spokes
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simple answer: no.
detailed answer: there's more to it than the amount of spokes, including build quality, rim strength, cross pattern and wheel size.
detailed answer: there's more to it than the amount of spokes, including build quality, rim strength, cross pattern and wheel size.
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Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
https://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm
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ok, same quality rim, build and spokes. only difference will be the spoke count. all the spokes that have broken on me has been at the bend. so I was wondering if the straight spokes(though fewer)would make a difference.
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the answer would be 'maybe'. straight pull spokes can still break spokes from the exact same causes that gave your other wheel problems.
spokes breaking at the bends or not depends mostly on build quality and age of the wheel.
search for metal fatigue and spoke tension.
spokes breaking at the bends or not depends mostly on build quality and age of the wheel.
search for metal fatigue and spoke tension.
__________________
Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
https://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm
Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
https://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm
#5
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If you are breaking spokes, learn how to properly tension spokes before investing in any new wheelset in an attempt to cure the problem, or find someone who does know how to properly tension spokes. Proper tension is the cure to probably 99% of all wheel problems.
Straight pull spokes rely on the strength of the head of the spoke versus the j-bend in the spoke. In my opinion, the benefits are slim to non-existent. Getting a replacement j-bend spoke is also much easier than a straight pull spoke, and you don't have to combat spoke twist during the build.
Straight pull spokes rely on the strength of the head of the spoke versus the j-bend in the spoke. In my opinion, the benefits are slim to non-existent. Getting a replacement j-bend spoke is also much easier than a straight pull spoke, and you don't have to combat spoke twist during the build.
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If your wheel has broken several spokes, it's likely the rest are going to breaking soon. The same under-tensioning that the broken spokes saw has happened to all the rest so they are likely just as fatigued. A re-build with new spokes is a better idea at this time.
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It's the low tension ones that break in the "J" bend at the hub. Need more tension.
This is a common problem with 8, 9, and 10-speed rear wheels due to the extreme dish needed to make room for the cassette. It takes maximum tension (or more) on the drive side in order to get enough tension in the non-drive side spokes and still have a centered rim.
Al
This is a common problem with 8, 9, and 10-speed rear wheels due to the extreme dish needed to make room for the cassette. It takes maximum tension (or more) on the drive side in order to get enough tension in the non-drive side spokes and still have a centered rim.
Al
#9
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It's the low tension ones that break in the "J" bend at the hub. Need more tension.
This is a common problem with 8, 9, and 10-speed rear wheels due to the extreme dish needed to make room for the cassette. It takes maximum tension (or more) on the drive side in order to get enough tension in the non-drive side spokes and still have a centered rim.
Al
This is a common problem with 8, 9, and 10-speed rear wheels due to the extreme dish needed to make room for the cassette. It takes maximum tension (or more) on the drive side in order to get enough tension in the non-drive side spokes and still have a centered rim.
Al
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Or use an off center rim or smaller cross section spokes on the non-drive side or radial lacing on the non-drive side or some combination of those three options. But only after you've tried a properly tensioned wheel or if you have money to spend and want something better than you'll (typically) find off the shelf.
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First things first - what do you weigh?
That aside, Sheldon disagrees with this other bloke over which side to put the radial spokes...
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#half-radial
https://spokeanwheel.110mb.com/lacingsr.htm#hr
He also reckons there's a better way to balance a rear wheel...
https://spokeanwheel.110mb.com/lacingsr.htm#23
If you're not racing on this bike and it's a steel frame, another good way to strengthen your rear wheel is to go to 135mm OLD. If you use an off-centre rim as well, and employ the 2-cross/3-cross pattern, it should be possible to really minimise the tension difference.
That aside, Sheldon disagrees with this other bloke over which side to put the radial spokes...
A spoked wheel relies on having all of the spokes in constant tension. A highly dished rear wheel starts with very light tension on the left side spokes. The torque of hard pedaling combined with cyclical weight loading can cause the left side "leading" spokes to occasionally go completely slack momentarily.
Repeated cycles of tension and slackness cause these spokes to fatigue at the bends, and ultimately break.
With half-radial spoking, the amount of dish is very slightly less to begin with if you run the radial spokes up along the inside of its flange ("heads out.") In addition, since there are no "leading" spokes, no amount of torque on the hub can reduce the tension on any of the spokes. In fact, if you have an old wheel that has been breaking left side spokes, "half rebuilding" the wheel into a half radial will solve the problem once and for all.
Wrong-way Half Radial
Sometimes, rear wheels are spoked half-radial with the radial spokes on the right. This is generally done for reasons of improving derailer clearance, particularly on wheels with unusually thick spokes or unusual flange designs. Such wheels require hubs with greater torsional stiffness since most of the driving torque must then be transferred by the left side spokes.
Repeated cycles of tension and slackness cause these spokes to fatigue at the bends, and ultimately break.
With half-radial spoking, the amount of dish is very slightly less to begin with if you run the radial spokes up along the inside of its flange ("heads out.") In addition, since there are no "leading" spokes, no amount of torque on the hub can reduce the tension on any of the spokes. In fact, if you have an old wheel that has been breaking left side spokes, "half rebuilding" the wheel into a half radial will solve the problem once and for all.
Wrong-way Half Radial
Sometimes, rear wheels are spoked half-radial with the radial spokes on the right. This is generally done for reasons of improving derailer clearance, particularly on wheels with unusually thick spokes or unusual flange designs. Such wheels require hubs with greater torsional stiffness since most of the driving torque must then be transferred by the left side spokes.
A radial lacing has the highest lateral strength of any lacing pattern. This is covered in the RADIAL LACING INFORMATION chapter. A multi-speed rear wheel that is half radially laced, with the non drive side being the side with the radial lacing, can only have increased imbalance in the lateral strengths of the two sides of the wheel. The radial spokes on the non drive side will also need a lower build tension when compared to a standard wheel. Since radial lacing has the highest lateral strength, the spokes do not need to be as tight to counter the lateral forces from the drive side in order to achieve a true wheel. Also, with the non drive side spokes even looser than normal, the likelihood that the wheel will go out of true from road shock is increased.
A properly built half radial rear wheel will be radially laced on the drive side. It would also be best to lace the drive side so the spoke heads are on the inside of the flange.
A properly built half radial rear wheel will be radially laced on the drive side. It would also be best to lace the drive side so the spoke heads are on the inside of the flange.
He also reckons there's a better way to balance a rear wheel...
A mixed lacing pattern I discovered that works very well for balancing rear wheel lateral strengths is the 2-cross/3-cross lacing. This pattern uses 2-cross lacing on the non drive side and 3-cross lacing on the drive side. The non drive side spokes end up being shorter than the drive side spokes, a condition that causes theoretical force vector triangles that counteracts the dish offset of the wheel. This theoretical triangle is comprised of the real force vectors of the spokes and a theoretical force vector across the hub.
The figure to the right is a simplified version of the theoretical force vector triangles created by this lacing. The RED lines represent the force vectors of the spokes, and the BLUE line represents the force vector of the theoretical third side of the triangle. The location of a 3-cross length spoke on the non drive side is indicated by the GREEN spoke head for your reference. The PURPLE line, which is perpendicular to the BLUE force vector, indicates that the rim is closer to the non drive side of this theoretical force vector triangle.
Having a theoretical force vector triangle with the opposite circumstances of the actual triangles formed by drive and non drive spoke pairs works against the imbalance caused by the dish offset. A wheel built like this still has the drive side spokes under greater tension, but the difference in the tensions is not as great as they would be if the wheel was laced conventionally. Since the spoke tensions do not vary as much, the wheel has lateral strength characteristics that are more balanced than typical. It has been my experience that these wheels do hold true much better than conventionally laced (all 3-cross) multi-speed rear wheels.
The figure to the right is a simplified version of the theoretical force vector triangles created by this lacing. The RED lines represent the force vectors of the spokes, and the BLUE line represents the force vector of the theoretical third side of the triangle. The location of a 3-cross length spoke on the non drive side is indicated by the GREEN spoke head for your reference. The PURPLE line, which is perpendicular to the BLUE force vector, indicates that the rim is closer to the non drive side of this theoretical force vector triangle.
Having a theoretical force vector triangle with the opposite circumstances of the actual triangles formed by drive and non drive spoke pairs works against the imbalance caused by the dish offset. A wheel built like this still has the drive side spokes under greater tension, but the difference in the tensions is not as great as they would be if the wheel was laced conventionally. Since the spoke tensions do not vary as much, the wheel has lateral strength characteristics that are more balanced than typical. It has been my experience that these wheels do hold true much better than conventionally laced (all 3-cross) multi-speed rear wheels.
If you're not racing on this bike and it's a steel frame, another good way to strengthen your rear wheel is to go to 135mm OLD. If you use an off-centre rim as well, and employ the 2-cross/3-cross pattern, it should be possible to really minimise the tension difference.
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I've never done the calculation but is this correct? When the change from 6/7-speed freewheel/cassettes to 8/9/10-speed cassettes was made, the hubs were widened from 126 to 130 mm OLD and I thought this pretty much compensated for the increased freehub body width so the dish remained about the same.
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I've never done the calculation but is this correct? When the change from 6/7-speed freewheel/cassettes to 8/9/10-speed cassettes was made, the hubs were widened from 126 to 130 mm OLD and I thought this pretty much compensated for the increased freehub body width so the dish remained about the same.
at least, that's what I got when I did a 7sp freehub to 8/9/10sp freehub swap.
not that a 1mm spacer can't be put on the opposite side to make it 3mm extra on the drive side.
the 5mm extra in a 135mm hub is all in the NDS side.
from the measurements taken when converting an XT hub for 130mm.
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Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
https://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm
Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
https://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm
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First things first - what do you weigh?
That aside, Sheldon disagrees with this other bloke over which side to put the radial spokes...
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#half-radial
https://spokeanwheel.110mb.com/lacingsr.htm#hr
He also reckons there's a better way to balance a rear wheel...
https://spokeanwheel.110mb.com/lacingsr.htm#23
If you're not racing on this bike and it's a steel frame, another good way to strengthen your rear wheel is to go to 135mm OLD. If you use an off-centre rim as well, and employ the 2-cross/3-cross pattern, it should be possible to really minimise the tension difference.
That aside, Sheldon disagrees with this other bloke over which side to put the radial spokes...
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#half-radial
https://spokeanwheel.110mb.com/lacingsr.htm#hr
He also reckons there's a better way to balance a rear wheel...
https://spokeanwheel.110mb.com/lacingsr.htm#23
If you're not racing on this bike and it's a steel frame, another good way to strengthen your rear wheel is to go to 135mm OLD. If you use an off-centre rim as well, and employ the 2-cross/3-cross pattern, it should be possible to really minimise the tension difference.
Which side to put the radial lace can be debated. NDS, heads-out does two things: first the clearly pointed out benefit of not having half the spokes go slack due to drive torque, then the less clearly advertised of doing the same thing for the spke brace angle as moving the hub flange half a thickness closer to mid axle.
If you put the radial lace on the DS, heads-in you lose the never going slack feature, but you get the geometric advantage comparabe to moving that hub flange half a thickness further out from mid axle.
And admittedly I haven't done the exact math, but moving the DS a half flange width out will probably do more to improve the geometry than moving the NDS a half flange in.