gmacmt

So I am looking at doing a ~3000-4000 mile ride this summer through scandinavia and western europe on my fixed gear. I am trying to go uber ultra light. I have a question or two about panniers and rackless packs.

So I am trying to be comfortable without sacrificing weight. My bike, fully built with pedals is somewhere in the neighborhood of 15lbs. It is more than strong enough to hold the weight I am planning on putting on it, I am just curious as to where I want the weight located.

I am looking at 10-15 pounds of gear for 50ish days (not credit card, all camping). I know that with a fixed gear in the mountains, I will be doing a lot of standing up and cranking on the pedals, and having bags that inhibit this motion would be less than ideal. Also, I have no capability for a rear rack due to heelstrike, as I am riding the wrong bicycle.

I think I need to have the capacity for about 25-30 litres. Ish.

My biggest caveat: I am going to carry my medium format camera system, a mamiya 7. It weighs as much as my wheelset at just over a kilo, but its a requirement. It is a rangefinder camera, so I cant really just mount it somewhere rigid as if it gets jarred too much it will go out of alignment. I was almost thinking about a small back/fanny pack for it, but that sounds to me like a pain in the ass.


My options so far:

1) Two very small front panniers and an uberlight ront rack from tubus. Something like the LTW small panniers from pacoutdoor.

Pros: Not super heavy with the right panniers, easy access to gear.
Cons: Will it negatively affect my handling? Especially out of seat. Not the lightest.

2) Classic Saddlebag (like the carradice nelson longflap or something)

Pros: Easy Access. Mostly convenience. Decent handling.
Cons: Will likely suck climbing? Is it heavy. I dont want something just flopping around on my seatpost.

3) Revelate Designs. Do something like a 14L seat bag, and a handlebar compression sack.

Pros: Likely the lightest of the bunch. Best handling?
Cons: Miserable access to gear, not that it matters that much, but it can be nice. Not too much extra capacity to throw in some extra gear if the need arises.



Any input greatly appreciated.

bizzz111

Carradice super C with the appropriate carradice seat rack (Q/R is quite nice) works great for me. When it's strapped to the rack it's pretty stable. The other option would be a tubular seat bag that may be a little more stable and lighter, but probably smaller. Epic designs used to make a pretty big tubular seat bag, but I think he now only offers two sizes, the largest about 1/2 the size of the super C. Of course you could pair the tubular bag with one of his handlebar bag things (paired with a drysack) to distribute the weight a bit better.

bobbycorno

IME, the front lowrider / pannier setup has the least negative impact on handling and in fact improves stability. The rule of thumb seems to be the closer the weight is to the steering axis, the better, and front panniers put the weight right there.

SP
Bend, OR

fietsbob

Saddle bag, as above + a handle bar bag + a comfortable money belt .. since that is the weight savings,
buying food and shelter as you go.. , you have to make the next village , though,.. book ahead ?

gmacmt

Fiets, not CC touring. I will have a tent/bag/pad.

bobby, good to know. It is also the cheapest option. It looks like I can be ~3.5 pounds on a rack/two panniers combo that will bring my capacity to 40L. Way too much, but I dont have to fill it all. Anyone know of issues with a front rack/carbon fork? Obviously there are no eyelets, but that is easy enough to get around. There would likely be ~7 pounds gear or less on each fork arm.

Thanks for the input so far.

LeeG

tiny front rack that mounts to top of fork blades with p-clamps and under fork crown, hopefully you've got 3/16" of room to do that otherwise on brake bolt hole. No panniers at all, pile two compression sacks on that strapped between rack and underside of bars. Some kind of seat bag or minimal rack combo for putting gear on rack up against seat. Not a bag that hangs from the seat but a bag/seat or rack combo that does not sway at all and is strapped down. If your camera can't handle vibration there's only one place to put it, on you either a fanny pack or narrow minimalist back pack like the kind meant to hold water bladders.

positron

good luck, but this plan seems... flawed.

I for one would love to see a gear list. I bet you cant do it (comfortably) with less than 20 lbs, not including the mamiya...

add packs, at least a couple pounds- if you need front racks add a few more. all of a sudden you are at 30 lbs...

im not trying to be negative, I just dont think this will work as well as you want.

10 Wheels

Op, can you Post a photo of your bike as it right now?

10 Wheels

I did this with my racing bike.

gmacmt

Positron, the weight I listed, ~15lbs, was without including the weight of the bags. That is just the stuff that will go in them.
The mamiya is going to make it tricky. That is not calculated into my overall weight, so you are right, will likely be around 20 w/ lens and film.

My tent pad and bag weigh in at 4.4 pounds. From there, it just depends on how much I want to sacrifice in regards to clothing and whatnot. I have to plan for rain, so my raingear wont be light if I want to be comfortable. I am only bringing 1 pair of shoes (for riding). Probably a pair of zipoff pants and one pair riding shorts. Some lightweight shirts. An ultralightweight down jacket (157grams). Then add a few pairs of socks, and a hat. Other than that, a minimal parts kit (as I will never be traveling remotely), toiletries, and random other junk. I think I can swing a sub 40 pound rolling weight pretty easy.

Absolutely no cooking gear. Too big and too much weight. I am fine eating PB&J.

I work at an outdoor gear shop, so I have access to a lot of ultralight stuff super cheap, which helps.

No photos of current build, as it is still being built. But I assure you it would be met with much dismay and contempt. Its a stupid bike to ride. (Think slight pursuit geometry. I know, its a bad idea) I will post photos closer to the date so that noone convinces me to go against my poor judgement

Here are some photos from my first tour, where I didnt emphasize ultralightweight anywhere near as much as I am now. This was solo, unsupported mexico to canada. Note the "sparse" wheelset and race tires. Not one mechanical the entire 2000 miles. Something like 3 flats and one tire replacement, only because the previous set had ~5k on them. The only work I had done was a rear wheel true. Averaging ~100mi/day.

I manufactured this sheetmetal rack system which later (about 1k miles) proved to be an utter failure. There is really nothing inside of them in this photo.



Then, once they failed, I switched to panniers. ALL of my stuff could fit into one of these, but I hated the weight distribution so I ran both half full. I know I can pack more efficiently this time.

fietsbob

But... Those are no longer 15 pound bikes.

gmacmt

?

The new bike base weight is 15lb, and the bike pictured is not the bike I will be riding. I am not talking about 15lb fully loaded.

positron

To clarify, I applaud the effort. I have ridden fixed long-distances around europe quite a bit- just trying to be realistic I guess.

I would really recommend at least a comfortable road geometry fixed wheel bike. Not some track/pursuit geos... there will be a huge difference in comfort between the bike you show and the bike you describe/plan for.

fietsbob

get your gear down to where it all fits in 2 Ortlieb front rollers , and a stuff sack , drybag?
that you can put on the location where a saddle bag would go, like on a small rear minirack.
Its high enough to prevent heel strike. rigidly secure the stuff sack to the rack so it won't sway.
[I own a Carridura big saddle bag, they sew a pocket in the bottom of the bag,
for the mini-rack, included, to fit in, so it wont sway.
got mine in 91, I see the rack has changed, some.]

camera access benefits a bar bag .. feed bag on the road..

FWIW, Ortlieb's plus fabric weighs less, than the classic, but finished goods cost more ..

gmacmt

Thanks man, I think I read into it too much as a bit of an attack.

I know it makes way more sense, but the bike I ride there is what I will be riding at home. I have a cinelli mash, which while it looks quite aggro, is pretty darn comfortable. Aside from its immediate hipster connotations, I quite like it.

LeeG

given your frame size you don't have a lot of room between seat and rear tire which makes some kind of rear rack or bag support advantageous. Get rid of tool bag under seat and cram a spare tube into two plastic baggies and strap it under the seattube/seatstay cluster but make absolutely sure it can't fall into the tire. Two velcro straps might do it. with the bags double wrapped with a wide rubber band. One to the seat tube and one over the top tube, maybe a couple zip-ties on the seat tube to act as stops for the package. Or if there's room right between the seat rails for a spare tube held with strap. The idea is to do away with specialized containers and strap the necessary item straight to the bike.
You've got useful space underneath your seat so whatever is on that rack could be pulled forward just to where it touches your thighs. Do you really need two waterbottles? It might be possible to utilize one liter bottle and use the other space for a small compression sack of jacket/pants. If you're always within a couple hours of water it shouldn't be a problem to manage with a liter bottle. Unless it's stinking hot and you're going through more than a liter an hour.

gmacmt

more accurate image of current bike (although this is not my build, just same size and frame)

fietsbob

No fork tip eyelets, wrong bike, for the job. no frickin brakes!

Fools errand.. how about get a 3 speed and take your time?
It's a Tour .. see where you are going thru , studmuffin ..

shipwreck

I totaly agree with fietsbob.
However..
I have done some very light touring, and what I consider to be not so light touring but a heck of a lot lighter than most full loads. I use some bags that I made, cause I am broke and I could.

This is my spring fall lightish weight setup, with tent, pad and larger bag. Fourteen pounds of gearnot counting water. in the middle of summer I just take a hammock and a silk sheet, about ten pounds of gear. Just sandals, one set of off bike clothes(homemade for low weight and packing)and two sets of shorts. Wood stove, pot, soap, strait razor, spork, some tools/first aid, plastic rain covers, Rain jacket, two water bottles and a dromodary bag, tea bags, Stovetop stuffing/other light emergency food, thats about it. This setup above rides very well, despite its topheavy look. The bike is a mid eightys steel rig, with 40rear 36front spokes, and compared to your cinelli is a limo.

And even with me doing this, I think that there is a reason why some bikes are better for touring than others. I have toured on fixed for short distances, but on a bike with slack angles. the only way to get your bike to carry a load well would be to get a frame bag, or do like 10 wheels and just lash it into the diamond.

Here is a link to a crazy ultralight guy. https://ultralightcycling.blogspot.com/

indyfabz

That's it? I carried a Mamiya 645 with the metered finder and power grip (5 AAs in that sucker) along with 55mm, 80mm and 150mm lenses AND a Nikon 6006 with a 35-80mm lens for over 5,000 miles up hill into a headwind while wearing newspaper for shoes. Wimp.

That's all true except for the all uphill-headwind-newspaper part. Take good care of that thing. While I am not a huge fan of them, the fanny pack sounds like it might be the best option. Lower Pro used to make camera-specific fanny-type carrying bags. (Don't know if they are still around.) If anything, a fanny pack provides accesibility, which might make all the difference.

Another option is a CamelBack with storage space for camera plus more. Before I ever tried a CamelBack I just knew I would hate it. Then I bought one out of necessity while travelling in warm, hilly southern Spain. I found I did not mind it and now tour with one regularly, albeit a relatively small one.

Good luck and get some nice images.

LeeG

oh I did miss the detail fixed gear. I thought singlespeed. 3000-4000miles. Seems to me when the goal is that big he should be encouraged to go for the gusto. Personally I think coasting is the reward for climbing and fixed gear is what you use for track riding.

10 Wheels

OP. I am all for touring on any bike. Have fun with it.

MichaelW

I would concur with the Wrong Bike crowd. If you want to go fixed then an old-school steel road bike with horizontal dropouts and rack eyelets is probably the best bet.
I did the North Sea Cycle Route last summer and you can do it on fixed gear until a bit of the way into Norway then it gets gravely and steep.
A lot of the Danish route is on gravel but mostly flat.

Note in Denmark there is a network of primitive campsite with wooden shelters and water supply and if you are lucky, a primitive toilet. You need the guide book (from larger tourist info) and it is only in Danish.

shipwreck

Just remembered these guys https://carouseldesignworks.com/ Used for ultra light bikepacking.

nun

Heavy camera, track bike with no picture of the OP's actual bike, vague gear list.....do I smell a troll......help us out here with an exact gear list with manufacturers and model numbers and could you use your camera to take a picture of your actual bike and post it. Your base weight of 15lbs without cooking equipment and not including bags and racks is very doable, but volume is as important as weight when it comes to figuring out how to carry stuff so you need an accurate gear list and a good idea of where everything will fit.