billydonn

I think I read somewhere that these will work with Shimano/Sram 10-speed drivetrain without any special adapters like Travel Agent etc. I'm kind of intrigued... is my information correct please... or should I just stick to Shimano brifters?

If I go into the Veloce, am I just buying in to a PITA?

Drew Eckhardt 

No.

Probably.

SRAM's cable travel is close enough to Campagnolo's for Lenard Zinn to be happy mating a Campagnolo Centaur 10 shifter to an SRAM red rear derailleur+cogs. He measures total pull at 27.9mm from a SRAM lever and 27.0mm for Campagnolo which is about 3% less.

https://velonews.competitor.com/2008/...-why-not_73404

SRAM pulls 3mm for every shift.

Campagnolo 10 speed shifters pull about 2.5mm 5 times, 3mm twice, and 3.5mm twice.

For a Shimano derailleur you'd need a JTek shiftmate. Assuming you got NOS 2010 levers and not current production Powershift levers which work like the Shimano/SRAM escapement mechanism they'd let you shift up to five cogs smaller. Price would be $125 with cables. And they'd weigh less than Dura Ace 7900 levers.

Steve530

I don't think that would work. Read this.

rdtompki

I have Campy Chorus 10-spd brifters on both tandem and single mated to SRAM 10-spd (Exact Actuation) RD. The single uses a Rival mid-cage and the tandem an X.9 long cage. Both shift near perfectly. I might give a slight edge to the Rival due to the shorter cage and the shorter RD cable.

FastJake

They won't work with a Shimano 10S drivetrain, and I wouldn't expect them to work with SRAM, but they definitely work with a Shimano EIGHT speed drivetrain.

I have a set on my road bike and it shifts a Shimano 8S cassette/RD perfectly, the cable pull is the same. Repeating this link because it is well worth reading: https://www.ctc.org.uk/desktopdefault.aspx?tabid=3946

anixi

Campy 10s will work with Shimano 10s only if you use the older, pre-2001, Campy rear derailleur. It's right there in the 2nd chart "Campagnolo & Sram mechs".

DaveSSS 

The shimano/sram drivetrain does not make sense. After those first five cable pulls, you only have 12.5mm of cable pulled, which is a lot closer to the SRAM's shifter pull of 12mm for four pulls, not the 15mm for five pulls. The RD would be off location by most of a cog's spacing.

It's NOT the total or average pull that's important, it's the RD position after each pull. Campy's unequal pulls are not suited to use with a uniform pull RD.

HillRider

Campy 10 brifters will work with Shimano 10 cassettes and either a Shimano or Campy rd if you use the appropriate Jtek Shiftmate. I'm using Campy 10-speed Ergos with a Shimano 10-speed cassette and a Shimano Ultegra rd (RD-6500 9-speed version but it doesn't matter) and a Shiftmate #3 and shifting is perfect, equally good as a different bike with all-Campy 10-speed brifters, cassette and rd.

anixi

Why then did ctc mention Campy 10s with Shimano 10s using the older Campy RD?

Dave Mayer

I have been riding Campy 10-speed shifters with either a Shimano or SRAM 10-speed cassette (same cog spacing) and the older generation Campy derailleurs. These are the derailleurs from 1992 to 2000, after which Campagnolo inexplicably changed their derailleur acutuation ratio. Anyway, this combo works absolutely perfectly. You can do the same trick with 9-speed, which I have riding for the last few weeks. That is, Campy 9-speed Ergopower with a 9-speed Shimano/SRAM cassette and the older Campy RD. Flawless performance.

You can also run Campy 10-speed shifters with a Shimano 8-speed cassette and Shimano rear derailleurs. This is a sensible combination, as the chains and cassettes are cheap. It is also easier to find 8-speed cassettes with a 13-tooth #1 cog (or borrowed from 7-speed), as opposed to the worthless 11 and 12-tooth cogs found in the 10-speed cassettes.

And since, 8 and 9-speed cassettes do not necessarily have the aluminum spider that is required to lock the big cogs together on 10-speed cassettes, you more easily mix 'n match cogs with the older cassettes. I tend to wear out certain cogs; the older cassettes allows me the flexibility to just replace these specific worn cogs that I scavenge from discarded cassettes.

HillRider

I guess that works but good luck finding a Campy rd that old in good condition.

anixi

I have at least three in great shape in my parts bin atm...

Dave Mayer

Embarrased to admit that I have 12. But I've never paid more than about $50 for one (8-speed Record).

Thank God for Ebay. At any one time there are dozens of 8 and early 9-speed Campy derailleurs for sale. No point in asking at a bike shop for these, but then that goes for any product more than a couple of years old.

I do spend too much money on bike stuff - almost all sourced via. Ebay.

IthaDan 

I have a set of veloce 9 speed shifters and derailleurs running a SRAM chain over a shimano cassette.

From what I can gather, only the 9 speed systems are interchangeable like this- you still have to keep the shifters and derailleurs paired by company if you don't want to deal with travel agents/shiftmates.

DaveSSS 

That combination is a relatively poor match, since Campy cog spacing is 4.55mm and Shimano is 4.35mm. There's a lot of over-shifting going on there. Putting a Shimano 10 cassette on a Campy 10 drivetrain creates the same poor match-up, since Campy 10 spacing is 4.15mm and Shimano 10 is 3.95mm.

J-tek makes a shiftmate to cure both mismatches.

HillRider

+100.

Dave Mayer

I have used a 9-speed Shimano cassette on an otherwise full Campy 9-speed drivetrain. It worked fine; I rode this for months. I couldn't detect any difference between the Shimano and a Campy cogsets.

In my experience, 0.2mm error per cog is within acceptable tolerances of indexed shifting, particularly if there is slight overshift.

DaveSSS 

If the error didn't accumulate, it wouldn't be a big deal, but it does, so 8 shifts accumulates to a positioning error of 1.6mm, which is 37% off location. To get decent results, it critical to adjust the RD so the error is split both ways from the center of the cassette.

Dave Mayer

Right. You should set up the rear derailleur so that it is perfectly lined-up with the center cog of the cassette. On a 9-speed cassette, sticking a 9-speed Shimano wheel into a Campy drivetrain would result in 0.8mm of cumulative error on both the top and bottom cogs. But since the derailleur travel is locked out on these cogs by the limit screws, the higest cumulative travel error is actually on the 2nd and 8th cogs, which see an error of only 0.6mm. Or a gnat's pubic hair of distance in the context of indexed shifting.

Don't worry about it - it works fine.

DaveSSS 

.6mm assumes perfect adjustment, that's a PITA to achieve and it's still 15% off on both ends.

anixi

All I needed to do on mine is adjust for the sweet spot in the middle cog in the rear and I've had absolutely no problems riding the bike. It works just fine, and I've avoided the J-Tek thingy at about $50 including shipping. I'm not a racer and don't need super-ridiculously-precise shifting anyway. It really depends on your budget! If you have the extra money and want the best, get the J-Tec. If you're on a budget and are using used/lower-end components anyway, it doesn't make sense (to some of us) to pay for "perfect". No offense intended, just my $.02 from my budget limited world.

onespeedbiker

I ran Campy 10 speed shifters with Shimano 9 derailleur and cassette. This combination is one on the most common used on tandems and is documented on the post shown by FastJack (post #5). It requires re-routing the derailleur cable on Ultegra 9 speed derailleur referred to as Hubbub routing. This combination shifted flawlessly.