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Is amateur racing legit?

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Is amateur racing legit?

Old 07-15-19, 07:27 PM
  #151  
zigmeister
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Originally Posted by topflightpro View Post
Bicycle races are incredibly expensive to put on, and they do not generate the participation numbers that running or triathlon events do. That's why you often don't get a t-shirt. I really wish that USAC had not stopped requiring all clubs to put on events, because there are a lot of people who have no clue how much work and cost is required to put on a race.

And you can look up USAC's finances online. They aren't rolling in it. A lot of the money that goes to USAC from racing fees goes to insurance coverage of racers. USAC pays out a lot to insure riders who are injured in crashes. Masters and Juniors nationals cover the costs of pro and elite nationals. (Pro Nationals loses money every year.)
Guess I need to look up their finances. Because USAC, if you have primary insurance, isnt going to pay a penny for medical costs. When I crashed, there was no mention by the organizer of insurance. Most require before you leave to fill out a form if you had an accident. How can you do that when you can barely move or write. Must be mostly event coverage for general things like my company gets for events we are involved with. Not medical I guess?

Amateur Masters cycling racers are by far the largest group of dopers caught and sanctioned of all amateur athletes in the US. Think someone mentioned this above also. And that is with a pathetic amount of testing done. Maybe a few hundred test all year for thousands of people and many races?

Payouts are a joke, don't cover the gas and time, pointless as well.

Seems like the number is actually much higher IMO who dope. Probably fact it is much higher considering the small sample taken and targeted amount of riders at specific events.

Anyway, around these parts, one of the two promoters isn't doing races anymore, one went mostly northern part of the state, out of most of the main region, and one is southern part of state. Numbers of events have gone from 10-12+ a year to maybe 3 that someone in our area would waste their time to go to. No joke. Why am I paying for a license even? To "clean" up the sport?!?! Kind of glad I crashed and didn't race for two years. Got my license again this year did only 1 race that worked into my personal schedule/life as a master's racer that is within 2hrs of me. So yeah, not renewing...the sport is dying in this Country, dope all you want guys.

Last edited by zigmeister; 07-15-19 at 07:53 PM.
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Old 07-16-19, 06:01 AM
  #152  
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Originally Posted by zigmeister View Post
Guess I need to look up their finances. Because USAC, if you have primary insurance, isnt going to pay a penny for medical costs. When I crashed, there was no mention by the organizer of insurance. Most require before you leave to fill out a form if you had an accident. How can you do that when you can barely move or write. Must be mostly event coverage for general things like my company gets for events we are involved with. Not medical I guess?
If you have a USAC License, you have a supplemental health insurance policy that provides additional coverage if you are in a crash during a USAC sanctioned event - including sanctioned charity rides. You have to apply for that reimbursement. They don't just give it to you when you crash.

Payouts are determined by local promoters. Not USAC.
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Old 07-16-19, 11:25 AM
  #153  
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Amateur masters and doping. Seems kind of pathetic.
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Old 07-16-19, 03:48 PM
  #154  
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Which ironically enough seems to insinuate that there's a level where cheating is ok.

Check your moral compasses at the door, folks.
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Old 07-16-19, 03:53 PM
  #155  
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Originally Posted by CyclingFever View Post
Amateur masters and doping. Seems kind of pathetic.
Old people can have hopes and dreams too. Turning 30 doesn't mean you just watch games shows and wait to die. Winning is just as important to Masters as it is for Juniors, and unfortunately some Masters have a really good revenue stream to spend on the sport and have questionable ethical standards.

I can go to my doctor right now, whine about not getting it up, and get a nice T prescription, and since I have really really good health care, it'll be less than $50 a month. After hearing on a podcast what T does for you, it sounds like a miracle drug for endurance athletes. With the limited amount of testing and how hard it is to win a bike race, chances of getting caught are pretty low so if its not an ethical issue, people are going to dope.

I don't want to be the 'everyone faster than me is doping guy' because I don't think many are doping. At Nationals and big races maybe, but not at most races.

That being said, it only takes 1 guy to completely crush the hopes and dreams for a whole district (like Meeker did).
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Old 07-16-19, 04:11 PM
  #156  
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Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
Which ironically enough seems to insinuate that there's a level where cheating is ok.

Check your moral compasses at the door, folks.
Originally Posted by furiousferret View Post
Old people can have hopes and dreams too. Turning 30 doesn't mean you just watch games shows and wait to die. Winning is just as important to Masters as it is for Juniors, and unfortunately some Masters have a really

good revenue stream to spend on the sport and have questionable ethical standards.

I can go to my doctor right now, whine about not getting it up, and get a nice T prescription, and since I have really really good health care, it'll be less than $50 a month. After hearing on a podcast what T does for you, it sounds like a miracle drug for endurance athletes. With the limited amount of testing and how hard it is to win a bike race, chances of getting caught are pretty low so if its not an ethical issue, people are going to dope.

I don't want to be the 'everyone faster than me is doping guy' because I don't think many are doping. At Nationals and big races maybe, but not at most races.

That being said, it only takes 1 guy to completely crush the hopes and dreams for a whole district (like Meeker did).
More the amateur part is the pathetic piece. If you are masters age it's not your career and you are still cheating? That's pretty sad. Not too mention I think 35 is the like the age limit for hard core cheating in sports.
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Old 07-16-19, 04:35 PM
  #157  
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Originally Posted by cyclingfever View Post
more the amateur part is the pathetic piece. If you are masters age it's not your career and you are still cheating? That's pretty sad. Not too mention i think 35 is the like the age limit for hard core cheating in sports.

ffs
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Old 07-17-19, 06:12 AM
  #158  
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Originally Posted by CyclingFever View Post
If you are masters age it's not your career and you are still cheating? That's pretty sad. Not too mention I think 35 is the like the age limit for hard core cheating in sports.
You know what % of any amateur in any sport goes pro at even the most marginal level? It's small. So it will likely never be a career either for anyone that's in their teens or 20's also.

To assume that it's only worth it to cheat to people younger than 35 is to say that there isn't any legitimate competition among people 35 and older.

I know you don't mean it that way. Otherwise we all may as well grow neckbeards and drink overhopped IPA's and eat until we're obese and on insulin before our kids leave high school.
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Old 07-17-19, 08:34 AM
  #159  
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You guys suck at picking up tongue in cheek type comments.

But seriously doping so you can win the 50+ age group? Pathetic.

Doping to win the TdF? Well neither are worth it and both deserve ridicule.
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Old 07-17-19, 09:59 AM
  #160  
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Your inability to convey tongue in cheek comments should not be blamed on others.
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Old 07-17-19, 03:40 PM
  #161  
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Well it is the internet but still. Masters doping is straight embarrassing.
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Old 07-17-19, 03:52 PM
  #162  
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Masters/Rec is embarrassing. Pros is embarrassing and kinda like stealing money when those you are taking it from those that were not doping.

Last edited by Doge; 07-18-19 at 01:00 PM.
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Old 07-18-19, 01:20 AM
  #163  
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Originally Posted by CyclingFever View Post
You guys suck at picking up tongue in cheek type comments.

But seriously doping so you can win the 50+ age group? Pathetic.

Doping to win the TdF? Well neither are worth it and both deserve ridicule.
I got it 👍🏽
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Old 07-18-19, 11:35 AM
  #164  
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Originally Posted by furiousferret View Post
...chances of getting caught are pretty low so if its not an ethical issue, people are going to dope.
This. You only need some modest observation skills to see that there are tons of people out there that won't hesitate to cheat, in just about every aspect of life. Some people simply believe it is wrong, and that is enough to keep them from doing it. Some people don't get any satisfaction from winning by unfair means, and that keeps them from doing it. But for all the people in those other categories, there are shallow and small-minded people that don't care.

Forget sports, which are rife with such personalities, and forget the business world, which is likewise full of scumbags; looking at video games. The amount of people willing to cheat to win in a video game is something that blew my mind when I learned about it.

Originally Posted by CyclingFever View Post
More the amateur part is the pathetic piece. If you are masters age it's not your career and you are still cheating? That's pretty sad. Not too mention I think 35 is the like the age limit for hard core cheating in sports.
See above.

Originally Posted by CyclingFever View Post
You guys suck at picking up tongue in cheek type comments.
As @gsteinb mentioned, you shouldn't be insulting other people for failing to interpret your less than stellar writing, and lack of punctuation.
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Old 07-18-19, 01:11 PM
  #165  
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You can't assume people have the same personal beliefs and ethics anywhere. And especially when changing locations.
The competition authorities, not the competitors make it fair or not. That is an economic decision based on cost and revenue. There simply is not enough revenue to fix it in the non-pro ranks. Shame - is relative and does not work on everyone. Some folks have no issues doing things others think is cheating. This is not going to ever get worked out until a lot more money is spent.
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Old 07-18-19, 03:55 PM
  #166  
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Originally Posted by robertorolfo View Post
This. You only need some modest observation skills to see that there are tons of people out there that won't hesitate to cheat, in just about every aspect of life. Some people simply believe it is wrong, and that is enough to keep them from doing it. Some people don't get any satisfaction from winning by unfair means, and that keeps them from doing it. But for all the people in those other categories, there are shallow and small-minded people that don't care.

Forget sports, which are rife with such personalities, and forget the business world, which is likewise full of scumbags; looking at video games. The amount of people willing to cheat to win in a video game is something that blew my mind when I learned about it.



See above.



As @gsteinb mentioned, you shouldn't be insulting other people for failing to interpret your less than stellar writing, and lack of punctuation.
What does punctuation have to do people being too dense to figure out that if it's obscure or odd it's probably sarcasm?
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Old 07-20-19, 04:16 PM
  #167  
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furious ferret is right. it's never been easier than right now to dope. I hears commercials for Low-T on local sports radio all the time. You go to the doctor, you get a prescription. You are never tested. Done.
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Old 07-21-19, 08:37 AM
  #168  
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On the topic of insurance, if anyone has made a claim through USAC's medical insurance provider would you please share your experience (either here or with me privately)? I'm trying to get a better understanding of coverage when used in combination with primary health insurance and anything other peculiarities of the policy.
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Old 07-21-19, 12:24 PM
  #169  
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Yeah, I did. There's an amount out of pocket you have to pay for and then they cover a percent above it. It seems to change year to year though. One crash surgery I got a good chunk of change, and on another I didn't get anything as my insurance was too good.
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Old 07-21-19, 04:30 PM
  #170  
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Originally Posted by Radish_legs View Post
furious ferret is right. it's never been easier than right now to dope. I hears commercials for Low-T on local sports radio all the time. You go to the doctor, you get a prescription. You are never tested. Done.
Depends on you level and age. Try the Low-T thing in your 20s...the doctor might be hard to find.
Outside of pros, I think the doping is a masters thing.
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Old 07-21-19, 04:45 PM
  #171  
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Doge's bias is showing. Of the guys caught in the NYC area many have been aspiring national caliber racers.
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Old 07-21-19, 05:00 PM
  #172  
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Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
Doge's bias is showing. Of the guys caught in the NYC area many have been aspiring national caliber racers.
You mean those aspiring to be national caliber in their 20s are doping?

Clearly, I am biased. I don't get that.
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Old 07-21-19, 05:04 PM
  #173  
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I know of no 20-30 year old non-pros I even suspect. Certainly, I don't know. I have many older ones I suspect. That all means nothing.
But to my response. It is very easy for an older guy to get help for things from ED to Low T, Insulin etc. These may all be legit. They are also not allowed in cycling. A 20 something needing the same help and also being a racer - may raise more eyebrows. College often wins over being a National competitor in cycling. At that stage, cycling is recreation. Then some dope for taking better tests too, but I think it is rare once in college, and more before.

If you are 20 something and going to dope, you better be getting paid for it.

Last edited by Doge; 07-21-19 at 05:08 PM.
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Old 07-21-19, 05:09 PM
  #174  
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https://www.usada.org/us-cycling-ath...ule-violation/

https://www.cxmagazine.com/usada-san...ping-violation

https://www.usada.org/cyclist-accept...les-violation/

There are others, but these were guys I was racing against at the time.

It's fun to bash on masters racers. It's just a bit dumb. The only reason the young guys have a sport left is the older guys are floating the bill to keep what little racing is left alive. The idea that there's enough testing, or it's done in manner where conclusions can be drawn about who is or isn't doping in a particular demographic is ignorant.

Does anyone think Meeker started doping as a masters racer? Oh, please.
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Old 07-21-19, 05:13 PM
  #175  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
I know of no 20-30 year old non-pros I even suspect.
That's not even something that makes sense, but pretending I know what you're saying...why would you know of any doping 20-30 year olds? The idea would be for people not to know.
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