Flat crits for ever?
#1
Gios my baby
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,135
Bikes: Gios 96, Mercier 72, Peugeot 74 X 2, Sears full suspension High rise banana seat, Kona 94, CCM Rambler 70s.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Flat crits for ever?
I got dropped on my first two road races and one crit with hills (cat 4/5s). last weekend I did one of them road races. The hills clobbered me. DNF. I'm so bummed about it that I can't even write a report. But wait, there's more: I'm built like a climber.
I have more hill work to do. Yay. I will be doomed to flat crits for ever if I can't hang in on the hills. Boo Hoo.
Seriously thinking of doing triathalons. No. Seriously.
One cool thing I can report, On the second big hill about 10 km into the race, a real steep grinder, everyoune out of the saddle in the 39/25, this guy in front missed his shift and stopped dead in front of me, I swerved neatly around him and a couple of guys behind had to stop"Sorry, crunch, oh, ah,". I imagine they had a hard time getting going again on that hill. It was that steep.
The front group wisely attacked on cresting the hill. I and a bunch made up the second group. We ran a fast pace line to catch up. At km 15 a now splintered group and I finaly caught up to the pack. Just on catching up, more hills did me in.
I have more hill work to do. Yay. I will be doomed to flat crits for ever if I can't hang in on the hills. Boo Hoo.
Seriously thinking of doing triathalons. No. Seriously.
One cool thing I can report, On the second big hill about 10 km into the race, a real steep grinder, everyoune out of the saddle in the 39/25, this guy in front missed his shift and stopped dead in front of me, I swerved neatly around him and a couple of guys behind had to stop"Sorry, crunch, oh, ah,". I imagine they had a hard time getting going again on that hill. It was that steep.
The front group wisely attacked on cresting the hill. I and a bunch made up the second group. We ran a fast pace line to catch up. At km 15 a now splintered group and I finaly caught up to the pack. Just on catching up, more hills did me in.
#2
Geosynchronous Falconeer
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 6,312
Bikes: 2006 Raleigh Rush Hour, Campy Habanero Team Ti, Soma Double Cross
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Many people get dropped in their first few races. I did. Keep training. You'll get faster.
__________________
Bring the pain.
Bring the pain.
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SoCal Baby
Posts: 2,137
Bikes: o5 Specilized roubaix Comp, 06 Tequilo
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
You have the build of a climber now you need the heart of a climber. You will find it on your training hill...every day. Racers are not made on the flats. They are forged in the mountains or on a track.
#4
Edificating
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland
Posts: 2,452
Bikes: Spooky + Sachs
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Flat races are just as hard... sometimes harder... If races were easy they would not be fun.
__________________
Cat 3 // Dylan M Howell
Cat 3 // Dylan M Howell
#5
Used to be a climber..
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Santa Clarita, CA
Posts: 6,849
Bikes: 2016 Ridley Fenix SL, 2020 Trek Emonda ALR (rim brake)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
3 Posts
I'm built like a climber too, with about 10 pounds of extra fat on my ass....and got handily dropped on a sprint up a "power climb" this past weekend in my second ever race, first road race. Don't feel bad....the ensuing massive amounts of pain you are about to experience while trying to chase will make you stronger.
At least it seems to be working for me. I went from getting dropped off the back of the peloton in my first race in 10 minutes, and in the second race, I was in the group for nearly an hour.
It's discouraging....hell, as I watched the peloton slowly drift away from me on Sunday, I seriously thought about the fact that maybe I'm not quite cut out for this, but I kept my head down and kept hammering, and actually did better than I thought I did.
I guess the trick now would be to identify your weaknesses, now that you have an idea what you would need to "zero" in on in order to hang, and work on those.
At least it seems to be working for me. I went from getting dropped off the back of the peloton in my first race in 10 minutes, and in the second race, I was in the group for nearly an hour.
It's discouraging....hell, as I watched the peloton slowly drift away from me on Sunday, I seriously thought about the fact that maybe I'm not quite cut out for this, but I kept my head down and kept hammering, and actually did better than I thought I did.
I guess the trick now would be to identify your weaknesses, now that you have an idea what you would need to "zero" in on in order to hang, and work on those.
#6
Aut Vincere Aut Mori
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 4,166
Bikes: Irish Cycles Tir na Nog, Jack Kane Team Racing, Fuji Aloha 1.0, GT Karakoram, Motobecane Fly Team
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Originally Posted by hiromian
Seriously thinking of doing triathalons. No. Seriously.
Now that you're over that passing bit of silliness we can get back to the topic
It just sounds like you need to work on your overall fitness a little bit more. I'm a bigger guy, but my VO2 system is my best trained system, and thus I don't get dropped on anything save for truly epic climbs.
I'd give the 3-8 minute VO2 lovin' a shot for a few weeks. I think you'll be happy with what you see.
#7
Used to be a climber..
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Santa Clarita, CA
Posts: 6,849
Bikes: 2016 Ridley Fenix SL, 2020 Trek Emonda ALR (rim brake)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
3 Posts
I really need to work on my VO2 system as well....been doing that the last 2 weeks, and am again debating on blowing off the group ride tomorrow to kick my own ass on the trainer with a very high intensity VO2 workout...
#8
Gios my baby
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,135
Bikes: Gios 96, Mercier 72, Peugeot 74 X 2, Sears full suspension High rise banana seat, Kona 94, CCM Rambler 70s.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by GuitarWizard
I'm built like a climber too, with about 10 pounds of extra fat on my ass....and got handily dropped on a sprint up a "power climb" this past weekend in my second ever race, first road race. Don't feel bad....the ensuing massive amounts of pain you are about to experience while trying to chase will make you stronger.
At least it seems to be working for me. I went from getting dropped off the back of the peloton in my first race in 10 minutes, and in the second race, I was in the group for nearly an hour.
It's discouraging....hell, as I watched the peloton slowly drift away from me on Sunday, I seriously thought about the fact that maybe I'm not quite cut out for this, but I kept my head down and kept hammering, and actually did better than I thought I did.
I guess the trick now would be to identify your weaknesses, now that you have an idea what you would need to "zero" in on in order to hang, and work on those.
At least it seems to be working for me. I went from getting dropped off the back of the peloton in my first race in 10 minutes, and in the second race, I was in the group for nearly an hour.
It's discouraging....hell, as I watched the peloton slowly drift away from me on Sunday, I seriously thought about the fact that maybe I'm not quite cut out for this, but I kept my head down and kept hammering, and actually did better than I thought I did.
I guess the trick now would be to identify your weaknesses, now that you have an idea what you would need to "zero" in on in order to hang, and work on those.
#9
Gios my baby
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,135
Bikes: Gios 96, Mercier 72, Peugeot 74 X 2, Sears full suspension High rise banana seat, Kona 94, CCM Rambler 70s.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by dmotoguy
Flat races are just as hard... sometimes harder... If races were easy they would not be fun.
#10
Gios my baby
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,135
Bikes: Gios 96, Mercier 72, Peugeot 74 X 2, Sears full suspension High rise banana seat, Kona 94, CCM Rambler 70s.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus
Stop it.
Now that you're over that passing bit of silliness we can get back to the topic
It just sounds like you need to work on your overall fitness a little bit more. I'm a bigger guy, but my VO2 system is my best trained system, and thus I don't get dropped on anything save for truly epic climbs.
I'd give the 3-8 minute VO2 lovin' a shot for a few weeks. I think you'll be happy with what you see.
Now that you're over that passing bit of silliness we can get back to the topic
It just sounds like you need to work on your overall fitness a little bit more. I'm a bigger guy, but my VO2 system is my best trained system, and thus I don't get dropped on anything save for truly epic climbs.
I'd give the 3-8 minute VO2 lovin' a shot for a few weeks. I think you'll be happy with what you see.
#11
Aut Vincere Aut Mori
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 4,166
Bikes: Irish Cycles Tir na Nog, Jack Kane Team Racing, Fuji Aloha 1.0, GT Karakoram, Motobecane Fly Team
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
3 to 8 minutes, as hard as you can go. I like 5 minute intervals. 4-5 sets per workout should be plenty. Do them where ever you can pull them off. A long hill, a flat, ...the trainer...
You should come close to, or hit your MHR.
You should come close to, or hit your MHR.
#12
Gios my baby
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,135
Bikes: Gios 96, Mercier 72, Peugeot 74 X 2, Sears full suspension High rise banana seat, Kona 94, CCM Rambler 70s.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Ok thanks Snuf. I have done plenty of 6 X 1 min intervals 1 X per week.. Now I will do 3 X 8 min intervals, 2 X per week, a weekend hill climb and the flat crit Thursday nighter. That'l lern me.
#13
Hills are good
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pleasant Hill, California
Posts: 101
Bikes: Cannondale, Old Univega
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
And the next hilly race you do, be sure to be right near the front at the bottom of the hill so you can "drift" back a bit going up the hill without getting dropped. Every little bit helps.
#14
pan y agua
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,303
Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1447 Post(s)
Liked 727 Times
in
372 Posts
The VO2 work is a good idea. However I'm wondering if the hills are exposing a more basic weakness. As you point out you can sit in the pack with less effort than it takes to climb hills. So the climbing problem may indicate that you're working too close to your limits just to stay in the group on the flats, and when things turn uphill there's no margin left.
Are you doing any LT threshold work? By raising your FTP, you won't always be working at or above FTP, and there will be more margin (i.e. less need to go anerobic) when it gets really hard. So I would also do some long LT work as well (i.e. 5x10 at LTHR, 2x20 at LTHR).
Are you doing any LT threshold work? By raising your FTP, you won't always be working at or above FTP, and there will be more margin (i.e. less need to go anerobic) when it gets really hard. So I would also do some long LT work as well (i.e. 5x10 at LTHR, 2x20 at LTHR).
#15
Gios my baby
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,135
Bikes: Gios 96, Mercier 72, Peugeot 74 X 2, Sears full suspension High rise banana seat, Kona 94, CCM Rambler 70s.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by zvalmart
And the next hilly race you do, be sure to be right near the front at the bottom of the hill so you can "drift" back a bit going up the hill without getting dropped. Every little bit helps.
#16
Gios my baby
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,135
Bikes: Gios 96, Mercier 72, Peugeot 74 X 2, Sears full suspension High rise banana seat, Kona 94, CCM Rambler 70s.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
The VO2 work is a good idea. However I'm wondering if the hills are exposing a more basic weakness. As you point out you can sit in the pack with less effort than it takes to climb hills. So the climbing problem may indicate that you're working too close to your limits just to stay in the group on the flats, and when things turn uphill there's no margin left.
Are you doing any LT threshold work? By raising your FTP, you won't always be working at or above FTP, and there will be more margin (i.e. less need to go anerobic) when it gets really hard. So I would also do some long LT work as well (i.e. 5x10 at LTHR, 2x20 at LTHR).
Are you doing any LT threshold work? By raising your FTP, you won't always be working at or above FTP, and there will be more margin (i.e. less need to go anerobic) when it gets really hard. So I would also do some long LT work as well (i.e. 5x10 at LTHR, 2x20 at LTHR).
This is my big fear. Say I did these longer workouts once a weak. Would that bump me up to the next level of fitness to be able to hang? The catch. I do not have a schedule where I can fit in a work out like that except for one day on the weekend.
#17
starting pistol means war
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 3,150
Bikes: Cervelo R3
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus
I'm a bigger guy, but my VO2 system is my best trained system, and thus I don't get dropped on anything save for truly epic climbs.
Yo Snuffle, even top tier pros feel the droppage now and then. Wait until that first NRC crit or Belgie kermesse. You'll remember real quick what it's like to be pack filler. Cat3's are just a little puppy toys to play with when you finally decide to step up.