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Old 08-19-19, 07:04 AM
  #26  
sfh
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post

I am, btw, getting really sick of this "drivers hate us because we roll stop signs" nonsense.


If I understand the OP's explanation, this isn't a case of "would you roll a stop sign".


The cyclist in question here put himself in danger and behaved as if it was someone else's job to keep him safe.


That's really different than your example of the right-turn lane in my opinion. I'll take the lane specifically so the slow moving vehicle behind me will see me and not pass me during the turn. All that vehicle has to do is follow traffic laws, and no one gets injured (and I'm not bothered at all by the 2-3 second delay I may have created for the driver). That's a big difference from a fast-moving cyclist assuming that the driver of a pickup was going to waive right-of-way at a 4-way stop.
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Old 08-19-19, 07:09 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by ooga-booga View Post
stop signs at the bottom of hills are my least favorite but most frequent nemesis.
I'm generally not fond of big downhills in city centers.
My worst crash was at the bottom of a hill in San Francisco where the city had decided not to raise the level of the manhole cover to the height of the regraded surface. Only time I've ever actually flown over the handlebars.

Not a common situation, which is probably why I didn't know that black manhole cover on black tar street actually camouflages the grade difference when you're approaching downhill.
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Old 08-19-19, 07:38 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by sfh View Post
If I understand the OP's explanation, this isn't a case of "would you roll a stop sign".


The cyclist in question here put himself in danger and behaved as if it was someone else's job to keep him safe.


That's really different than your example of the right-turn lane in my opinion. I'll take the lane specifically so the slow moving vehicle behind me will see me and not pass me during the turn. All that vehicle has to do is follow traffic laws, and no one gets injured (and I'm not bothered at all by the 2-3 second delay I may have created for the driver). That's a big difference from a fast-moving cyclist assuming that the driver of a pickup was going to waive right-of-way at a 4-way stop.
For a bicyclist, "would you endanger yourself by running a stop sign" and "do you ever roll a stop sign" are two entirely different questions. The OP may or may not have confounded the two issues, depending how you read the post.

I roll lots of stop signs, I never endanger myself doing so. For example, at a three way intersection, where there is literally no traffic lane crossing the breakdown lane I'm riding on, I will do this right in plain view of drivers. In that situation, I might as well be riding on the sidewalk as far as my relevance to the drivers' operations of their vehicles. I have decided I am marginally safer keeping my momentum and balance rather than having to stop and put down a foot for no good reason. Occasionally, a driver will let me know of their disagreement with my decision. I have decided not to care about that because frankly, I think it just shows they haven't really calculated the value of my making sure I'm going to remain out of their way. I'm not an ambassador, I'm traffic trying to get through the day in one piece.

I mention the right hand turn lane issue precisely because that's an area where I constantly get honked at, yelled at and even threatened because I'm actually following the law and the safest practice. It demonstrates the futility of trying to enact your riding as if it were some sort of morality play to show drivers cyclists aren't bad.
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Old 08-19-19, 07:39 AM
  #29  
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I'm going to have to say with a confident, "it depends." If I can see the intersecting road for like a quarter mile in either direction and ensure that the way will be clear when I get to the intersection, then I'd probably shoot the moon. However, most of the times that's not guaranteed, so if I don't have 100% assurance there won't be any cross traffic (including pedestrians), then I'll choose safety over convenience every time.
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Old 08-19-19, 07:52 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by one4smoke View Post
The reason why I asked this question, is because about a week or so ago I saw a cyclist barrelling down a hill toward a 4 way stop. I was 50 yards or so behind him, and had full view of the situation. He obviously could see vehicles coming toward him, and could see to the right of the intersection, as the view wasn't obstructed. But to the left, the view was obstructed by many trees. There were no vehicles around until he got within about 30 yards from the intersection. All of a sudden, a black pick-up truck pulled up to the stop sign. The cyclist put out his left palm toward the truck, as if to direct the driver to "stay put" so he could fly right on by. Well, the driver either did not see him do that, or didn't adhere to the instructions because he pulled out right in front of the bike. Luckily, the cyclist got it stopped with only inches to spare. I didn't think he would, and just knew it was gonna be bad. The cyclist then let the truck driver know exactly what he thought about him not giving way.
I've got a similar but different "dangerous cyclist" story. I was riding around a small lake, and at one point there's a low spot at one end of the lake, it's a fairly steep downhill with hairpin curve, then up another grade. I was going down clockwise, so of course I was on the right side of the road on the inside lane of the curve, and slowed accordingly to make the turn. Another cyclist came up behind me and passed me at speed in the curve, going into the oncoming "lane" (it's a narrow road without marked lanes) to slingshot around me, I guess. But the bad thing was that there was a car coming over the blind hill we were both about to ride up, headed right for him. He had to pass the vehicle on the left which I saw as a dangerous and stupid move, but if he had tried to come back into the right hand lane he'd have gotten creamed. I don't know if he later had to clean out his lycra, but it was a reminder to me to keep taking it slow and not take the curve in the oncoming lane when there's a blind hill. Unfortunately he took off and I didn't have a chance to tell him that was a stupid thing to do, but I think he knew it. I was just embarrassed in case the driver thought we were riding together.
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Old 08-19-19, 07:52 AM
  #31  
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I don't change safety protocol for a segment, hill, or otherwise. I do the same things one way or another.

Let me explain.

-all-stop situations: If it's an all-way stop, cars get more confused with the friendly wave they give you than if you had just gone. If I'm on the bike and I get to an all-way stop, it's head-on-a-swivel and motor on through. The times I've almost been hit by a car is when I arrive first but don't blow it. I would stop, then one of two things happens. One, the car tries to be nice and wave you on despite them arriving first. Then everyone is confused, and someone else tries to go. Two, you arrive first but don't blow it. The car tries to beat you, because you're a bike and they're a ******.

-tee junctions: I judge it by the visibility. If people have even a chance at not seeing me, or me them, I stop. Period. I'll roll one if it's pan flat, zero plants or signs, and you can see for miles. Otherwise, all stop.

Even if your riding protocol is flawed, you must at least be consistent. If you're inconsistent about your decision making, that's where the problems will crop up. If you consistently do something, you at least know what to expect and look for. If you act inconsistently, you don't know what to expect.
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Old 08-19-19, 08:02 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I mention the right hand turn lane issue precisely because that's an area where I constantly get honked at, yelled at and even threatened because I'm actually following the law and the safest practice. It demonstrates the futility of trying to enact your riding as if it were some sort of morality play to show drivers cyclists aren't bad.
Yeah. Hope I didn't sound critical of you for the right-hand turn issue. Sure -- it upsets a few drivers, but taking the lane is the safest course. To stay to the right invites the car to pass . . . plenty safe for the car but not the cyclist. I think we agree that's different than blowing a blind stop sign at high speed.
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Old 08-19-19, 08:05 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
I don't change safety protocol for a segment, hill, or otherwise. I do the same things one way or another.

Let me explain.

-all-stop situations: If it's an all-way stop, cars get more confused with the friendly wave they give you than if you had just gone. If I'm on the bike and I get to an all-way stop, it's head-on-a-swivel and motor on through. The times I've almost been hit by a car is when I arrive first but don't blow it. I would stop, then one of two things happens. One, the car tries to be nice and wave you on despite them arriving first. Then everyone is confused, and someone else tries to go. Two, you arrive first but don't blow it. The car tries to beat you, because you're a bike and they're a ******.

-tee junctions: I judge it by the visibility. If people have even a chance at not seeing me, or me them, I stop. Period. I'll roll one if it's pan flat, zero plants or signs, and you can see for miles. Otherwise, all stop.

Even if your riding protocol is flawed, you must at least be consistent. If you're inconsistent about your decision making, that's where the problems will crop up. If you consistently do something, you at least know what to expect and look for. If you act inconsistently, you don't know what to expect.
I totally disagree with that last paragraph. It's far more important to be situationally aware and adapt accordingly than use mental shortcuts that might lead you into a disaster. Also, the strategies I use are based on what has worked for me in the past, but I am always open to the possibility that a new experience may cause me to update the strategy.
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Old 08-19-19, 08:08 AM
  #34  
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I ride for enjoyment first and fitness second. I will make an Idaho stop at intersections that are stop sign only with no near traffic. Otherwise, I stop and wait for most stop lights unless my weight does not trigger the light and there is no other traffic.

In SoCal there are cyclist fatalities weekly. People here will run you down then flee. Happens all the time. I do not need to enhance the odds of being another fatality.

I have had other cyclists blow by me on busy intersections at red lights. Guess they have to move up on the Strava ladder.
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Old 08-19-19, 08:11 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by sfh View Post
Yeah. Hope I didn't sound critical of you for the right-hand turn issue. Sure -- it upsets a few drivers, but taking the lane is the safest course. To stay to the right invites the car to pass . . . plenty safe for the car but not the cyclist. I think we agree that's different than blowing a blind stop sign at high speed.
Speeding through a blind anything is always a bad risk. I've seen close calls when people take blind curves on MUPs too fast.
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Old 08-19-19, 08:16 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by CAT7RDR View Post
I ride for enjoyment first and fitness second. I will make an Idaho stop at intersections that are stop sign only with no near traffic. Otherwise, I stop and wait for most stop lights unless my weight does not trigger the light and there is no other traffic.

In SoCal there are cyclist fatalities weekly. People here will run you down then flee. Happens all the time. I do not need to enhance the odds of being another fatality.

I have had other cyclists blow by me on busy intersections at red lights. Guess they have to move up on the Strava ladder.
This would likely get me killed on A&S, but I am more and more convinced that one of the best safety measures available would be to eliminate Strava rankings. The sight of people riding TT bikes on the Minuteman and close-passing toddlers at speeds in the high 20s makes me cringe every time.
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Old 08-19-19, 08:44 AM
  #37  
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I blow through 4 way stops all the time when I see no pedestrians or cars present. I trust my ability to assess the safety of the situation and in 13 years of commuting 5 days a week have never crashed or had an incident with another vehicle or pedestrian. Honestly, the only close calls I've had are with other cyclists doing the same thing as me.
I don't advocate my riding style as being safe or correct. Just answering honestly.
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Old 08-19-19, 08:57 AM
  #38  
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Yep. Momentum first, safety second. If safety was first, I would be driving my car.
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Old 08-19-19, 09:24 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by one4smoke View Post
All of a sudden, a black pick-up truck pulled up to the stop sign. The cyclist put out his left palm toward the truck, as if to direct the driver to "stay put" so he could fly right on by. Well, the driver either did not see him do that, or didn't adhere to the instructions because he pulled out right in front of the bike.
Now that's insane! I never try to "work with" drivers. Since I don't wear prescription sunglasses it's hard to see a friendly gesture to go through so I always smile and wait it out. I treat vehicles like inanimate creatures and stay out of their way and assume they can't see or acknowledge me.

Giving instructions to a vehicle like that!? Ha good luck!! Just to blast through when you don't have right of way...
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Old 08-19-19, 12:46 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by one4smoke View Post
Do you blow through the stop sign just to keep your momentum up?
Bad idea. Always. If someone blasts through and smashes you flat, your life is over. So far, it's fair.

But the other person (if not a sociopath) suffers the mental anguish that comes from harming another person. You don't have the right to inflict that on someone.

And what of other bike riders in your area? Now you've contributed to painting them with the "reckless and rule defying" brush. Nice job.
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Old 08-19-19, 01:05 PM
  #41  
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Old 08-19-19, 01:07 PM
  #42  
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This thread isn't going to end well.

Most here care little about the topic and even less about what happens to everyone else. Most just want to argue, that's all.


Originally Posted by 55murray View Post
If safety was first, I would be driving my car Subaru.
Fixed.


-Tim-
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Old 08-19-19, 02:18 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Most here care little about the topic and even less about what happens to everyone else. Most just want to argue, that's all.
No we don't!
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Old 08-19-19, 02:35 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by CAT7RDR View Post
I ride for enjoyment first and fitness second. I will make an Idaho stop at intersections that are stop sign only with no near traffic. Otherwise, I stop and wait for most stop lights unless my weight does not trigger the light and there is no other traffic.

In SoCal there are cyclist fatalities weekly. People here will run you down then flee. Happens all the time. I do not need to enhance the odds of being another fatality.

I have had other cyclists blow by me on busy intersections at red lights. Guess they have to move up on the Strava ladder.
yuup. crazy bad intersections too like they wanna play frogger for giggles. can honestly say i've never seen a woman do it-only bros. shocked. shocked!
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Old 08-19-19, 02:42 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Milton Keynes View Post
No we don't!
I agree!
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Old 08-19-19, 02:45 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Milton Keynes View Post
No we don't!
That's not an argument. That is just a series of contradictory statements.


-Tim-
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Old 08-19-19, 03:35 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Milton Keynes View Post
No we don't!
Yes we do.
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Old 08-19-19, 03:48 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
That's not an argument. That is just a series of contradictory statements.
I'm sorry, is this the 5 minute argument or the full half-hour?
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Old 08-20-19, 10:44 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Milton Keynes View Post
I'm sorry, is this the 5 minute argument or the full half-hour?
Yes.
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Old 08-20-19, 11:06 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Wileyrat View Post
No.

I've managed to endanger my safety enough through inattention and survived to intentionally do it for convenience.

In that example, I may not come to a complete clip out stop if it's traffic free, but I will come close.
+1 Also: I used to take risks as a bike and ski racer, but that seems like a potential killer, literally, and for what... why are you on the bike?
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