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Campagnolo 1970's

Old 07-17-19, 05:09 AM
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Campagnolo 1970's

Hi all, trying to match & date some old Campy gear - can any tell the difference between Record & Super Record? Nuovo maybe? By distinguishing visually?
I can't post pics yet, but I have couple of wide flange hubs - front is 32h with no markings other than Campag logo, rear is 36h, also has logo & "RECORD".
I also have pedals that are steel (!?) with Campag details, "Made in Italy" etc. Heavy steel pedals seems unusual to me...(?). They are race-type pedals though with old-style toe clips that wrap over front of foot.
Any help much appreciated!

Cheers, Sam
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Old 07-17-19, 05:27 AM
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Velobase.com is your friend: VeloBase.com - View Brand

Page through it for a few hours, and you should know all the spotters differences for Record / NR / SR, including the few components that were considered "Record" even in the Nuovo Record era and even when bundled with Nuovo Record.

-Kurt
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Old 07-17-19, 05:59 AM
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Thanks I have had a quick look there but didn't find diff's btw SR & Record on hub markings
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Old 07-17-19, 06:28 AM
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IIRC, the hubs are much the same, and are referred to as simply "Record", its the axles and bearing counts that made the difference. there are some differences over the years in the skewers, especially after the CPSC regulations came into effect. Velobase has some links to Campagnolo catalogues, try looking through them to pick out the finer points and differences. @T-Mar can most likely point out the subtle and not so subtle differences without even breaking a sweat.

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Old 07-17-19, 06:49 AM
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I was under the impression that the crank arms, front derailleurs, brake calipers and hub bodies were considered record, and the chainrings, rear derailleur, axles, brake levers, seatposts and bottom brackets were the distinguishing components. Wasn't sure about shift levers.
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Old 07-17-19, 06:59 AM
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Easiest way to date the hubs is to remove the locknuts and check the open format date codes stamped on the back. Hub locknuts don't get replaced very often, so the probability of them not being OEM is very small. However, make sure you check both locknuts on each hub, as Campagnolo wasn't very good with their stock rotation on small parts like these and you often find two different date codes.
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Old 07-17-19, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Arkadin View Post
Thanks I have had a quick look there but didn't find diff's btw SR & Record on hub markings
The only difference between Record and Super Record hubs was the axle. Super Record used a titanium axle, while Record used a steel axle. You can determine this with a magnet; titanium is non-magnetic. But be aware that Super Record hubs were not widely distributed outside of sponsored teams; even OEM manufacturers using Super Record components used Record hubs (and Nuovo Record bottom brackets) on their Super Record spec'ed bikes.
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Old 07-17-19, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
The only difference between Record and Super Record hubs was the axle. Super Record used a titanium axle, while Record used a steel axle. You can determine this with a magnet; titanium is non-magnetic. But be aware that Super Record hubs were not widely distributed outside of sponsored teams; even OEM manufacturers using Super Record components used Record hubs (and Nuovo Record bottom brackets) on their Super Record spec'ed bikes.
My understanding is that Super Record titanium hub axles never actually saw the light of day. Titanium bottom bracket and pedal spindles did. I've never seen even a picture of an actual Campagnolo titanium hub axle.
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Old 07-17-19, 10:46 AM
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Weren’t most of NR and SR parts the same with little touches to lighten them?
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Old 07-17-19, 12:52 PM
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Assuming it is clearly a Record level hub, a logo only hub is the "no 'Record' hub", which dates from '59 to '61. Same hub, very vintage.
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Old 07-17-19, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by jdawginsc View Post
I was under the impression that the crank arms, front derailleurs, brake calipers and hub bodies were considered record, and the chainrings, rear derailleur, axles, brake levers, seatposts and bottom brackets were the distinguishing components. Wasn't sure about shift levers.
Fr D was different. record/nuovo some called it, flat outer cage face until safety changes. Super Record was "different"... Holes in chromed cage face 4 the first year, 3 thereafter. Various little clamp changes from year to year. Black anodized arm available too.

SR was a fashion statement, mostly. Hard to imagine, right? Very small functional changes, half of which either never made it to market, or were stopped/recalled. Aluminum Headset was one real difference. Non fluted cranks too, RD cage......Mandated "safety" changes too. Ho hum.
Beautiful Stuff, though.
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Old 07-17-19, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by jeirvine View Post
My understanding is that Super Record titanium hub axles never actually saw the light of day. Titanium bottom bracket and pedal spindles did. I've never seen even a picture of an actual Campagnolo titanium hub axle.
There was a time when I argued that this broken 26tpi TI axle was probably Campag SR: https://www.bikeforums.net/11549547-post42.html



It matched quite a few details as in the catalog, but there really was no way to tell 100%. Not really worth the effort to find out either.

-Kurt
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Old 07-17-19, 10:12 PM
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Hi everyone, thanks for all the help! I got the 1973 catalogue, but Record & SR hubs look the same (diff Cat #'s though). My axles seem to be steel (magnet test). Locknut on front hub has '63' so assume it's from 1963 (& no 'Record' stamp, just logo). So guess I have a pre-Record front & Record rear; they look a good match too.
If anyone has any info on the steel pedals it'd be much appreciated.
Cheers, Sam.
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Old 07-17-19, 10:29 PM
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SR hubs for all practical purposes don't really exist. They made them for like 5 minutes, and it's still argued as to whether any were actually ever sold. I was a mechanic for 12 years and never saw one. If you do ever happen to see a record hub with a Ti axle, more likely it was one of the aftermarket ones that used to be available.

Practically speaking, the only differences between NR and SR gruppos were seen in the derailleurs, the chainrings, the seatpost, and the brake levers. Everything else the same.

Yeah yeah, you could get SR pedals and BB with the chemically pure Ti snap-O-matic spindles, but it was widely known that this was expensive and dangerous. Like 99% of SR groups sold were the 'reduced' group with SL pedals and a normal record BB.
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Old 07-18-19, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine View Post
SR hubs for all practical purposes don't really exist. They made them for like 5 minutes, and it's still argued as to whether any were actually ever sold. I was a mechanic for 12 years and never saw one. If you do ever happen to see a record hub with a Ti axle, more likely it was one of the aftermarket ones that used to be available.

Practically speaking, the only differences between NR and SR gruppos were seen in the derailleurs, the chainrings, the seatpost, and the brake levers. Everything else the same.

Yeah yeah, you could get SR pedals and BB with the chemically pure Ti snap-O-matic spindles, but it was widely known that this was expensive and dangerous. Like 99% of SR groups sold were the 'reduced' group with SL pedals and a normal record BB.
^
Pretty much this. The hubs came as no-Record and Record. TI-axled SR hubs are a legend that's debatable only because they were cataloged - but if any Campagnolo stamped axles were actually made, nobody on any forum has seen or posted picture proof of one for the last 15+ years.

-Kurt
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Old 07-18-19, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Arkadin View Post
Hi everyone, thanks for all the help! I got the 1973 catalogue, but Record & SR hubs look the same (diff Cat #'s though). My axles seem to be steel (magnet test). Locknut on front hub has '63' so assume it's from 1963 (& no 'Record' stamp, just logo). So guess I have a pre-Record front & Record rear; they look a good match too.
If anyone has any info on the steel pedals it'd be much appreciated.
Cheers, Sam.
Not really "pre Record" front hub, Sam. Same hub but they just stamped them differently back then, with no "Record" stamping on the hub barrel.
Thus the moniker they go by today, as "no Record" hubs.
The pedals with chromed steel cages were pretty much the standard part of the group until they came out with the black anodized aluminum cages, often
referred to as "Super Record". The older ones had chromed steel dust caps, later they went to chromed plastic.
Best pedals ever made, IMO.
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Old 07-18-19, 05:36 AM
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You might find Chuck's Campagnolo timeline helpful. A great resource.

Velo-Retro: Campagnolo Timeline
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Old 07-18-19, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Arkadin View Post
If anyone has any info on the steel pedals it'd be much appreciated.
The chromed steel cage pedals are "Record," the pedals with black anodized aluminum cages and steel axles are "Superleggero" (aka "Record Superlight"), the pedals with black anodized aluminum cages and titanium axles are "Super Record."

N.B. the axles, cones and balls on Record and Superleggero models are interchangeable, but the Super Record pedals use smaller balls, so the axles and cones will not interchange with Record or Superleggero.

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Old 07-18-19, 08:43 AM
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Not worth the effort???

Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
There was a time when I argued that this broken 26tpi TI axle was probably Campag SR: https://www.bikeforums.net/11549547-post42.html



It matched quite a few details as in the catalog, but there really was no way to tell 100%. Not really worth the effort to find out either.

-Kurt
What????

To own the only existing (even if broken) Campy Super Record hub axle in the known universe?

Oh yeah, I forgot. There aren't any...
Never mind.*


* I'm not saying it isn't, Kurt. (Without forensic tracing all the way back to the factory, I'm still at: Never seen a ti hub axle other than the drawing in the catalog.)
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Old 07-18-19, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Last ride 76 View Post
What????

To own the only existing (even if broken) Campy Super Record hub axle in the known universe?

Oh yeah, I forgot. There aren't any...
Never mind.*


* I'm not saying it isn't, Kurt. (Without forensic tracing all the way back to the factory, I'm still at: Never seen a ti hub axle other than the drawing in the catalog.)
I wanted to believe it was not aftermarket when I found the axle (admittedly, it matches the catalog in some details), but now that a few years have gone by, I'm gladly calling BS on myself.

-Kurt
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Old 07-18-19, 02:22 PM
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Thanks for the info on pedals @rootboy @JohnDThompson - they are chrome with metal caps. I always though maybe they were some budget model being heavy steel instead of lightweight aluminium, but apparently built to last. Still seems strange to be saving weight everywhere possible except the pedals, no...?
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Old 07-18-19, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Arkadin View Post
Thanks for the info on pedals @rootboy @JohnDThompson - they are chrome with metal caps. I always though maybe they were some budget model being heavy steel instead of lightweight aluminium, but apparently built to last. Still seems strange to be saving weight everywhere possible except the pedals, no...?
The chromed steel cages held up to the metal slotted shoe cleats people used to use. Those cleats will burn through an aluminum cage pretty fast. Even plastic cleats would wear out an aluminum pedal cage eventually.
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Old 07-18-19, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Arkadin View Post
Hi all, trying to match & date some old Campy gear - can any tell the difference between Record & Super Record? Nuovo maybe? By distinguishing visually?
I can't post pics yet, but I have couple of wide flange hubs - front is 32h with no markings other than Campag logo, rear is 36h, also has logo & "RECORD".
I also have pedals that are steel (!?) with Campag details, "Made in Italy" etc. Heavy steel pedals seems unusual to me...(?). They are race-type pedals though with old-style toe clips that wrap over front of foot.
Any help much appreciated!

Cheers, Sam
Re the pedals: sometimes parts were favored by racers because they were light and sometimes because they were durable. Bitd a lot of stuff stayed in use because everyone knew they could not cause the rider not to finish. Steel cottered cranks held on long after alloy became available.
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Old 07-18-19, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Arkadin View Post
Thanks for the info on pedals @rootboy @JohnDThompson - they are chrome with metal caps. I always though maybe they were some budget model being heavy steel instead of lightweight aluminium, but apparently built to last. Still seems strange to be saving weight everywhere possible except the pedals, no...?
I recently sold a set of those here on Bike Forums that Ive had since 1982,great solid pedal, but I have 2 of the Black Campy Record aluminum pedals already.
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Old 07-18-19, 10:30 PM
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Thanks everyone! Guess I'll stick with the pedals as they seem to be a classic. Would anyone have have a pair of dust caps for a front (32h) high flange front hub? Have looked locally but no luck, also bought some from eBay but they were slightly too large. Cheers, Sam.
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