Frame size for a disproportionate body
04-24-17, 12:01 AM
#26
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Drashkum,
I have similar body proportions (6' tall, 35.25" inseam), and certainly understand your frustration. After quite a bit of trial and error, and a lot of reading, I think I've finally dialed in a decent fit for myself. Unfortunately, the bike fit depends a lot on your individual body and flexibility. How much stretching / core strengthening work have you done / are doing? I noticed a huge increase in my comfort after just spending 10-15 minutes stretching and working on core strengthening maybe 2 times a week. I'm sure I would get even more benefit if I was more diligent about the exercises. I've been able to drop my handlebars approx. 1.5", and fitted a 1 cm longer stem and maintained the same comfort level.
How much weight your hands are bearing depends on the interplay between your saddle fore-aft position, your body weight distribution, and the strength / tone of your back / torso muscles. If your muscles are perfectly strong, then how much weight your hands bear is only an issue of how your center of gravity is positioned over the bottom bracket. Too far forward, and and you will tip forward unless your hands resist it. Too far backward and the opposite is true. Unfortunately for most of us, our muscles aren't that strong, so if our upper body is leaning forward at all, some or all of that weight of our upper bodies being cantilevered out over the saddle will wind up being supported by our hands. The solution(s) for this is to either 1) improve your muscle strength through exercises, or 2) get the bars closer and or higher so your upper body is more upright. (This will probably mean a new bike in your case.) Generally, the advice is to move your saddle back to get weight off your hands, but if you can't move the bars back at the same time, usually the increased leaning of your upper body will negate any benefit. You might be better off actually moving your saddle forward. (Ideally, you position the saddle for maximum pedaling efficiency, then move the bars as necessary. In your case, that may not be possible with an off the shelf production frame. You may have to compromise both your saddle and bar position a bit to achieve the best comfort.)
Lastly, have you read through the suggestions in the link above about hand numbness? Some relatively small changes in hand / lever positioning can make a big difference in where pressure is being applied. Even padding on the bars / gloves can make a difference, but not necessarily how you would imagine. It's actually similar to padding on saddles. Lots of padding feels great for a little while, but can be worse in the long run, as the padding distributes pressure evenly over both the bony protrusions, and the soft tissues in between. That's one of the reasons a Brooks Pro, while being hard as a rock, can be very comfortable for hours in the saddle. Overly padded bars and gloves are the same. If you were riding bare handed on bare bars, you would want to ride with most of the pressure on the outer areas of your wrist, where it is pretty nerve free. With lots of padding, it will seem like the pressure is less, because that padding is distributing the pressure over a larger area on your wrist, probably increasing pressure on your nerves, and leading to problems.
I have similar body proportions (6' tall, 35.25" inseam), and certainly understand your frustration. After quite a bit of trial and error, and a lot of reading, I think I've finally dialed in a decent fit for myself. Unfortunately, the bike fit depends a lot on your individual body and flexibility. How much stretching / core strengthening work have you done / are doing? I noticed a huge increase in my comfort after just spending 10-15 minutes stretching and working on core strengthening maybe 2 times a week. I'm sure I would get even more benefit if I was more diligent about the exercises. I've been able to drop my handlebars approx. 1.5", and fitted a 1 cm longer stem and maintained the same comfort level.
How much weight your hands are bearing depends on the interplay between your saddle fore-aft position, your body weight distribution, and the strength / tone of your back / torso muscles. If your muscles are perfectly strong, then how much weight your hands bear is only an issue of how your center of gravity is positioned over the bottom bracket. Too far forward, and and you will tip forward unless your hands resist it. Too far backward and the opposite is true. Unfortunately for most of us, our muscles aren't that strong, so if our upper body is leaning forward at all, some or all of that weight of our upper bodies being cantilevered out over the saddle will wind up being supported by our hands. The solution(s) for this is to either 1) improve your muscle strength through exercises, or 2) get the bars closer and or higher so your upper body is more upright. (This will probably mean a new bike in your case.) Generally, the advice is to move your saddle back to get weight off your hands, but if you can't move the bars back at the same time, usually the increased leaning of your upper body will negate any benefit. You might be better off actually moving your saddle forward. (Ideally, you position the saddle for maximum pedaling efficiency, then move the bars as necessary. In your case, that may not be possible with an off the shelf production frame. You may have to compromise both your saddle and bar position a bit to achieve the best comfort.)
Lastly, have you read through the suggestions in the link above about hand numbness? Some relatively small changes in hand / lever positioning can make a big difference in where pressure is being applied. Even padding on the bars / gloves can make a difference, but not necessarily how you would imagine. It's actually similar to padding on saddles. Lots of padding feels great for a little while, but can be worse in the long run, as the padding distributes pressure evenly over both the bony protrusions, and the soft tissues in between. That's one of the reasons a Brooks Pro, while being hard as a rock, can be very comfortable for hours in the saddle. Overly padded bars and gloves are the same. If you were riding bare handed on bare bars, you would want to ride with most of the pressure on the outer areas of your wrist, where it is pretty nerve free. With lots of padding, it will seem like the pressure is less, because that padding is distributing the pressure over a larger area on your wrist, probably increasing pressure on your nerves, and leading to problems.
04-24-17, 04:48 PM
#27
Senior Member
I see a lot of humor in suggesting you see a doc and finding out you're an orthopedic surgeon who's BTDT.
If too many of people who read or post on the 'over 50' forum find out about your participation, we'll be consulting with you over the 'net....
If too many of people who read or post on the 'over 50' forum find out about your participation, we'll be consulting with you over the 'net....
04-27-17, 11:28 PM
#28
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Drashkum,
I have similar body proportions (6' tall, 35.25" inseam), and certainly understand your frustration. After quite a bit of trial and error, and a lot of reading, I think I've finally dialed in a decent fit for myself. Unfortunately, the bike fit depends a lot on your individual body and flexibility. How much stretching / core strengthening work have you done / are doing? I noticed a huge increase in my comfort after just spending 10-15 minutes stretching and working on core strengthening maybe 2 times a week. I'm sure I would get even more benefit if I was more diligent about the exercises. I've been able to drop my handlebars approx. 1.5", and fitted a 1 cm longer stem and maintained the same comfort level.
How much weight your hands are bearing depends on the interplay between your saddle fore-aft position, your body weight distribution, and the strength / tone of your back / torso muscles. If your muscles are perfectly strong, then how much weight your hands bear is only an issue of how your center of gravity is positioned over the bottom bracket. Too far forward, and and you will tip forward unless your hands resist it. Too far backward and the opposite is true. Unfortunately for most of us, our muscles aren't that strong, so if our upper body is leaning forward at all, some or all of that weight of our upper bodies being cantilevered out over the saddle will wind up being supported by our hands. The solution(s) for this is to either 1) improve your muscle strength through exercises, or 2) get the bars closer and or higher so your upper body is more upright. (This will probably mean a new bike in your case.) Generally, the advice is to move your saddle back to get weight off your hands, but if you can't move the bars back at the same time, usually the increased leaning of your upper body will negate any benefit. You might be better off actually moving your saddle forward. (Ideally, you position the saddle for maximum pedaling efficiency, then move the bars as necessary. In your case, that may not be possible with an off the shelf production frame. You may have to compromise both your saddle and bar position a bit to achieve the best comfort.)
Lastly, have you read through the suggestions in the link above about hand numbness? Some relatively small changes in hand / lever positioning can make a big difference in where pressure is being applied. Even padding on the bars / gloves can make a difference, but not necessarily how you would imagine. It's actually similar to padding on saddles. Lots of padding feels great for a little while, but can be worse in the long run, as the padding distributes pressure evenly over both the bony protrusions, and the soft tissues in between. That's one of the reasons a Brooks Pro, while being hard as a rock, can be very comfortable for hours in the saddle. Overly padded bars and gloves are the same. If you were riding bare handed on bare bars, you would want to ride with most of the pressure on the outer areas of your wrist, where it is pretty nerve free. With lots of padding, it will seem like the pressure is less, because that padding is distributing the pressure over a larger area on your wrist, probably increasing pressure on your nerves, and leading to problems.
I have similar body proportions (6' tall, 35.25" inseam), and certainly understand your frustration. After quite a bit of trial and error, and a lot of reading, I think I've finally dialed in a decent fit for myself. Unfortunately, the bike fit depends a lot on your individual body and flexibility. How much stretching / core strengthening work have you done / are doing? I noticed a huge increase in my comfort after just spending 10-15 minutes stretching and working on core strengthening maybe 2 times a week. I'm sure I would get even more benefit if I was more diligent about the exercises. I've been able to drop my handlebars approx. 1.5", and fitted a 1 cm longer stem and maintained the same comfort level.
How much weight your hands are bearing depends on the interplay between your saddle fore-aft position, your body weight distribution, and the strength / tone of your back / torso muscles. If your muscles are perfectly strong, then how much weight your hands bear is only an issue of how your center of gravity is positioned over the bottom bracket. Too far forward, and and you will tip forward unless your hands resist it. Too far backward and the opposite is true. Unfortunately for most of us, our muscles aren't that strong, so if our upper body is leaning forward at all, some or all of that weight of our upper bodies being cantilevered out over the saddle will wind up being supported by our hands. The solution(s) for this is to either 1) improve your muscle strength through exercises, or 2) get the bars closer and or higher so your upper body is more upright. (This will probably mean a new bike in your case.) Generally, the advice is to move your saddle back to get weight off your hands, but if you can't move the bars back at the same time, usually the increased leaning of your upper body will negate any benefit. You might be better off actually moving your saddle forward. (Ideally, you position the saddle for maximum pedaling efficiency, then move the bars as necessary. In your case, that may not be possible with an off the shelf production frame. You may have to compromise both your saddle and bar position a bit to achieve the best comfort.)
Lastly, have you read through the suggestions in the link above about hand numbness? Some relatively small changes in hand / lever positioning can make a big difference in where pressure is being applied. Even padding on the bars / gloves can make a difference, but not necessarily how you would imagine. It's actually similar to padding on saddles. Lots of padding feels great for a little while, but can be worse in the long run, as the padding distributes pressure evenly over both the bony protrusions, and the soft tissues in between. That's one of the reasons a Brooks Pro, while being hard as a rock, can be very comfortable for hours in the saddle. Overly padded bars and gloves are the same. If you were riding bare handed on bare bars, you would want to ride with most of the pressure on the outer areas of your wrist, where it is pretty nerve free. With lots of padding, it will seem like the pressure is less, because that padding is distributing the pressure over a larger area on your wrist, probably increasing pressure on your nerves, and leading to problems.
Drashkum
04-28-17, 07:51 AM
#29
Senior Member
I was more thinking it's rare for an orthopod to out himeslf, but it's not rare for over-50s to have orthopedic problems, at least potentially.
(signed) phil ... who will probably have his 2nd basal joint arthroscopy in January....
(signed) phil ... who will probably have his 2nd basal joint arthroscopy in January....
05-04-17, 12:29 AM
#30
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Update:
I have finally fit my 70mm 35 degree angled stem today and i am yet to ride yet on my bike as i am occupied by work. Will ride over the next weekend and get back to you.
On the Other side too i have been researching for Bikes with taller stack and shorter or smaller reach.
I have a few doubts too which probably need a bit of clarity
1) Given that my inseam is pretty big, is it fair enough to look for frames with bigger sizing with same or a slightly smaller reach so that i can sit a bit more upright with same reach ( that can be even brought down with a shorter reach handlebars/ shorter stem) so that i wouldn't be bending and putting so much weight on my hands since increase in stack with same reach would bring up the handlebars a bit more up
For example Trek Domane 56 size has a Stack of 591 and reach of 377 when compared to my present bike Merida ride 500 ( S of 570 and R of 377)
I also found out a site
https://www.bikegeo.net/
which allows me to compare not only the frames geometry, reach and stack but also the anticipated reach and stack with different size spacers and stems on the bike and when i plotted my present merida 500 size 52 with Trek Domane 54 an 56 with reduced stem size of 80 this is what i get
size 56 Domane S5/ SL/ SLR gives me a effective reduction of 2cm in reach and also 2cm increase in stack with 80 mm stem
When i went to LBS for fitting my stem they fed my body measurements in the software and checked my flexibility and gave me this
and suggested Trek Domane but 54 size but when i plotted that in the above website it shows as similar geo comparable to my merida ride size 52 which i think is a no brainer. Am i correct?
So based on need for reduced reach and increased stack i have zeroed in on a few bikes which i can plan to buy if all experiment with my angled stem goes right
Domane SLR 56 frame Reach377 Stack 391 My first choice
I also saw a Endurance bike with aero tubes and aero seat post and Aero seat tube cutout which i love
https://www.kestrelbicycles.com/road/...himano-ultegra
It is Kestrel RT1000 Bike Size 56 Stack of 588 Reach of 375. It has a taller head tube and similar stack and reach as Trek domane. Is this a good bike? I haven't heard of it.
Cannondale synapse carbon 54 R 376 S 576 ( May need to use a stem riser again)
Izalco ergo ride medium But i am not sure if this is available now
Jamis endura 54 S578 R367. This is a women's bike as someone had suggested.
Do u guys think this is the right way to go?
Please advise
I have finally fit my 70mm 35 degree angled stem today and i am yet to ride yet on my bike as i am occupied by work. Will ride over the next weekend and get back to you.
On the Other side too i have been researching for Bikes with taller stack and shorter or smaller reach.
I have a few doubts too which probably need a bit of clarity
1) Given that my inseam is pretty big, is it fair enough to look for frames with bigger sizing with same or a slightly smaller reach so that i can sit a bit more upright with same reach ( that can be even brought down with a shorter reach handlebars/ shorter stem) so that i wouldn't be bending and putting so much weight on my hands since increase in stack with same reach would bring up the handlebars a bit more up
For example Trek Domane 56 size has a Stack of 591 and reach of 377 when compared to my present bike Merida ride 500 ( S of 570 and R of 377)
I also found out a site
https://www.bikegeo.net/
which allows me to compare not only the frames geometry, reach and stack but also the anticipated reach and stack with different size spacers and stems on the bike and when i plotted my present merida 500 size 52 with Trek Domane 54 an 56 with reduced stem size of 80 this is what i get
size 56 Domane S5/ SL/ SLR gives me a effective reduction of 2cm in reach and also 2cm increase in stack with 80 mm stem
When i went to LBS for fitting my stem they fed my body measurements in the software and checked my flexibility and gave me this
and suggested Trek Domane but 54 size but when i plotted that in the above website it shows as similar geo comparable to my merida ride size 52 which i think is a no brainer. Am i correct?
So based on need for reduced reach and increased stack i have zeroed in on a few bikes which i can plan to buy if all experiment with my angled stem goes right
Domane SLR 56 frame Reach377 Stack 391 My first choice
I also saw a Endurance bike with aero tubes and aero seat post and Aero seat tube cutout which i love
https://www.kestrelbicycles.com/road/...himano-ultegra
It is Kestrel RT1000 Bike Size 56 Stack of 588 Reach of 375. It has a taller head tube and similar stack and reach as Trek domane. Is this a good bike? I haven't heard of it.
Cannondale synapse carbon 54 R 376 S 576 ( May need to use a stem riser again)
Izalco ergo ride medium But i am not sure if this is available now
Jamis endura 54 S578 R367. This is a women's bike as someone had suggested.
Do u guys think this is the right way to go?
Please advise
Last edited by Drashkum; 05-04-17 at 12:37 AM.
05-05-17, 09:39 PM
#31
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Drashkum, your photo says a lot. First, your arms are proportional to your legs, longer than average. They push your back upright, higher than it wants to be. Second, you're holding your head down, almost lower than your shoulders, and your back is hunched. That's your back muscles trying to find power that's not there because your hands aren't in the right position for pulling. Third, you appear to be sitting in the back seat. That's because your back is upright, throwing your center of gravity back.
My advice is to accommodate your long arms by getting your hands lower. Use the original stem, flip it down, and get your brake hoods at least a few cm lower than the saddle. Second, look at your fore-and-aft weight distribution. Your center of gravity should be roughly over the balls of your feet. Lowering the torso will get you part way there, but you might want to move the saddle forward a bit too.
I have similar proportions, and I never got comfortable until I lowered the handlebar so the brake hoods were about 7-10 cm lower than the saddle. This has been my general position for about 45 years. And I only experience symptoms similar to yours when I demo bikes with the so-called "endurance" geometry. My hands, arms, and shoulders are pushing up while my lower back is pushing down.
Ultimately, you want to find a position that feels balanced, in control, nimble and athletic. This is about finding where your hips and hands want to be, not following prescriptions.
For models, look at photos of old lanky pro cyclists. Eddy Merckx, Fausto Coppi, Ercole Baldini, and Hugo Koblet were my models. Looking at riders from the 50s through the 70s works better because their positions were more moderate than contemporary pros'.
My advice is to accommodate your long arms by getting your hands lower. Use the original stem, flip it down, and get your brake hoods at least a few cm lower than the saddle. Second, look at your fore-and-aft weight distribution. Your center of gravity should be roughly over the balls of your feet. Lowering the torso will get you part way there, but you might want to move the saddle forward a bit too.
I have similar proportions, and I never got comfortable until I lowered the handlebar so the brake hoods were about 7-10 cm lower than the saddle. This has been my general position for about 45 years. And I only experience symptoms similar to yours when I demo bikes with the so-called "endurance" geometry. My hands, arms, and shoulders are pushing up while my lower back is pushing down.
Ultimately, you want to find a position that feels balanced, in control, nimble and athletic. This is about finding where your hips and hands want to be, not following prescriptions.
For models, look at photos of old lanky pro cyclists. Eddy Merckx, Fausto Coppi, Ercole Baldini, and Hugo Koblet were my models. Looking at riders from the 50s through the 70s works better because their positions were more moderate than contemporary pros'.
05-06-17, 08:46 PM
#32
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I have the same problem. Thanks for the thread. Lots of good info here. I went with a professional bike fit but I still have issues. I feel like custom might be the only way to go. Even then, getting low and aero is going to be more difficult for me because my legs always close my diaphram.
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