NOS88

I wonder if the individual who made the original argument actually knows someone who is so condescending that he or she thinks they are "slumming" if they don't drive a $40,000 + car or dine in $$$$ restaurants? If you know someone like this, it might feel very offensive to hear them say, "I'm going camping to see what it's like to be homeless." On my part, the offense would be a total lack of understanding of what homeless really means. But, this is all conjecture on my part. In terms of any parallel to commuting, I might find it offensive is someone was attempting to show themselves as being a superior person because of their possessions. I don't think anyone likes the experience of others attempting to diminish them. Yet, I see no evidence that bicycle commuting, in and of itself, has any intent to diminish anyone. My experience has been that what people think of me has more to do with the way I treat them than anything else. And even with this being so, I can't control what they think. I routinely interact with people who are homeless. My experience has been that many of them, besides wanting a home and decent life, simply want to be acknowledged as being a person.

arex

I see bicycle commuting as simply a way of getting wherever you're going. Anyone that wants to ascribe some nebulous agenda to it is simply looking to cause trouble...unfortunately, there's plenty of people out there that look for any excuse to get offended and kick up a stink.

jmilleronaire

is crocheting as a hobby offensive? My wife crochets blankets and hats, but we could go buy them instead... (heck, they'd probably cost about the same, with the cost of yarn and all...)

WestMass

I didn't mean to try to speak for anyone or assume that all folks of the same SES would think or feel the same way. I don't think that anyone (I hope) would ride a bike or going camping with the intent that I stated in the beginning. My curiosity is not about INTENT and more about the actions themselves.

I think a few people are getting a little personal on my here - I was just asking people to consider an idea - not asking to be attacked and not trying to attack anyone. Like I said in the beginning - I like bike commuting and camping.

WonderMonkey

I know when I and my family go camping it's because we want to get away from our house and distractions and enjoy the outdoors, usually with another family that we hangout with. Those other reasons you listed are there because someone may not understand that so they inject other reasons into your activity and can't fathom it is for any other reason. If I do an activity like commuting (which I do) for my personal reasons yet I hesitate because I'm concerned with how it may appear then I am contributing with an issue we have in the world. It's allowing other people's views affect what you do when you know you are NOT doing your activity for the reasons they have a concern.

I am on control of my life. I don't allow others to use puppet strings on me.

-=(8)=-

I was a punk kid once. Back in '77 during the first and last real daze of the movement . . .
Given this, Im not sure I would put too much/any thought into what an angry young kid has to say about my lifestyle, or anything for that matter
Ironically, radical car jihadists always think we are bums and losers for not buying into autocentric lifestyle and holding them up from the more important stuff they do.
Go figure

no motor?

Anything that effects people negatively is offensive, whether it's auto traffic that has to wait for someone to get out of their way or the dog walkers who need to keep left on the bike path.

jdswitters

A slightly different perspective from an incident that happened last weekend. It was after work and snowing, I made my usual run through town out to the pub for friday night happy hour with several friends. Typical friday night, and I always ride. When I got there two people in the pub were offended that I rode my bike in snow because they said it was hard enough for drivers to drive an avoid other cars, and I was just being selfish by riding in those conditions by making car drivers have to be extra careful to avoid me.

I was kind of taken aback and thought about it for a while.

1. I had good lights, reflective clothing and the right tires for the conditions, I never slid or felt like I was going to go down. Not my first time riding in snow.
2. I ride like no one can see me anyway, so I had a hard time reconciling that with drivers needing to be extra alert around bicycles.
3. And my final conclusion, if they they feel it is unsafe to drive and share the road then they should have been the ones to stay at home. I like to ride in the snow, I like the quiet sound, the feel because it's so smooth, and the way the world looks from a bicycle seat as the world turns white.

fietsbob

Offensive as in shoot first , ask questions later , ?

...might go to one of those concealed weapons threads, that keep popping up, like Skeet.

I-Like-To-Bike

What movement was "the movement"?

DVC45

Some people just makes pointless assumptions to initiate pointless arguments.

I bike commute because I enjoy it. Some have other reasons, but I don't care.

Some go camping because there are campgrounds.

DVC45

And what were they trying to move?

tjspiel

It's an interesting question not really posed here before (which is unusual) and that is one why reason you've gotten so many replies. I think it's wrong to deliberately or callously flaunt wealth in front of those less fortunate. Could the actions of camping or commuting by bike be considered flaunting your wealth? Under certain circumstances maybe, but generally no.

I-Like-To-Bike

No more so than briskly walking, running or cycling past invalid patients sunning themselves in front of a nursing home.

e0richt

this is useless thinking, it has no purpose and certainly is not actionable, so why ponder it... ? is anyone going to stop those activities because it might offend anyone? is anyone that would be offended by these activities, really interested in your reasoning?

this is basically a waste of time.

alan s 

People who bike commute through less affluent areas on nice bikes are purposely offending the folks who live there. However, it would be OK to drive a nice car through there, or wear nice shoes, but a bike is offensive.

mr.slick

It seems naive to think that cycling/camping is solely masochistic. I enjoy commuting by bike because it gives me the fresh air and blood-flow to start my work day well. I also have a car, and drive to work occasionally.

As a driving-cyclist I always keep a bike rack on my car. Sometimes my friends laugh at me for driving around with an empty bike rack on my car, but I'm not alone. I'm always seeing cars and SUVs with empty bike racks on the back. It's kind of a funny picture—cyclists driving all over the place. I find this pretty ironic but it's understandable. What gets me is when one of these bike-racked SUVs cuts me off on the road. It's happened more than once...not leaving enough shoulder space while passing or pulling a right turn in front of me while I'm clearly visible. I want to say to these guys "I thought we were on the same team!" These are the only cyclists that I find offensive.

AdamDZ

Bike commuting or camping is offensive to poor people? This is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. This is so stupid that I don't even know how to respond to this other than with a giant facepalm.

linus

I like to play "poor" with my Titanium cookset and stove with 900+filled European goose down mummy sleeping bags. Sometimes I add a Kevlar canoe too.

babaluey

The original statement about camping is about the most ridiculous bit of twisted logic I've ever heard. The same would apply to extending it to bike commuting. It's not worth thinking about. Just enjoy your commute.

PatrickGSR94

This. What I personally find more offensive is that ridiculous Tom's Shoes "One Day Without Shoes" event. First of all, it is NOT hard without shoes. If I'm not on the bike or at the office, I go without shoes almost exclusively. Have for nearly 3 years now. It's a great way to keep feet and legs strong and to feel more "connected" with where you're stepping and all that other new-age jazz. To equate going without shoes for a day to the extreme poverty of 3rd world countries is just ridiculously short-sighted IMHO. Plus it's REALLY not hard at all.

As for riding my bike? I couldn't give 2 flips what other people think about me. Which is pretty obvious given that I regularly go barefoot in public.

Andy_K 

There's also a distinctly offensive element in the "camping-as-playing-poor" argument in that it seems to make the assumption that anyone who is poor came to be poor because they had no alternative. The comment locolobo13 made about his parents being "hillbillies from the Ozarks and Ouchitas" made me think about this. My family is from West Virginia and as far back as I've been able to trace (1810 census), I had an ancestor living in a cabin in the exact same part of the Appalachians where my grandfather was born. My grandfather used to tell me stories about his Uncle Virgil getting upset when people tried to put his house on the electric grid. You can probably picture it. Would Uncle Virgil be upset to see people camping? No way! He might not understand why you'd pack up and go home on Sunday though he'd probably be glad to see you go, but he certainly wouldn't think you were mocking him. I realize there are a lot of people who are homeless because of circumstances beyond their control, but that doesn't mean they wish they had a house in the suburbs with a white picket fence.

That said, I think the original question is pretty interesting. My wife took a class recently where they had her reflect on inadvertant classism, and it turns out it's everywhere in most of our lives. As I understand it, my choosing to ride a bike to work when I could be driving a shiny new SUV (or zero emission electric car, if that's your preference) isn't classism. My coming on this forum and suggesting to random people that they should try Schwalbe Marathon Supremes definitely is. If I smile and wave at a guy riding his old department store mountain bike to work because it's his only form of transportation, that is probably OK. If I suggest that he oil his chain once in a while, that's probably not OK. If I pull up beside him and say something like "Great day for a ride, huh?" that's a gray area and could be reasonably interpreted either way.

Also, as in the case of the aforementioned hillbillies, there are a lot of subtleties to be considered. For instance, it may be true that the guy riding that squeaky old Hardrock can't afford a car and "has to" ride a bike, but that may very well be the result of a series of free and well-reasoned choices he's made in life. He may be living exactly the way he wants to live, and there's a very good chance that he sees my shiny new bike with all its expensive accessories and thanks God that he isn't locked into the cycle of work and consumerism that so obviously dominates my life. He may not judge me for it, but he certainly doesn't envy my station in life.

PatrickGSR94

Another thing I find offensive is how some people are so car-centric that they automatically associate an adult riding a bike with either poverty, or having fallen on hard times, bad luck, etc. There was that commercial for a title loan service or something like that, where it showed a woman riding/wobbling along on a big-box store bike, saying "you think I WANT to be riding this bike??" with the premise being that this loan money can help you buy those NECESSITIES, like a car.

PaulH

It's not a hobby; it's transportation.
I started riding a bike to work because it was quicker and more convenient than driving my car. In places where there is plenty of parking and no traffic jams, a car is all you need. Here, you also need a bike.
It's not a statement; it's practicality.

Paul

Drew Eckhardt 

I used to bike commute 1.5 hours a day instead of driving .75 hours 4 days a week which meant I saved 3 hours a week, 150 hours a year, and $15,000 - $30,000 worth of time and $2500 in car costs.

It's a lot harder to become wealthy if you turn down free money like that.