the moment).
Why not ask your question to Zip?

In the aerospace industry foam materials are often used as a manufacturing aid and removed before flight - at least in filament wound structures. I doubt foam adds any structural strength to your wheel.
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Old 01-20-19, 06:49 PM
  #5448  
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Id happily ride the zipp disc, I used to have a Zipp 950 disc before I upgraded to ffwds. But I would say that it seems very overpriced. I sold my zipp 950 For $400aud (same I bought it for) and it was in mint condition.

and don't not get the gear you want because you aren't deemed fast enough. Be aware that there are going to be better and cheaper ways of getting faster, but if you want to have the flash gear then go for it. It's your money. It's your hobby.
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Old 01-21-19, 08:45 AM
  #5449  
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The faom in a Zipp disk is structural, but it is fine if some of it is dented or broken down. It acts as a spacer between the two skins. The skins bear the torsional and gravitational loads. The foam just acts as a stabilizer to make the skins, rim, and hub act as a rigid box structure. By having a rigid spacer in between the carbon skins, one will be in tension and the other compression. This keeps both skins from being in compression as side loads areaput on it, which would make for a weak disc, as carbon is relatively weak in compression. Think of an I-beam. The central truss spaces out the top and bottom which are in tension (bottom) and compression (top) to support loads.
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Old 01-21-19, 01:41 PM
  #5450  
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Originally Posted by gycho77 View Post
I recently got a Garmin edge 500 because of my powertap hub.
My friend who owned garmin 500 said that I can view Max Cadence, but I donít see the option.
does anyone know how to view Max Cadence in Garmin 500.

thanks
I had the same problem, and then found out that while you can't see it on the display, it will calculate and is visible when you download the data and use Golden Cheetah
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