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Support on rural ride

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Support on rural ride

Old 07-15-19, 06:59 AM
  #26  
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108 miles, 10000 feet, and a lot of gravel. I think that's like riding 150-180 miles (or more!) on rolling paved roads.

I've stashed gallon jugs of spring water on a route. It's easy to tuck them out of sight off the road. It would be refreshing to have a gallon per person -- fill all the bottles, drink some more, and wash off the road grime with the leftovers. I would worry about a food stash, perhaps critters would get in it.
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Old 07-15-19, 07:17 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
The Katadyn BeFree 1 liter water filter is simple, compact and has excellent flow rate. It has served me well on long gravel rides in the middle of nowhere.

Last Tuesday I did 80 miles with 8000+ ft climbing in a very remote area and stopped twice to filter for a total of at least 7 liters. Two bottles in the triangle contained water and a Magnum bottle on the fork was used with Nuun for electrolyte drink.

A small frame bag contained pickles, two turkey wraps, a can of pringles crushed and poured into a ziplock bag and Lara bars, pump, Katadyn filter and jacket.

A top tube bag contained gels, blocks, Endurolytes and Nuun tabs.


-Tim-
Thanks for the info about these filters. Lightweight and they roll up when empty.
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Old 07-15-19, 08:16 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by rm -rf View Post
Thanks for the info about these filters. Lightweight and they roll up when empty.
It should be mentioned that the Katadyn BeFree needs to be treated with a little care.

I managed to get a pin hole in one. I'm sure it was pulling it out of and shoving it back into the frame bag so now I roll it carefully and keep it in a small stuff sack so it doesn't abrade or get pinched.

Not a big deal but just mentioning it on the chance that someone decides to invest in one.



Bikepacking.com has reviews of many filters including a roundup of lightweight filters at https://bikepacking.com/plan/ultralight-water-filters/.

They don't rate the BeFree high but they also published an article by a couple who rode the entire length of South America with one. It is what you make of it and there are certainly others out there if this doesn't work for someone.


-Tim-
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Old 07-15-19, 09:46 AM
  #29  
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I wish I had friends like you, it's super hard to find people that genuinely want to do rides like that, and commit to finishing them. If anyone's up for long and awesome rides and in Wisconsin (near Milwaukee area) let me know!
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Old 07-15-19, 09:53 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by billyymc View Post
There will be places where we COULD diverge from the route if we needed something - it would cost us maybe 4 miles and at 5 or 600 feet of additional climb to divert then get back on route.
I'm surprised nobody else has picked this option, since it seems the best choice to me.

Divert two miles and return? No big deal. Check in with rescue team? There's probably cell service at the convenience store/gas station/whatever. Sit down, chat, relax, recharge for 15 minutes -- that's not a major schedule driver on this ride, now is it? Ice in the middle of a 95 degree afternoon? Priceless!
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Old 07-15-19, 10:05 AM
  #31  
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Carrying enough food isn't too difficult with judicious use of jersey pockets or top tube bags or something of that ilk.

The water is always the tricky part. I can go 68 miles on two large bottles (26 oz) and a 2-liter hydration pack. I prefer the Orange Mud Endurance Pack because it has a lot of useful features--pockets on the shoulder straps for more food, etc.

But I've never tried that with 10,000 feet of climbing. My guess is that I would need more fluid.

Nevertheless if it were me I'd probably just trust in God and luck and head out. And keep my eyes open for potential water resupply options along the route. Where I live it's not too hard to find a rural church with a hydrant somewhere, or as a last resort I can try knocking on farmhouse doors. Don't know what it's like in Maine though.
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Old 07-15-19, 10:15 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by ksryder View Post
Carrying enough food isn't too difficult with judicious use of jersey pockets or top tube bags or something of that ilk.

The water is always the tricky part. I can go 68 miles on two large bottles (26 oz) and a 2-liter hydration pack. I prefer the Orange Mud Endurance Pack because it has a lot of useful features--pockets on the shoulder straps for more food, etc.

But I've never tried that with 10,000 feet of climbing. My guess is that I would need more fluid.

Nevertheless if it were me I'd probably just trust in God and luck and head out. And keep my eyes open for potential water resupply options along the route. Where I live it's not too hard to find a rural church with a hydrant somewhere, or as a last resort I can try knocking on farmhouse doors. Don't know what it's like in Maine though.
haha...ride starts in Maine, New York - a little village about an hour or so south of Syracuse.

I agree we can carry our nutrition without much issue. And I also agree that perhaps knocking on a couple doors would work fine, but I'm not sure I want to rely on it.

As for being able to take a short (4-5 mile) detour and resupply - I think I was wrong. Been looking closer at the route and don't see that being viable in the places I suspect it would be needed.

And yes the 10k of climbing makes the ride a lot harder than even just half that amount. Plus with dirt / forest roads descending isn't always care-free - some descents can be quite slow and take a fair amount of effort.
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Old 07-15-19, 12:12 PM
  #33  
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Are there rivers or streams that you will be crossing?

Deep ravines that may have seasonal water? (although you will be hitting it pretty late in the year for seasonal water).

Still, it doesn't really take more than a trickle.

Water filtration or treatment should be an option for a small group.
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Old 07-15-19, 12:26 PM
  #34  
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Hey, you are right in my neck of the woods.

I've not been putting in those kind of miles/elevation recently, but I use to do a lot of riding similar to what you are describing (~1K vertical per 10 miles) when I lived in the Blue Ridge Mountains, always solo. While I have only done 100 miles in that terrain one time (I rode the Mountains of Misery course -unsupported- just to see if I could), going 70 miles completely unsupported was not uncommon.

Yeah, for what you are describing, two water bottles and an energy bar in my pocket would not cut it for me .
I added an extra bottle mount on my seat post (for three total), and had a rear rack with a small trunk bag that I could, if needed, carry more water in. A frame bag would have been fine, too. Sure, it is a lot of extra weight, but its not really THAT big of a deal, and it gets lighter as you go. Also, it sounds like you are a stronger rider than I was, so it will likely not take you as long as it did me.

I think a SAG vehicle is kind of silly just to save you from carrying a few extra water bottles and food.
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Old 07-15-19, 01:54 PM
  #35  
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I don't know the specific route you are planning but, I mapped out the general route on Google Maps, and there do not seem to be any significant 'dead zones' where you are truly out of civilization for any distance. When you are closer to the day you want to ride, select a route that hits a small town or village in the middle of any stretches that you fear you may need to resupply.

Also, I have found myself out of civilization in the past and in need of water, and I have never been refused when going up to someone (house, business, church, etc) and asking to fill my bottles.... you will likely see someone watering their lawn and you can just ask to borrow the hose.
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Old 07-15-19, 03:49 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Wilfred Laurier View Post
I don't know the specific route you are planning but, I mapped out the general route on Google Maps, and there do not seem to be any significant 'dead zones' where you are truly out of civilization for any distance. When you are closer to the day you want to ride, select a route that hits a small town or village in the middle of any stretches that you fear you may need to resupply.

Also, I have found myself out of civilization in the past and in need of water, and I have never been refused when going up to someone (house, business, church, etc) and asking to fill my bottles.... you will likely see someone watering their lawn and you can just ask to borrow the hose.
I already mapped the route. I know the area pretty well. I've been looking at possibilities for re-routing but I can't really find any that work. One of the goals of the ride was to do 10k feet of climbing over about a century ride. Re-routing adds miles but takes away elevation gain in most cases. Which adds more miles to get back to teh desired elevation goal.

So if you know the area, go from Slaterville Springs east a bit, straight up into Hammond Hill forest, turn right for a bit and come back down. Then northeast into Robinson Hollow State forest (directly adjacent to Hammond Hill) almost to Harford then southwest back out. Then east sort of toward Michigan Hill state forest, cross Route 28 at Harford Mills, Take 221 to Babcock Hollow then hang a left and climb up into James Kennedy State Forest past the top of Greek Peak ski area (sort of) then turn right and head back down out of James Kennedy. Shoot over to Lapeer, down the edge of Beaver Damn State Forest to Center Lisle, to East Berkshire, to Ketchumville, to Maine.

So we resupply in Slaterville Springs, but I don't see a good opportunity after that. If you know the area and know of a place by all means let me know - would appreciate it.
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Old 07-16-19, 07:15 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Wilfred Laurier View Post
I don't know the specific route you are planning but, I mapped out the general route on Google Maps, and there do not seem to be any significant 'dead zones' where you are truly out of civilization for any distance. When you are closer to the day you want to ride, select a route that hits a small town or village in the middle of any stretches that you fear you may need to resupply.

Also, I have found myself out of civilization in the past and in need of water, and I have never been refused when going up to someone (house, business, church, etc) and asking to fill my bottles.... you will likely see someone watering their lawn and you can just ask to borrow the hose.
Got is sorted out. From the top of James Kennedy State Forest we will drop down to Virgil and ride to the Virgil Country Store, then backtrack. Added 5 miles and 500 feet of elevation but I was able to cut out a gratuitous diversion later in the ride to get back to 109 and 10,010. Now we have stops available at 25, 45, 77 miles. Should be more than adequate.
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Old 07-28-19, 08:39 PM
  #38  
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So I went out for a ride today and decided to hit a couple of the gravel roads that will be on the 108/10k ride discussed above. One in particular I wanted to check out was a pretty sturdy climb of 8.5% for about a mile, with a max of 16%, on a seasonal use forest road with loose gravel and exposed shale in places. It was a brutal climb and a sketchy descent.

And to top it off when I got home and was doing a bit of routine maintenance on the bike I noticed this:



A nice 1" hole in my rear wheel. Ugh...it was probably my fault for riding that "road" on 700x28 (Grand Prix 4 Seasons) with about 90 psi. I don't have an extra wheelset, but I should have put some bigger tires on for today. I think I've got about 8 - 10k miles on the Zondas so it's not as if they were new. I am not real easy on wheels. I have 24k miles on this bike (2007 Tricross Comp I bought used in 2009) and I think I've gone through about...5 rear wheels.

BUt on the bright side, after considering buying two wheelsets for this bike I realized getting 130mm QR rear wheels is becoming harder and harder. So I decided to go ahead and pull the trigger on a Fairdale Rockitship frame in kelly green! Can't wait to build it up - will be nice to ride some cushier tires on the dirt. I'll keep the Tricross as my paved road bike for now.
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Old 07-28-19, 08:56 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by billyymc View Post
Ok - so seem from lots of posts I was over thinking this ride.

I guess 108 miles with 10,100 feet of climbing, with no points to resupply water in the last 68 miles is just another ride for many of you.

Carry on.
I know you resolved this already but I'd still like to weigh in. A ride like that would probably be the pinnacle of my season. An option I've considered is driving out and stashing a resupply as well as a smaller backup at mile 50 & 70. Foam cooler filled with water, food hidden in the woods will still be reasonably cool ~24 hours later.

Personally I am not interested in carrying enough water for a 68 miles with no resupply in the summer with that much dirt and climbing. I'd need at least 8 pounds for the gallon I'd drink, at a minimum. Thankfully, around here one would have to willfully plan a route to avoid stops to go that far. Even the most rural routes are tied together by the odd store, church or WMA. I've been in some dire straights but have yet to have to knock on someone's door for water. Anyway, sucks about the wheel, congrats about the new bike and let us know how the ride goes.
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Old 09-07-19, 08:00 AM
  #40  
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Well I went out to attempt this ride yesterday and ended up having to cut it short.

One of my riding partners was going to ride the first 25 miles with me - to the first place I planned to stop - then peel off and ride 15 back to where we started.

At mile 3, riding up a dirt road at around 7:30 am, two deer burst out of the weeds next to the road. The first one hit my rear wheel with it's leg getting caught in my spokes. The second simultaneously hit my buddy square in the body. All four of us went down, with the deer caught in my wheel crying out. The deer got up quicker than we did and proceeded to run in their original direction. As we were checking over our bodies and bikes a county worker on a road grader who had seen the whole thing go down pulled up to us and said "that was the craziest thing I've ever seen in my life!"

No real damage to equipment or our bodies (a few scrapes - it was uphill on a dirt road that had literally been regraded teh day before so it was softish). I think my derailler hanger is slightly bent but not so bad I can't ride the bike. So we proceeded on our ride as planned.

At about mile 23 we had a really steep descent out of the woods on rough gravel, and when we stopped at mile 25 we noticed that a plug I had put in my rear wheel last week was leaking sealant. I pulled the plug and put a new one in and aired up - and a few minutes later that one let loose with a loud bang. Lost more sealant. Plugged it again and aired up with a bit less pressure and it seemed like it was holding ok. At that point I assessed my situation and realized I was undersupplied. I had 85 miles to go, not enough sealant in my rear tire to be effective, and while I had a tube I didn't have a pump. I know - my bad for not having a pump. I started the ride with 4 CO2 cartridges and had used 2 and a half (plus one of my buddy's). If I'd had a pump I would have continued the ride and just put a tube in the tire if I'd had more flats that wouldn't seal. Instead I rode back to the start, went home and put a patch on the inside of my tire and refilled it with the proper amount of sealant.

I'll do this ride soon. Maybe tomorrow, maybe next week. And I'll be sure to have a pump with me!
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Old 09-07-19, 10:01 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by billyymc View Post
Well I went out to attempt this ride yesterday and ended up having to cut it short.

One of my riding partners was going to ride the first 25 miles with me - to the first place I planned to stop - then peel off and ride 15 back to where we started.

At mile 3, riding up a dirt road at around 7:30 am, two deer burst out of the weeds next to the road. The first one hit my rear wheel with it's leg getting caught in my spokes. The second simultaneously hit my buddy square in the body. All four of us went down, with the deer caught in my wheel crying out. The deer got up quicker than we did and proceeded to run in their original direction. As we were checking over our bodies and bikes a county worker on a road grader who had seen the whole thing go down pulled up to us and said "that was the craziest thing I've ever seen in my life!"

No real damage to equipment or our bodies (a few scrapes - it was uphill on a dirt road that had literally been regraded teh day before so it was softish). I think my derailler hanger is slightly bent but not so bad I can't ride the bike. So we proceeded on our ride as planned.

At about mile 23 we had a really steep descent out of the woods on rough gravel, and when we stopped at mile 25 we noticed that a plug I had put in my rear wheel last week was leaking sealant. I pulled the plug and put a new one in and aired up - and a few minutes later that one let loose with a loud bang. Lost more sealant. Plugged it again and aired up with a bit less pressure and it seemed like it was holding ok. At that point I assessed my situation and realized I was undersupplied. I had 85 miles to go, not enough sealant in my rear tire to be effective, and while I had a tube I didn't have a pump. I know - my bad for not having a pump. I started the ride with 4 CO2 cartridges and had used 2 and a half (plus one of my buddy's). If I'd had a pump I would have continued the ride and just put a tube in the tire if I'd had more flats that wouldn't seal. Instead I rode back to the start, went home and put a patch on the inside of my tire and refilled it with the proper amount of sealant.

I'll do this ride soon. Maybe tomorrow, maybe next week. And I'll be sure to have a pump with me!
Well, now you have the food problem worked out, fresh deer meat.

Sorry to hear about the ride being cut short. Glad to hear you both made it our relatively unscathed.
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Old 09-08-19, 07:43 PM
  #42  
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I thought I'd close this thread out full circle. I went back out and did this ride today - solo all the way this time, and while I saw about 20 deer (six in the first half mile), we kept a respectable distance from one another. Although I did almost get T-boned by a mountain biker who popped out of the woods crossing a road through a popular MTB area (Shindagin Hollow State Forest - great place to ride if you're in the area!). We both hit the brakes, both said sorry simultaneously and had a laugh and went on with our respective rides.

Anyway - I ended up with 111 miles, and just under 11,100 feet. The funny thing is that when I got near the end I realized I could manage both my elevation and mileage and tried to get all "1s": 111.1 miles, 11,111 feet. And on my GPS I did...and then went over by a foot and ended at 11,112! But for some reason ridewithgps cut about 40 feet off...whatever.

As for the ride - it was excellent. Scenic, peaceful, challenging, painful at times, but ultimately well worth the effort. About half the distance was gravel - maybe a bit less. More than half the elevation gain was on gravel. Some of the gravel descents were brutal - I actually stopped and let some air out of my tires, and a couple of them were minus 18 percent on loose 1 to 3 inch rocks. So the gravel sections accounted for well over half the effort.

Also lots of time on quiet country roads with no or almost no traffic. Some of them were freshly oiled and covered with loose stones - made those descents a bit slower/trickier.

My resupply points worked well until the last one - I didn't check to see if the Virgil Market was open on Sunday! I was able to go a short distance further and stop at the Greek Peak adventure center for some overpriced water and snacks - but it saved me from diverting home via a differnt route. I had zero water and little food left when I got there. I had hoped for some protein at this point but had to eat what was available...my stomach did get a bit annoyed with carbs.

https://ridewithgps.com/trips/39689491

This was the "road" on the climb into Hammond Hill State Forest. This fun went on for about 1/2 mile.



A scene that was repeated several times - lots of seasonal roads, some smoother than others










Yep I put aerobars on my gravel bike for this ride - I need the variation in position for rides of this duration. Yep I know the guy who won Dirty Kanza rode with aerobars. It still weird on a gravel bike, but it worked today.
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Old 09-08-19, 08:06 PM
  #43  
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Old 09-09-19, 11:44 AM
  #44  
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Congratulations, and great pictures! Glad you completed the ride. Looks like a wonder place to ride.
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Old 09-10-19, 11:08 AM
  #45  
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IMO, more roadies need to get over the triathlon stigmas and adopt some of their ways. And some of the randonneur ways.

They sell really aero BTS double bottle mounts that also holds a CO2 cartridge. Specialized makes one that includes two rib cages. You won't eject a bottle with those. Trust me. Also, they hold a Podium bottle really secure and they make an insulated Podium bottle.

Then you can carry 4 bottles on your bike.

It's like $30. I'm sure plenty of folks who blow money on bike stuff can afford that.

Also, roadies can stash snacks in their jersey or go the triathlon route and buy a top tube "bento box".

I often solo 100k+ rides because I need the uninterrupted tempo by not being in a group. Meaning, on my own for all fluids, tools, stops, etc..... I don't depend on needing a convenience store. I take it with me.
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Old 09-10-19, 12:17 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
IMO, more roadies need to get over the triathlon stigmas and adopt some of their ways. And some of the randonneur ways.

They sell really aero BTS double bottle mounts that also holds a CO2 cartridge. Specialized makes one that includes two rib cages. You won't eject a bottle with those. Trust me. Also, they hold a Podium bottle really secure and they make an insulated Podium bottle.

Then you can carry 4 bottles on your bike.

It's like $30. I'm sure plenty of folks who blow money on bike stuff can afford that.

Also, roadies can stash snacks in their jersey or go the triathlon route and buy a top tube "bento box".

I often solo 100k+ rides because I need the uninterrupted tempo by not being in a group. Meaning, on my own for all fluids, tools, stops, etc..... I don't depend on needing a convenience store. I take it with me.
Well first, I did the ride already. If you look at my pics, I did use a top tube bag for carrying food and some other things.

As for carrying all my fluids - I could do 100 flattish miles on 4 water bottles i guess. But this ride was 11,000 feet of climbing and a lot of gravel/dirt roads. Even though it was cool, I drank 7.5 podium bottles (21 oz bottles) of water, a large (20 oz) iced tea, and half a coffee (I spilled the other half on me). I would have had to start the ride with 12+ pounds of fluids if I wanted to take everything I drank. I'm no weight weenie, but that seems like a lot.

For anyone wanting to argue with my math, I used 1.04 ounces of weight per fluid ounce.
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Old 09-10-19, 12:39 PM
  #47  
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Ah, 11k feet and gravel changes things a wee bit! Also, the 4 bottles was just for the last 68mi or so you mentioned. Not all 100+.

In that case, maybe loop the route to a chained up cooler if you don't have SAG?
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Old 09-10-19, 01:00 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
Ah, 11k feet and gravel changes things a wee bit! Also, the 4 bottles was just for the last 68mi or so you mentioned. Not all 100+.

In that case, maybe loop the route to a chained up cooler if you don't have SAG?
In hindsight I could have left coolers all along the route if I'd wanted...on multiple occasions I went for an hour or two without seeing a house, car, or person. Some sections felt quite remote even though in reality I was never more than 10 miles from something resembling civilization.

But really the easiest thing was just to alter my initial route slightly as I did, and carry a relatively normal amount of food and water. When I hit my last planned stop and found it closed I was lucky that the ski / adventure resort just a quarter mile away had snacks and water. If they hadn't my next available option would have been a 9 mile diversion to resupply. At that point I would have abandoned my route and just headed back to the start a different way. I would have still gotten the mileage and elevation goals, just not the route I intended.

I've been able to get through about 65 miles with two water bottles - it's not easy, and I feel dehydrated after. But that was a flat route with just 2,500 feet of elevation in that distance. It's part of a regular century I do that I'd like to attempt completely non-stop (except for traffic lights of course) and see if I can get under 5 hours of moving time (the whole century has only 3100 feet). But heck, I'm getting old (53). I better do it soon...ha.
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Old 09-10-19, 01:14 PM
  #49  
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God job on the ride!

As far as stashing water and food someplace, I've done it. If bears and the like are not a concern people are easy; just put it where they'll have to walk more than ten steps from their car. Safe as Fort Knox.
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Old 09-10-19, 02:05 PM
  #50  
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Hi Billy

I had a similar situation in Normandy once, the last leg was a brutal 100 miler in a Catholic region on a Sunday i.e. no resupply points!

Kind of had to wing it in this case, but in hindsight I would suggest either 1) restocking everything the day before for the final leg or 2) carry high energy bars & gels for the final stage and restock water on the day before. You could even use a map to scope out any natural fresh water sources if you're feeling intrepid.

Good luck...

Cheers

Andy
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