AZ News: Tucson warns would-be 'naked bike ride' pedalers
06-09-08, 02:17 PM
#27
One Tough Cookie.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Hartford, CT
Posts: 265
Bikes: Too many and not ENOUGH!
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
miller vs. california set the standard for "obscene material", yes. and that standard was (here's a copy n paste)
1) the “average person, applying contemporary community standards,” finds that it “appeals to the prurient interest”;
2) the work portrays sexual conduct “in a patently offensive way”; and
3) the work “lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value.”
point 3 is the defense here.
1) the “average person, applying contemporary community standards,” finds that it “appeals to the prurient interest”;
2) the work portrays sexual conduct “in a patently offensive way”; and
3) the work “lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value.”
point 3 is the defense here.
In other words, the riders "lucked out" and got away with their actions because the police--and the government officials in Tucson--may well have been afraid of any "bad publicity" and decided that enforcing the law would cause more trouble than it was worth.
__________________
A bad day on the bike is better than a good day at work!!
My discussion board, another resource for the "utility" and commuter cyclist: "Two Wheeled Commuter: The Everyday Cyclist"
A bad day on the bike is better than a good day at work!!
My discussion board, another resource for the "utility" and commuter cyclist: "Two Wheeled Commuter: The Everyday Cyclist"
06-09-08, 02:53 PM
#28
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 294
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
If we let people ride around naked on bikes, next they might want gay marriage, then marriage to animals... It is a slippery slope my friends.
06-09-08, 03:03 PM
#29
Non-Custom Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 1,613
Bikes: 1975-1980 SR road bike
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Point 3 still would not hold since the "work"'s purpose could easily be accomplished without resorting to such "grandstanding" as riding in the nude; a mere group ride to make the point would have been sufficient.
Additionally, one would have the burden to argue that points 1 and 2 were met. 2 is certainly not met, since there is no sexual conduct involved in public nudity, let alone sexual conduct portrayed "offensively". It would also be hard to make the case for point 1, which would be that all the naked cyclist made the average viewers very horny, in a bad way.
06-09-08, 09:01 PM
#30
totally louche
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A land that time forgot
Posts: 18,023
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times
in
9 Posts
those miscreant cops, NOT BUSTING the cyclists!
what kind of worthless waffling is that?
what kind of worthless waffling is that?
06-10-08, 08:43 AM
#31
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: where the mild things roam
Posts: 1,092
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
well, i'm certainly glad that engaging in any potentially unconstitutional behaviour would generate "bad publicity". if the liberty of the citizens of tuscon will not be upheld by a deep and heartfelt commitment to that ideal by the leaders of the city, then i'm glad that at least the public relations department is there to keep them in check.
06-10-08, 01:01 PM
#33
not a role model
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,659
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I'm sure that's what the framers of the Constitution had in mind when they thought about free speech...(Yes Mr. Jefferson thought his wife should go nude in public to protest and it would be protected speech)I'm sure the Justices on the court would not see it that way either.......
06-12-08, 12:57 AM
#34
BF's Level 12 Wizard
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Secret mobile lair
Posts: 1,425
Bikes: Diamondback Sorrento turned Xtracycle commuter
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
you're "sure"? hm. the framers of the constitution had in mind when writing the first amendment protecting people expressing themselves in potentially unpopular ways if that expression pursued a point, be it political, social, religious or artistic. in the same way that exposing minors to michelangelo's statue of david is protected expression because of the piece's artistic merit, so too is this ride because of the event's social and political objective.
whether the city officials in tuscon or the posters on this board find nude riding distasteful or impractical is tertiary. the point is this: the ride is a social and political expression, and it is protected.
whether the city officials in tuscon or the posters on this board find nude riding distasteful or impractical is tertiary. the point is this: the ride is a social and political expression, and it is protected.
Basically there's the vast majority of Tucson, which is family raising and retirement area. There's the university area and then the hippy-artsy area. I live there, I know firsthand.
Social protest requires that the riders play "Lady Godiva on two wheels"? Nice try, but (using sources available to everyone and a bit of logic [I am not an attorney] ), the answer is likely not what one would want to hear:
<snip for space>
Nobody wants to be considered a sex offender toward a minor; the consequences of such a conviction are lifelong and can literally ruin someone's life, even if the conviction were to be overturned later.
<snip for space>
Nobody wants to be considered a sex offender toward a minor; the consequences of such a conviction are lifelong and can literally ruin someone's life, even if the conviction were to be overturned later.
1. We're not here to help or hinder any efforts, just to provide safety and to cork off intersections after your lead stops for reds and intersections.
2. We don't care what you wear, but if someone calls in a complaint we have to arrest anyone who is nude. Misdemeanor if there's no one under 15 involved in the complaint, felony if someone under 15 is involved in the complaint.
It wasn't as big a deal as everyone is making it out to be. There were people lining the streets cheering us on. The blocked traffic cheered us. We even dismounted and went streaking through the opening of an art exhibit for good measure.
There had to have been 70+ riders with about a dozen being nude.
It was civil, peaceful, and yet just rambunctious enough to be a traveling party on wheels.
__________________
Shameless plugs:
Work
Photography
Vanity
Shameless plugs:
Work
Photography
Vanity
Originally Posted by Bklyn
Obviously, the guy's like a 12th level white wizard or something. His mere presence is a danger to mortals.
06-12-08, 01:08 AM
#35
tired
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 5,651
Bikes: Breezer Uptown 8, U frame
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
You're a bad boy, Mr. Fasterr. 
So what's your Arizona Constitution like, Sabre? Here in Oregon, events like WNBR are interpreted by the State Supreme Court to be a form of free speech under the Oregon Constitution, and so the City of Portland would avoid wasting taxpayer money on the lawsuits that would inevitably emerge.
So what's your Arizona Constitution like, Sabre? Here in Oregon, events like WNBR are interpreted by the State Supreme Court to be a form of free speech under the Oregon Constitution, and so the City of Portland would avoid wasting taxpayer money on the lawsuits that would inevitably emerge.
__________________
"Real wars of words are harder to win. They require thought, insight, precision, articulation, knowledge, and experience. They require the humility to admit when you are wrong. They recognize that the dialectic is not about making us look at you, but about us all looking together for the truth."
"Real wars of words are harder to win. They require thought, insight, precision, articulation, knowledge, and experience. They require the humility to admit when you are wrong. They recognize that the dialectic is not about making us look at you, but about us all looking together for the truth."
06-12-08, 08:52 AM
#36
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: where the mild things roam
Posts: 1,092
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
06-12-08, 09:17 AM
#37
BF's Level 12 Wizard
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Secret mobile lair
Posts: 1,425
Bikes: Diamondback Sorrento turned Xtracycle commuter
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
You're a bad boy, Mr. Fasterr.
So what's your Arizona Constitution like, Sabre? Here in Oregon, events like WNBR are interpreted by the State Supreme Court to be a form of free speech under the Oregon Constitution, and so the City of Portland would avoid wasting taxpayer money on the lawsuits that would inevitably emerge.
So what's your Arizona Constitution like, Sabre? Here in Oregon, events like WNBR are interpreted by the State Supreme Court to be a form of free speech under the Oregon Constitution, and so the City of Portland would avoid wasting taxpayer money on the lawsuits that would inevitably emerge.
It's funny, though. Phoenix area of AZ tends to be extremely right-wing and very conservative while Tucson tends to be more left-wing and more moderate. Northern AZ is a smattering what with Northern Arizona University and then the old folks that have taken over Sedona and all the other resort towns up there.
I honestly can't imagine our governor really enforcing those laws. Just a year or two ago she passed a law saying mothers could breastfeed in public in response to someone complaining about indecent exposure of a nursing woman's breast.
Bisbee (hippy town) would be great with a full on naked bike ride, Tucson would be okay, Phoenix would likely not be, Flagstaff most likely be fine.
That close enough to the answer you were looking for, Donna?
__________________
Shameless plugs:
Work
Photography
Vanity
Shameless plugs:
Work
Photography
Vanity
Originally Posted by Bklyn
Obviously, the guy's like a 12th level white wizard or something. His mere presence is a danger to mortals.
06-12-08, 09:52 AM
#38
Safety Zealot
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 183
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
06-12-08, 10:08 AM
#39
tired
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 5,651
Bikes: Breezer Uptown 8, U frame
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Suits me just fine.
__________________
"Real wars of words are harder to win. They require thought, insight, precision, articulation, knowledge, and experience. They require the humility to admit when you are wrong. They recognize that the dialectic is not about making us look at you, but about us all looking together for the truth."
"Real wars of words are harder to win. They require thought, insight, precision, articulation, knowledge, and experience. They require the humility to admit when you are wrong. They recognize that the dialectic is not about making us look at you, but about us all looking together for the truth."
06-12-08, 08:27 PM
#42
Safety Zealot
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 183
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
06-13-08, 06:02 PM
#43
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 107
Bikes: 2007 Bianchi 1885 Veloce, 2003 Specialized Rockhopper, 2006 Rocky Mountain Slayer 50, 2006 Electra Ratrod
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Considering the ride is typically held at midnight, you wouldn't think it would offend anyone. And it is the official Bike Naked day!
06-13-08, 06:57 PM
#44
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Back to basics, does this really promote the idea of bicycling? How does going against a social norm give credence to those of us that want to get more people on two wheels?
By creating such a spectacle, and offending some people do we really get the message across?
By creating such a spectacle, and offending some people do we really get the message across?
06-13-08, 07:13 PM
#45
totally louche
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: A land that time forgot
Posts: 18,023
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times
in
9 Posts
the emperor wears no clothes! (whoops, mixed my metaphors...)
is it really an advocacy ride? i think it is more of a brazen free for all in the spirit of new tribalism.
is it really an advocacy ride? i think it is more of a brazen free for all in the spirit of new tribalism.
06-14-08, 03:44 AM
#47
BF's Level 12 Wizard
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Secret mobile lair
Posts: 1,425
Bikes: Diamondback Sorrento turned Xtracycle commuter
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
+1!
__________________
Shameless plugs:
Work
Photography
Vanity
Shameless plugs:
Work
Photography
Vanity
Originally Posted by Bklyn
Obviously, the guy's like a 12th level white wizard or something. His mere presence is a danger to mortals.
06-14-08, 04:19 AM
#48
Immoderator
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: POS Tennessee
Posts: 7,630
Bikes: Gary Fisher Simple City 8, Litespeed Obed
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
4 Posts
Does anybody but me ever have their jaw drop from just how science-fictiony it is for a bunch of creatures to be this ashamed and horrified by their own bodies?
__________________
Originally Posted by Bikeforums
Your rights end where another poster's feelings begin.
06-14-08, 04:32 AM
#49
BF's Level 12 Wizard
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Secret mobile lair
Posts: 1,425
Bikes: Diamondback Sorrento turned Xtracycle commuter
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Kris, I experience it almost every day as a massage therapist. I think it's really a US cultural thing...but that's a discussion for another day.
__________________
Shameless plugs:
Work
Photography
Vanity
Shameless plugs:
Work
Photography
Vanity
Originally Posted by Bklyn
Obviously, the guy's like a 12th level white wizard or something. His mere presence is a danger to mortals.
