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Old 01-07-19, 02:30 PM
  #2276  
brawlo
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Originally Posted by Kaben View Post
The video is a good idea but needs tweaking to make it user friendly.
At the moment you couldn't run it without having the UpUYpUp plan open in-front of you as well. It doesn't say what gear you need for some of the intervals until you start it.

For example at 14.06 it goes into a rest period and just says "next, seated rolling", but nothing about gear selection. That only appears once the interval has started.

Hope that helps
On my interval timer that I use for UpUpUp sessions I label the rest intervals with that info for that reason, so I know what is coming up
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Old 01-07-19, 05:59 PM
  #2277  
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https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/usada-nail-a-90-year-old-cyclist-but-aren-t-there-bigger-fish-to-fry-1.3749172?mode=amp
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Old 01-08-19, 08:22 AM
  #2278  
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I'm sort of conflicted on that.

On the one hand, it seems pretty ridiculous to spend the money to test, multiple times, a 90 year old who is the only competitor in his field.

On the other hand, if you are truly committed to removing doping from the sport, you kind of have to test everyone.
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Old 01-08-19, 09:38 AM
  #2279  
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Originally Posted by topflightpro View Post
I'm sort of conflicted on that.

On the one hand, it seems pretty ridiculous to spend the money to test, multiple times, a 90 year old who is the only competitor in his field.

On the other hand, if you are truly committed to removing doping from the sport, you kind of have to test everyone.
There's random testing at Master's Nats. And, there's required testing (I think) for new world records. So he was probably tested without being specifically targeted for testing.

I think the resolution of this case is just - stripped title but no ban.
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Old 01-09-19, 03:13 AM
  #2280  
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Yeah, this is a weird one.

Let's rearrange the order of the paragraphs and it makes sense.

Situation 1:

“Grove, 90, tested positive for epitrenbolone, which is a metabolite of the prohibited substance trenbolone, as the result of an in-competition urine sample he provided on July 11th, 2018 after setting a world record at the Masters Track National Championships.
During Usada’s investigation into the circumstances of his case, Grove provided the agency with information which established that the source of his positive test was more likely than not caused by contaminated meat consumed the evening before competing on July 11th, 2018. Prior to consuming the meat, Grove had tested negative for prohibited substances during an in-competition test on July 10th, 2018.”
July 10: Set a world record. Get drug tested. Pass.

July 11: Set a world record. Get drug tested. Traces of epitrenbolone are present. Fail.

What happened between the July 10 test and the July 11 test? Steak Dinner.

That's unfortunate, but it happened. But, at least he has the July 10 sample as rock-solid proof that the ingestion happened between the July 10 test and the July 11 test.

I don't think steroids can work in less than 24 hours, so it stands to reason that he did get it from a nice steak dinner.


Situation 2:

Now...Here's what's messed up. During the investigation, it seems that he handed over whatever supplements he had at the house in a "full disclosure" kinda way...and they tested the stuff in the bottles and found clomiphene.

“While investigating the source of his positive test, it was also determined that a supplement Grove was using prior to July 11th, 2018 was contaminated with clomiphene.


So, in an effort to try to explain Situation 1, he digs a deeper hole and creates Situation 2.

Clomifene is sometimes used in the treatment of male hypogonadism as an alternative to testosterone replacement therapy. It has been found to increase testosterone levels by 2- to 2.5-fold in hypogonadal men.
- Wikipedia

Situation 2 sounds like some tainted "Be Awesome" stack from a supplement store.

It's well-known that supplement makers will add stuff like this to pre-made "stacks" in order to boost gains. They will list innocuous things on the label and add real stuff inside to boost gains (and chatter about the product). It's a weird and effed-up game.

There is a Frontline documentary about this that every athlete (at any level) should watch: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/f...ts-and-safety/

What 91 year old Grove has going for him is:
- He's 91. Who the hell cheats at age 91 when you are usually the only person in your age group.
- He was the only person in his age group in all 3 events at Nationals
- He took tests back to back. Passed #1, ate dinner, failed #2. He can probably provide a receipt from the steak dinner if needed.
- (I assume that) he has a bottle of a supplement that contains Clomifene that does not list it in the ingredients on the label.

This explains the slap on the wrist warning.

Here's the real kicker...what if an elite or "fast master" were in a similar situation? They may not get the benefit of the doubt.
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Old 01-09-19, 03:22 AM
  #2281  
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I think, from USADA's point of view, Grove doesn't deserve to keep his records and titles (even though he was the only participant) because he did have at least one PED in his system during competition and that automatically disqualifies you. The severity of the punishment is determined by the intent to cheat (or lack thereof).

It's reasonable that Grove didn't intend to cheat for the reasons stated above.

For me, the big takeaways are:

- Don't mess with pre-made stacks from supplement stores/websites.
- How the hell do I not eat meat??
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Old 01-10-19, 12:00 PM
  #2282  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
I think, from USADA's point of view, Grove doesn't deserve to keep his records and titles (even though he was the only participant) because he did have at least one PED in his system during competition and that automatically disqualifies you. The severity of the punishment is determined by the intent to cheat (or lack thereof).

It's reasonable that Grove didn't intend to cheat for the reasons stated above.

For me, the big takeaways are:

- Don't mess with pre-made stacks from supplement stores/websites.
- How the hell do I not eat meat??
Here are comments from USADA: https://www.velonews.com/2019/01/news/usada-ceo-90-year-olds-world-record-triggered-doping-test_482720?utm_source=VeloNews&utm_campaign=e1bc6c335a-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_01_09_11_34&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_7cbc7e57b1-e1bc6c335a-79498065&mc_cid=e1bc6c335a&mc_eid=b6273a20e9

Last edited by 700wheel; 01-11-19 at 05:04 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old 01-11-19, 05:02 PM
  #2283  
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So, do you guys really think that it's reasonable for amateur athletes to be held to the same WADA testing standards as elites/pros? Should amateurs really have to worry about trace amounts of metabolites from some banned substance being in their food just to participate in their hobby? I can't help but wonder if the testing standards for amateurs shouldn't be relaxed a bit so that they can catch the blatant cheaters without testing for tiny trace amounts of every possible banned substance (many of which have questionable benefits at best).

I just find it a little absurd that this 90 year old is getting called a cheater or worse by people who didn't even bother to read the details of his case, just because he had liver for dinner the night before a race.
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Old 01-11-19, 05:25 PM
  #2284  
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Originally Posted by jsk View Post
So, do you guys really think that it's reasonable for amateur athletes to be held to the same WADA testing standards as elites/pros? Should amateurs really have to worry about trace amounts of metabolites from some banned substance being in their food just to participate in their hobby? I can't help but wonder if the testing standards for amateurs shouldn't be relaxed a bit so that they can catch the blatant cheaters without testing for tiny trace amounts of every possible banned substance (many of which have questionable benefits at best).

I just find it a little absurd that this 90 year old is getting called a cheater or worse by people who didn't even bother to read the details of his case, just because he had liver for dinner the night before a race.
Depends on the league in which you race and the stakes at hand (pun intended). ATRA is a national track racing governing body that doesn’t drug test...they also don’t award World Records or National Championships.
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Old 01-12-19, 12:51 AM
  #2285  
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Originally Posted by JuiceWillis View Post
trenbelone has a half life of 2-3 days, he also popped for clomid which is used for anti-estrogen and post-cycle therapy. How do people still believe the "tainted food" or "tainted supplement" excuse? It stands to reason that he could have been micro-dosing tren, and did an injection prior to the 2nd test causing him to pop, which is why there were only trace amounts found on the second test and none on the first test. I mean hes 90 so who cares, but you don't pop for tren AND clomid because you ate something.
The trenbolone in meat is a very real thing. Cattle are fed Trenbolone pellets right up until they are shipped for slaughter. Sure trenbolone has a short half life, but that is an excretory half life, not a hlaf life due to chemical or elemental degradation. There is no withholding period for trenbolone acetate because of it's very short half life, unlike anitbiotics and other pharmaceuticals used in veternary treatment. So if a cattle is slaughtered that has been administered trenbolone before transport, it will have trenbolone and epitrenbolone within it's blood stream and muscles. Once slaughtered, these chemicals are "locked in" as the animal is no longer metabolizing and excreting these substances, because it's dead.

Secondly, taking an injection of trenbolone mid competition would actually hinder performance, as trenbolone is injected with a carrier oil (trenbolone acetate). This oil is carried into the blood stream and makes it to the users lungs where the body tries to get rid of it. Trenbolone also facilitates the release and activation of prostoglandins which have an infammatory effect on the lungs, as well as causing vasoconstricton in the bronchus. These add up to symptoms known as Tren Cough. It causes respiratory distress and hypoxemia in users, which is why it would be stupid for an endurance athlete to take this mid competition. So while it's a great drug for bodybuilders, it's a horrible choice for any athlete that requires any aerobic work in their training.

Thirdly, the Clomiphene never showed up in any of his bio samples, it was found to be contaminating one of the supplements that the athlete submitted to USADA for testing. He never got "popped" for Clomiphene.
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Old 01-12-19, 01:00 AM
  #2286  
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Here is an interesting article on Tren, actually there are a lot of them if you search, https://ironjunkies.com/trenbolone-review
Perhaps he cheats, if I can do what he is doing at 90 by any means possible, I will be exceeding my personal expectations.
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Old 01-12-19, 01:16 PM
  #2287  
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Riding the Hour from a layperson's perspective.

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Old 01-13-19, 04:34 AM
  #2288  
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I saw that video yesterday - very well presented, I thought. Provides a good explanation of the difficulties of the Hour record whilst simultaneously explaining how the advances made recently have been made (Bradley Wiggins' ability to hold 440W for 1 hour is extraordinary). Boardman's 'Superman' record shows that the aero does make the difference, though; if he could get over 56km with that position, it's clearly worth something. Cycling Weekly had an article recently where they got Graeme Obree into a wind tunnel to test the drag coefficient of the present-day aero position compared with the Superman and Obree's original 'no hands' position - apparently the 'no hands' position is still the most aero available.
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Old 01-13-19, 08:04 PM
  #2289  
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Is the UK Revolution Series dead?? Can't find anything less than a year old on the web.
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Old 01-14-19, 11:51 AM
  #2290  
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Originally Posted by Baby Puke View Post
Is the UK Revolution Series dead?? Can't find anything less than a year old on the web.
Yep
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Old 01-14-19, 04:59 PM
  #2291  
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Originally Posted by Poppit View Post

Yep
Wow, that's a shame. It seemed really popular and successful with spectators, any idea what went wrong?
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Old 01-15-19, 01:10 AM
  #2292  
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Cycling Australia teaming up with Zipp for 2020.
I'm guessing it's a similar deal to the BT/Argon 18, Mavic either provide the wheels for free or for a level of payment but Zipp are will to pay CA to use their wheels.

http://www.australiancyclingteam.com...IwTudqGeMKitVs
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Old 01-15-19, 01:39 AM
  #2293  
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Originally Posted by Huskey View Post
Cycling Australia teaming up with Zipp for 2020.
I'm guessing it's a similar deal to the BT/Argon 18, Mavic either provide the wheels for free or for a level of payment but Zipp are will to pay CA to use their wheels.

http://www.australiancyclingteam.com...IwTudqGeMKitVs



Cycling Australia is excited to be partnering with wheel manufacturer Zipp as our official supplier through to the Tokyo 2020 Olympic Games.

Zipp will provide front and rear disc wheels for the Argon 18 frames to the Australian Cycling Team as it strives for gold at the Tokyo 2020 Games.
Excellent.

Now that Zipp has their attention, maybe Zipp engineers can prove to them that the 808 is as fast (if not faster) than the Mavic Io.

Recall that Zipp publishes wind tunnel tests...Mavic does not.
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Old 01-15-19, 02:07 AM
  #2294  
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...and maybe they can put their front disc back in production?
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Old 01-15-19, 02:23 AM
  #2295  
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To me the carbon track crankset catches my eyes.
i think it’s made by automotive manufacturer
bf1systems
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Old 01-15-19, 03:09 AM
  #2296  
carleton
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Originally Posted by gycho77 View Post
To me the carbon track crankset catches my eyes.
i think it’s made by automotive manufacturer
bf1systems
Yes. I believe this is the same company (and cranks?) used by Team GB in the London Olympics:



http://www.bf1systems.com/product/tr...d-aero-cranks/

These force measurement cranks were designed from the ground-up as cranks which were to be instrumented, and had to survive the highest loads seen anywhere in cycling, during the standing start of a velodrome race.

Each crank is capable of measuring the torque and force applied to it, along with its position, and transmits this wirelessly at 192Hz to the receiver mounted on the bike.

An internally mounted battery powers each crank, providing approximately 7 hours of continual use.

Status LEDs on the cranks provide the user with information on the current status of each crank arm.
My guess is that with only 7hrs of use per charge, they must be transmitting data very frequently. I would love to see one of the files
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Old 01-15-19, 04:32 AM
  #2297  
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192hz!!!
that’s crazy number.
i thought it was a normal carbon track crank
i wonder how they collect the data without custom headunit.


Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Yes. I believe this is the same company (and cranks?) used by Team GB in the London Olympics:



Track Cycling Instrumented Aero Cranks | bf1systems



My guess is that with only 7hrs of use per charge, they must be transmitting data very frequently. I would love to see one of the files
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Old 01-16-19, 03:45 AM
  #2298  
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Excellent.

Now that Zipp has their attention, maybe Zipp engineers can prove to them that the 808 is as fast (if not faster) than the Mavic Io.

Recall that Zipp publishes wind tunnel tests...Mavic does not.
I noticed in the press release how precisely they mentioned the disc element of it...leading me to think that for bunch racing and sprint it would be an alternative supplier providing the 5 spoke rather than the Zipp 808?
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Old 01-16-19, 08:24 AM
  #2299  
carleton
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Originally Posted by ruudlaff View Post
I noticed in the press release how precisely they mentioned the disc element of it...leading me to think that for bunch racing and sprint it would be an alternative supplier providing the 5 spoke rather than the Zipp 808?
Yeah, I noticed that, too. You are probably right.
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Old 01-16-19, 08:51 AM
  #2300  
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World Cup V starts Friday in Cambridge, NZ (Or Thursday in the USA at 1:00 pm MST)
TISSOT UCI TRACK CYCLING WORLD CUP V | Tissot Timing

Last edited by 700wheel; 01-16-19 at 11:24 AM.
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