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Where is the lightweight aero future we've been promised?

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Where is the lightweight aero future we've been promised?

Old 08-08-19, 09:19 AM
  #26  
Abe_Froman
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Originally Posted by mpath View Post
Just IMO, it's "expensive" not necessarily because the tech or the manufacturing process to make an aero frame more difficult, but simply marketed as such because it's the new thing.
Aero bikes arent really THAT much more expensive. IMO its juat that ALL pretty high quality bikes are ludicrously expensive these days. Also I've noticed aero bike often tend to be a bit higher specced than traditional bikes by the same maker.
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Old 08-08-19, 09:24 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
Lol yea to be fair I generally get a flat about once every few thousand miles also. However..i have a feeling if I rode group rides more consistently than I do...I'd get significantly more flats...its juat harder to avoid things when you view of the road is more limited.

Regardless...in spite of the voice of some here advocating here for tubulars...what say you of the fact it is virtually unheard of for people to be riding tubulars? When is the last time anyone saw somebody else riding tubulars that wasnt in a cross race?
Yes on the group rides.
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Old 08-08-19, 09:38 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
Regardless...in spite of the voice of some here advocating here for tubulars...what say you of the fact it is virtually unheard of for people to be riding tubulars? When is the last time anyone saw somebody else riding tubulars that wasnt in a cross race?
I belong to a club of about 150 members. But, on any given Saturday morning group ride there are about 60-75 people out on the club rides. We have everything from a Beginner ride to an A ride. Usually 6 different rides. Of all those people there are no more than 5-6 people on tubulars. Maybe. And, they are all ex-racers. I've always ridden clinchers. But, about two months ago I went to Mavic USTs. Not going back. These things are awesome.
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Old 08-08-19, 10:32 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by bruce19 View Post
I belong to a club of about 150 members. But, on any given Saturday morning group ride there are about 60-75 people out on the club rides. We have everything from a Beginner ride to an A ride. Usually 6 different rides. Of all those people there are no more than 5-6 people on tubulars. Maybe. And, they are all ex-racers. I've always ridden clinchers. But, about two months ago I went to Mavic USTs. Not going back. These things are awesome.
That sounds about right. The rides I go with are more 20-30 people, a collection of older mamil types, current racers in gravel/crits/CX, and a small smattering of the older ex racer crowd. I dont think I've ever seen a tubular.

But yea, if I was a retired racer with a couple nice sets of tubular wheels, and a box full of tubular tires, thats probably what I would ride as well. But the determining factor would be price, NOT performance or practicality. FREE is a hell of a deal relative to $500, $1000, or much more.

I just dont see ANYONE building/buying a bike, and then looking for $1000 new tubular wheels aside from current CX racers. Even then there is stiff competition from tubeless setups, which are a much better choice if the CX bike is going to be a multi purpose bike, as it is for many people. I have yet to see people using a CX bike on a gravel race with 40mm tubulars lol

Last edited by Abe_Froman; 08-08-19 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 08-08-19, 12:46 PM
  #30  
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Both of my main bikes have tubulars. They are not worth the hassle.
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Old 08-08-19, 03:02 PM
  #31  
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I anticipate aero-climbing bikes with clearance for 34's and proprietary combo stem-handlebars and D shaped seat tubes. Perhaps with a catch name like "Ever-slip."
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Old 08-08-19, 03:15 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
Regardless...in spite of the voice of some here advocating here for tubulars...what say you of the fact it is virtually unheard of for people to be riding tubulars? When is the last time anyone saw somebody else riding tubulars that wasnt in a cross race?
I just bought a set for JRA. Tape and sealant make it a whole new thing.
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Old 08-08-19, 03:32 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by mpath View Post
Just IMO, it's "expensive" not necessarily because the tech or the manufacturing process to make an aero frame more difficult, but simply marketed as such because it's the new thing.
I'd imagine the wind tunnel testing doesn't come free, and that it's harder to get the desired mechanical properties from shapes optimised for aero rather than, you know, mechanical properties.

Also, designing and refining stems and bars with internal cables/hoses is a new cost for the frame makers, rather than just picking something from a catalogue. It might be a bit cheaper if there's ever some standardisation that allows third-party gear to be an option.
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Old 08-08-19, 04:37 PM
  #34  
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I'm convinced that the handlebar is too low on most bikes.

I hardly ever see riders in the drops. Some people do entire rides and never leave the hoods.

Raising the bar a few CM would let some of these riders get into the drops and make them much more aerodynamic.


-Tim-

Last edited by TimothyH; 08-08-19 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 08-08-19, 04:44 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
I'm convinced that the handlebar is too low on most bikes.

I hardly ever see riders in the drops. Some people do entire rides on aero bikes and never leave the hoods.

Raising the bar a few CM would let some of these riders get into the drops and make them much more aerodynamic.


-Tim-
Drops are for Sprinting, not as aero as hoods given correct position right ?
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Old 08-08-19, 05:08 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX View Post
Drops are for Sprinting, not as aero as hoods given correct position right ?
Yes, I think you are correct.

https://road.cc/content/news/133598-...ker-down-hoods

I'm thinking however, that if riders can't get into the dropes for a decent period of time then they likely can't ride from the hoods in the optimal horizontal forearm position for any length of time either.

Maybe regular stretching would help create free aerodynamics?


-Tim-
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Old 08-08-19, 05:25 PM
  #37  
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It's a shame they didn't test the imaginary aerobars position.

Then again, I need the stupid mistakes thread, I tried to get into the IABs the other day with flat tops and sweaty arms, it's a wonder I didn't crash.
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Old 08-08-19, 05:32 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX View Post
Drops are for Sprinting, not as aero as hoods given correct position right ?
and descending
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Old 08-08-19, 06:13 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX View Post
Drops are for Sprinting, not as aero as hoods given correct position right ?
What's "correct position?"

Level forearms in the hoods is usually more aero than a similarly-low posture with extended arms in the drops, but the severe elbow bend also tends to require more tension in the upper body (a problem that aerobars solve by supporting the elbow). The hand position also tends to have less security and braking control.

Both postures are useful.
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Old 08-08-19, 09:20 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
Lol yea to be fair I generally get a flat about once every few thousand miles also. However..i have a feeling if I rode group rides more consistently than I do...I'd get significantly more flats...its juat harder to avoid things when you view of the road is more limited.

Regardless...in spite of the voice of some here advocating here for tubulars...what say you of the fact it is virtually unheard of for people to be riding tubulars? When is the last time anyone saw somebody else riding tubulars that wasnt in a cross race?
That’s easy. It is expensive compared to other options that are very similar in performance. On the velodrome, tubulars are much more common than clinchers. If you ever have a flat with clinchers on a velodrome, you will know why.
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Old 08-08-19, 09:28 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
When is the last time anyone saw somebody else riding tubulars that wasnt in a cross race?
Twice a week at the velodrome.
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Old 08-08-19, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
I just bought a set for JRA. Tape and sealant make it a whole new thing.
So much faster with tape
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Old 08-08-19, 09:34 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
I'm convinced that the handlebar is too low on most bikes.

I hardly ever see riders in the drops. Some people do entire rides and never leave the hoods.

Raising the bar a few CM would let some of these riders get into the drops and make them much more aerodynamic.


-Tim-
I think what is being found it the drops are not the most aero position. I know enduros at the velodrome use the Sphinx position and on the road the invisible aero bars and the Froome position seemed to be used a lot. The drops are good for control and sprinting.
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Old 08-09-19, 12:44 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by dalava View Post
You just decided you don't care enough. But for most people, there is a value in going fast(er).
There is also a question: Is it me or improved machinery?
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Old 08-09-19, 01:07 AM
  #45  
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If you have a power meter, there's an answer to that question.
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Old 08-09-19, 01:24 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post
Aero has added a pound or so of frame weight, relative to optimal round tubes.
Not all aero frames are a “pound or two” heavier than their lightweight counterparts. Not even close. Example:

Scott Addict HMX frame: 770 grams
Scott Foil HMX frame: 840 grams

That’s a difference of 70 grams — less than a sixth of a pound.
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Old 08-09-19, 02:05 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Yes, I think you are correct.

https://road.cc/content/news/133598-...ker-down-hoods

I'm thinking however, that if riders can't get into the dropes for a decent period of time then they likely can't ride from the hoods in the optimal horizontal forearm position for any length of time either.

Maybe regular stretching would help create free aerodynamics?


-Tim-
Some of us can motor along indefinitely in aero bars with a flat back. I can, at 67, and I never stretch.
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Old 08-09-19, 06:11 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
Not all aero frames are a “pound or two” heavier than their lightweight counterparts. Not even close. Example:

Scott Addict HMX frame: 770 grams
Scott Foil HMX frame: 840 grams

That’s a difference of 70 grams — less than a sixth of a pound.
I think it was GCN that ran a track test witb power meters, and the foil came in as one of the fastest bikes as well I believe.

There were pretty substantial differences to - not just a couple of watts. It was like 30+ between some of the bikes i believe in the 300 watt range.
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Old 08-09-19, 04:20 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by colnago62 View Post
So much faster with tape
You know, perhaps just an infinitesimal fraction.

Eliminating the hassle of glue isn't the biggest deal with tape. We can actually get our tyres on perfectly straight now.

Or maybe eliminating the hassle is the biggest deal, since it can make the difference between using tubulars or not. There's a speed difference for you.
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Old 08-09-19, 05:23 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
It's a shame they didn't test the imaginary aerobars position.

Then again, I need the stupid mistakes thread, I tried to get into the IABs the other day with flat tops and sweaty arms, it's a wonder I didn't crash.
You've gotta try 3T Aeronova. Or if the price of entry is too high, Toseek do a copy for pocket change.
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